What Cap Badge to wear?

[Future Pensioner]

I have a question that I hope someone can assist me with in regards to what cap badge someone should be wearing.

I belong to a Comm Regt where the pers trained as communicators wear the Communications Branch cap badge.  One of the soldiers, a trained infantry Senior NCO, who has been with us for several years, wears his cap badge and accoutrements from the last infantry regiment he served with.  It has been argued by some that he should not be wearing his last Infantry unit cap badge and accoutrements, as he no longer belongs to them as he is serving with us in a Comm Regt (he actually holds a line serial with us and not his former unit). 

They indicate that he cannot wear the Communications Branch cap badge because he is not a trained signaller.  It is being suggested that he take down his last unit cap badge and wear an Infantry Branch cap badge and accoutrements.

The Dress Regulations seem to indicate that the policy is that he wear his last Infantry unit cap badge:

18. Armour and Infantry Branches

a. All ranks with a regimental affiliation shall wear authorized regimental cap and collar badges regardless of whether regimentally or extra-regimentally employed.
b. New intake officers and recruits of these two branches who have not been assigned to a regiment, as well as certain personnel designated by the branch Advisers, shall wear the branch badges.

The argument is that his regimental affiliation is with the last Infantry unit he belonged to and he is now “extra-regimentally employed” with us in the Comms Regt.  Further, it would appear that the only pers auth to wear the Infantry Branch badges are those who have not yet been assigned to a regiment and pers designated by the branch Advisers (as in b above).

I do not recall ever seeing anyone wearing the Infantry Branch cap badge (except those not yet trained).  In fact, those who serve at any HQ that I have worked at or those who transfer from their unit to the PRL wear the cap badge of the last Infantry Unit they belonged to.

Perhaps it comes down to the definition of “extra regimentally employed”, which I cannot find anywhere (I would appreciate knowing if there is an "official" definition somewhere).

So, can anyone shed any light on what cap badge this person should be wearing? 

Thanks in advance!!

 

[PuckChaser]

Is he extra-regimentally employed (IE: Tasked to the Comm Regt as Arms advisor)?

The reference you brought up is for people posted to other units as advisors. He's also not a new recruit. If he's OTing to Sigs, then he should likely be Infantry branch cap badge until given his jimmy before going on his DP1.

 

[Future Pensioner]

Thanks for the quick reply.

He is not OTing.

If the ref is for "advisors", then should all Inf/Armd pers who leave their unit and go on the PRL for a Class B take down their regimental affliation cap badge and begin wearing the Inf/Armd branch cap badge?

 

[REDinstaller]

In my experience the only pers that wear the Inf or Armd Corps cap badges are pre DP1 or current DP1 students. Once DP1 is complete they are badged to their Regt. What does your RSM say about it?

 

[Michael OLeary]

What is the advantage to having his take down the infantry regiment accoutrements?

If he is not going to OT, but has been accepted on the strength of the unit by the chain of command, they accepted him as an infantry sergeant. If his last unit is ok with him continuing to wear their accoutrements, what harm does it do? Those accoutrements clearly identify him as a trained infantry NCO, which he is.

 

[PuckChaser]

If the ref is for "advisors", then should all Inf/Armd pers who leave their unit and go on the PRL for a Class B take down their regimental affliation cap badge and begin wearing the Inf/Armd branch cap badge?

I've seen it happen for pers on Cl B.

 

[ballz]

"a. All ranks with a regimental affiliation shall wear authorized regimental cap and collar badges regardless of whether regimentally or extra-regimentally employed."

Doesn't get much clearer than that.

What is his position within your comms regiment exactly? Not that I think it matters, just trying to figure out how an Infantry SNCO ends up at a Comms Regiment for "several" years.

 

[Future Pensioner]

Right now he is a Troop Sergeant, but he has served as a Troop Warrant for a few years and as an "go to" guy for all things infantry and IBTS related.

By several years, I mean he has been with us for about 7 years now.  I am not sure why this is coming up all of a sudden since it has not been a problem up until now.

My guess is that they are not understanding what "extra-regimentally employed" means since we do not work like that since we belong to a "branch" in the Comms world and not a Regiment.

I would sure like it if someone had an "official" definition of "extra-regimentally employed".

 

[Ex Ranger Instructor]

I am familiar with a situation where an Infantry WO was employed on a long-term Class B contract outside of his parent regiment.  His parent regiment, apparently unhappy with that state of affairs, demanded their accoutrements back, leaving him to wear the Infantry Corps cap badge.  Months later, the Div Comd happened by for a visit.  He saw the Infantry WO wearing an Infantry Corps cap badge, asked for the story, and was visibly displeased with what he heard.  I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall for the discussions that followed but I wasn't, so I can't report on what happened there.  What I can report is that the Infantry WO in question quietly put his regimental accoutrements back up the next day. 

