Updated Army Service Dress project

[FSTO]

The only criticism I get wearing those pants is that I look too good.

 

[Eaglelord17]

We have sucked roayally in regards to women’s service dress. if the women finally get something made for them I’m all for it. I’ve bought my own pants because the Logistik ones are bloody horrible.

I am of the opinion that there should not be women’s service dress. One standard for all, proper equality. Clothes fitting poorly is a separate issue from having different uniforms based off sex.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

When I was in , I bought myself a nice set of Peter Storm raingear because I couldn't stand the damn CF canary suits. Peter Storm's were Comfy, dry, breathable and you almost couldn't tell the difference from 10 feet away. No one bothered me, but no one else was willing to spend the $$$ (then $350) to get a set.

 

[markppcli]

I am of the opinion that there should not be women’s service dress. One standard for all, proper equality. Clothes fitting poorly is a separate issue from having different uniforms based off sex.

Well we are a species with sexual dimorphism, in a society that has a cultural history of gendered clothing. So on one count we have cultural perceptions, which is why we even have service dress to begin with, to address. We also have the fact that women’s bodies are shaped differently to men’s. Trying to shove everyone into one thing does no one any favours - even if it’s appealing for some kind of culture war win.

Re male vs female clothing this applies to even casual clothing. That’s why men and women tend to take off their shirts with completely differently - anatomy and cultural influences.

 

[RedFive]

Well we are a species with sexual dimorphism, in a society that has a cultural history of gendered clothing. So on one count we have cultural perceptions, which is why we even have service dress to begin with, to address. We also have the fact that women’s bodies are shaped differently to men’s. Trying to shove everyone into one thing does no one any favours - even if it’s appealing for some kind of culture war win.

Re male vs female clothing this applies to even casual clothing. That’s why men and women tend to take off their shirts with completely differently - anatomy and cultural influences.

The RCMP has been through this as well. In 1974 when the first female troops were permitted at Depot, they wore a completely different uniform with a skirt, pumps, white turtle neck and hat. Pistol and handcuffs were carried in a purse in both service and operational dress. It wasn't until 1990 that women were permitted to wear the iconic red serge, stetson, Strathcona boots and breeches.



Currently for mess dress, all members have the option of pants or a skirt.

Even this photo is a little dated as our operational uniform has changed since, and is in the process of changing as we speak. The grey shirt is being replaced by a blue shirt that is similar to CAF OTW shirts, where the portion covered by body armour is moisture wicking fabric, and the collar and sleeves resemble a dress shirt. The shirt will come in female and male "cuts".



In typical federal government procurement fashion, this project has taken nearly a decade between RCMP management stalling and project favoritisms (more than one dinosaur around lamenting the loss of grey shirts), PSPC limitations and the chosen contractor being unable to actually supply the shirts in quantities needed for a full rollout. So we're starting in the smallest divisions on the east coast, and the hope is that in about two years they'll have enough for the entire force.

On the plus side, we stopped trying to force the one size fits all idea on members for pants and boots, and have a BOOTFORGEN type of system where you buy your own and expense them to the Force once a supervisor checks they're actually appropriate.

Now if I could only BOOTFORGEN myself a pistol...

 

[Eaglelord17]

Well we are a species with sexual dimorphism, in a society that has a cultural history of gendered clothing. So on one count we have cultural perceptions, which is why we even have service dress to begin with, to address. We also have the fact that women’s bodies are shaped differently to men’s. Trying to shove everyone into one thing does no one any favours - even if it’s appealing for some kind of culture war win.

Re male vs female clothing this applies to even casual clothing. That’s why men and women tend to take off their shirts with completely differently - anatomy and cultural influences.

One job, one uniform, one standard. We don’t need sexist clothing options because culturally we have a history of gendered clothing. We also have a cultural history of women being forbidden from serving but we pay no mind to that today.

What people wear or do on their own time is their business, but in uniform they should all be in the same outfit at the same time, it is why it is called a uniform.

 

[markppcli]

One job, one uniform, one standard. We don’t need sexist clothing options because culturally we have a history of gendered clothing. We also have a cultural history of women being forbidden from serving but we pay no mind to that today.

Cultural norms matter because we actually want our members to enjoy wearing service dress on some level, to find it comfortable for their bodies, and to think they look professional.. possibly even good.

What people wear or do on their own time is their business, but in uniform they should all be in the same outfit at the same time, it is why it is called a uniform.

Yes our uniforms are filled with individual adjust to reflect the accomplishments of the member, their position, the unit and formation they belong to. Members of units wear different coloured berets, different cap badges, hell some even wear kilts while others do not.

Your argument comes down to “wear one thing because one employer.” However as I’ve pointed out no only does service dress have multitudes of individual distinction built into it, clothing has always been made differently for men and women for both physiological and cultural reasons.

 

[quadrapiper]

Yes our uniforms are filled with individual adjust to reflect the accomplishments of the member, their position, the unit and formation they belong to. Members of units wear different coloured berets, different cap badges, hell some even wear kilts while others do not.

For the sake of pot-stirring, replacing the skirt with a kilt as a member's discretion No. 1/2/3 item would be a very tidy way of canning gender questions.

 

[WestIsle]

The RCMP has been through this as well. In 1974 when the first female troops were permitted at Depot, they wore a completely different uniform with a skirt, pumps, white turtle neck and hat. Pistol and handcuffs were carried in a purse in both service and operational dress. It wasn't until 1990 that women were permitted to wear the iconic red serge, stetson, Strathcona boots and breeches.

View attachment 96033

Currently for mess dress, all members have the option of pants or a skirt.

Even this photo is a little dated as our operational uniform has changed since, and is in the process of changing as we speak. The grey shirt is being replaced by a blue shirt that is similar to CAF OTW shirts, where the portion covered by body armour is moisture wicking fabric, and the collar and sleeves resemble a dress shirt. The shirt will come in female and male "cuts".

View attachment 96034

In typical federal government procurement fashion, this project has taken nearly a decade between RCMP management stalling and project favoritisms (more than one dinosaur around lamenting the loss of grey shirts), PSPC limitations and the chosen contractor being unable to actually supply the shirts in quantities needed for a full rollout. So we're starting in the smallest divisions on the east coast, and the hope is that in about two years they'll have enough for the entire force.

On the plus side, we stopped trying to force the one size fits all idea on members for pants and boots, and have a BOOTFORGEN type of system where you buy your own and expense them to the Force once a supervisor checks they're actually appropriate.

Now if I could only BOOTFORGEN myself a pistol...

The dry cleaners at Depot will be put out of business by this lol