Whomever is driving this dumb idea ought to take the above as a cautionary tale and/or get a freakin' life in the first place.

 

[OldSolduer]

Is your infantry NCO on strength of your unit ? I know it the Reg Force infantry pers se posted to HQ & Sigs Sqns - or at least they were for D&S Platoon etc.
It sounds. Like someone has a bee in their bonnet over the line position being taken up by and Infantry type.

IMO he retains his Regimental affiliation.

Sorry, I really should have read your opening line!  :facepalm:

 

[cavalryman]

Inf  and Armd pers wear the insignia and accoutrements of their home unit when ERE, unless in designated branch positions (or senior appointments, which is another matter). This isn't even a matter open to discussion.  Anyone telling an Inf or Armd  member to take down his or her regimentals needs remedial training.

 

[ballz]

Inf  and Armd pers wear the insignia and accoutrements of their home unit when ERE, unless in designated branch positions (or senior appointments, which is another matter). This isn't even a matter open to discussion.  Anyone telling an Inf or Armd  member to take down his or her regimentals needs remedial training.

:goodpost:

My guess is that they are not understanding what "extra-regimentally employed" means since we do not work like that since we belong to a "branch" in the Comms world and not a Regiment.

I would sure like it if someone had an "official" definition of "extra-regimentally employed".

If they don't like it, they will just have to try and take his cap badge from him and see how it pans out :threat:

 

[McG]

Inf  and Armd pers wear the insignia and accoutrements of their home unit when ERE ...

"Home unit" is not accurate.  They wear the accouterments of their regiment.  A home unit can change with one's regimental identity changing. I have seen a Vandoo officer posted to a PPCLI battalion; despite his home unit being PPCLI, he remained a Vandoo.

In the scenario posed in this thread, the member's home unit has changed but the member's regiment would not have changed.

It is possible to change regiments, but I am aware of no mechanism that allows a member of infantry or armoured to be stripped of any regimental affiliation with the exception of being promoted to Col or CWO Sr Appt.  This has resulted in rare things such as PPCLI reservists existing as a result of guys releasing into Class B jobs on a PRL, or a reserve staff officer wearing Elgin Regiment insignia after the unit rolled to Engineers because he was ERE and remained armoured.

 

[George Wallace]

My guess is that they are not understanding what "extra-regimentally employed" means since we do not work like that since we belong to a "branch" in the Comms world and not a Regiment.

As a member of the Signals Branch one wears that capbadge, whether they are employed in a Comms unit, a Cbt Arms unit, a RCAF unit, at sea, wherever.  If you went to any unit that is not a Comms unit, and looked around, all the Jimmies are wearing their Signals Branch capbadges on their berets, and Signals Branch collar dogs and Trade patches on their DEUs. 

You have had this all explained to you, with references, and you still seem to be wanting more clarification. 

I would sure like it if someone had an "official" definition of "extra-regimentally employed".

There could not be a simpler explanation than: "they are employed outside of their Regimental Affiliation". 

 

[Ostrozac]

What is his position within your comms regiment exactly? Not that I think it matters, just trying to figure out how an Infantry SNCO ends up at a Comms Regiment for "several" years.

Some Reserve Class B positions, particularly Ops & Trg related ones, are competed as "Any MOSID". I was on RSS at a support unit; my Class B Trg WO was an Infantryman, my Class B CQMS was a Bosun from the NAVRES.

And on the Reg Force side, 21 Electronic Warfare Regiment has (or had, they've reorg'd a few times lately) combat arms personnel posted in -- they retained their parent regimental accoutrements.

 

[Lightguns]

As a member of the Signals Branch one wears that capbadge, whether they are employed in a Comms unit, a Cbt Arms unit, a RCAF unit, at sea, wherever.  If you went to any unit that is not a Comms unit, and looked around, all the Jimmies are wearing their Signals Branch capbadges on their berets, and Signals Branch collar dogs and Trade patches on their DEUs. 

You have had this all explained to you, with references, and you still seem to be wanting more clarification. 



There could not be a simpler explanation than: "they are employed outside of their Regimental Affiliation".

Exactly, some reservist bureaucrat is quickly wrapped around the axle because a position is being held in the unit by "one of them".  Tribal BS, he is an infantry SNCO badged into an infantry unit and remains a member of that unit, regardless of his position, until fully trained in another trade. 

 

[McG]

.. he is an infantry SNCO badged into an infantry unit and remains a member of that unit ...

No.  language matters.  He is not a member of the infantry unit, but he remains a member of the infantry regiment.

 

[Lightguns]

No.  language matters.  He is not a member of the infantry unit, but he remains a member of the infantry regiment.

Ack, concur, you are correct.