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Offline Bird_Gunner45

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Laser AD weapons
« on: January 08, 2013, 19:55:10 »
Shared with all the normal requirements.

This would be a good start for looking at a future AD shooter capability.  It appears on the outside to meet the requirement of a Canadian produced system, serviceable in Canada (In St. Jean Sur Richelieu), and combats the two main air threats of the future, UAVs and C-RAM, while still at least "appearing" to be able to take down higher level aircraft if required.



Rheinmetall demos laser that can shoot down drones

The laser weapons system can cut through a steel girder
Continue reading the main story
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A laser weapons system that can shoot down two drones at a distance of over a mile has been demonstrated by Rheinmetall Defence.

The German defence firm used the high-energy laser equipment to shoot fast-moving drones at a distance.

The system, which uses two laser weapons, was also used to cut through a steel girder a kilometre away.

The company plans to make the laser weapons system mobile and to integrate automatic cannon.

The 50kW laser weapons system used radar and optical systems to detect and track two incoming drones, the company said. The nose-diving drones were flying at 50 metres per second, and were shot down when they reached a programmed fire sector.


The weapons system was used to shoot drones out of the air
Weather trials
The weapons system locked onto the unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) by using radar for a rough approximation of the location of the targets, then fine-tuned the tracking using an optical system.

The high-energy laser system was used to cut through a 15mm-thick steel girder, and to shoot out of the air a steel ball designed to mimic a mortar round.

The company has tested the laser system in a variety of weather conditions, including snow, sunlight, and rain.

Rheinmetall plans to test its laser weapons mounted on different vehicles and to integrate a 35mm revolver cannon into it.

A number of governments and defence firms are in the process of developing weapons that use or incorporate lasers. For example, Raytheon unveiled a 50kW anti-aircraft laser at the Farnborough Airshow in 2010, and in June 2012 the US Army released details of a weapon that can fire a laser-guided lightning-bolt at a target.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-20944726

Offline Thucydides

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Re: Laser AD weapons
« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2013, 22:14:56 »
The US Navy is also looking for portable laser weapons; in this case a truck mounted 50KW laser that can track and fire on the move. This is much smaller than the 100KW laser weapon they propose for shipborn use:

https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportunity&mode=form&id=78aa13c6683ca57196bc1c15f6a50658&tab=core&_cview=0

Quote
Special Program Announcement for 2013 Office of Naval Research Opportunity: Ground –Based Air Defense Directed Energy On-The-Move
Solicitation Number: 13-SN-0014
Agency: Department of the Navy
Office: Office of Naval Research
Location: ONR

Notice DetailsPackagesInterested Vendors List
Original Synopsis
Mar 28, 2013
2:05 pm
   
Solicitation Number:
13-SN-0014
Notice Type:
Special Notice
Synopsis:
Added: Mar 28, 2013 2:05 pm

Sought by this announcement are potential performers to provide novel subsystems and components in support of the GBAD DE OTM Future Naval Capability (FNC). This FNC will demonstrate a vehicle-mounted on-the-move short-range air-defense laser system to defeat Low Observable/Low Radar Cross Section (LO/LRCS) threats to a Marine Corps Air-Ground Task Force (MAGTF). Shortfalls of the Marine Corps' current low-altitude air-defense program of record have been identified with the advent of new threats, specifically Unmanned Aerial Systems (UASs). Threat UASs may have surveillance weapon payloads. The need for a new expeditionary mobile air-defense weapon with improved effectiveness has been identified. GBAD DE OTM will provide close-in, low-altitude, surface-to-air weapons fire in defense of MAGTF assets against LO/LRCS threats. GBAD DE OTM's mission is to prevent reconnaissance, surveillance, targeting, and engagement of expeditionary forces.

Please consult the list of document viewers if you cannot open a file.

Full Announcement
Type: Other (Draft RFPs/RFIs, Responses to Questions, etc..)
Posted Date: March 28, 2013
13-SN-0014;_28MAR13.pdf (112.73 Kb)
Description: Full Announcement posted 28 MAR 2013.

Contracting Office Address:
CODE ONR-02
875 North Randolph St., Suite 1425
Arlington, Virginia 22203-1995
Primary Point of Contact.:
Frank Kennedy,
Contract Specialist
kennedf@onr.navy.mil

Secondary Point of Contact:
Lee Mastroianni,
Program Officer
lee.mastroianni@navy.mil
Dagny, this is not a battle over material goods. It's a moral crisis, the greatest the world has ever faced and the last. Our age is the climax of centuries of evil. We must put an end to it, once and for all, or perish - we, the men of the mind. It was our own guilt. We produced the wealth of the world - but we let our enemies write its moral code.

Offline Colin P

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Re: Laser AD weapons
« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2013, 11:49:33 »
I suspect the biggest issue once the system kinks are ironed out is storing enough charges to keep firing it. Also wonder about overheating. They may end up in a dual mount system with 2 lasers, allowing 1 to cool as the other one fires. As this system matures it's going to play havoc with anti-ship missiles and will force navies to look at rail guns and high speed torpedo's as the most reliable way to bypass defenses.

By Courtney Kube, NBC News
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/04/08/17658147-navy-unveils-powerful-ship-mounted-laser-weapon

The U.S. Navy announced Monday that it is preparing to deploy a new weapon that can disable a hostile boat and even destroy a surveillance drone overhead — all without dispensing any expensive ammunition.

The Navy released this video showing its new laser weapons system during an exercise at sea. The laser is capable of destroying planes, drones and boats.

It is the Navy's Laser Weapons System (LaWS), a laser mounted on a ship that is so strong it can ignite a drone, sending it crashing and burning to earth in mere moments.

The USS Ponce, an amphibious transport docking ship, will be the first Navy vessel to deploy with the LaWS, officials announced Monday.

The new laser will be installed on the Ponce over the next year and operational in summer 2014. The Ponce is now based in the Fifth Fleet area, which covers the Persian Gulf and the Horn of Africa.
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The LaWS will initially be used to combat small boats that pose a threat to larger U.S. Navy vessels — much like the small Iranian fast boats that pester U.S. ships in the Persian Gulf and Strait of Hormuz.

The Navy plans to use the laser to combat missiles and other threats from the air, to ward off threatening ships and to stop other foreign threats. Eventually the system will be able to stop an incoming missile.

While making the announcement in Maryland today, Chief of Naval Operations Admiral Jonathan Greenert praised the LaWS ability to take out targets at a tiny fraction of the cost of other conventional weapons.

He claimed that the LaWS can shoot down a small drone for about $1 worth of electricity and, once the laser is operational, it should be able to replace a Gatling gun, whose rounds can cost several thousand dollars each.

A defense official also stressed that the laser will not have full capability to take down a larger target for a decade or so.

Despite speculation the laser is deploying to the Fifth Fleet to warn Iran, a U.S. military official says that the real reason it's going to that region is that it is "the hardest environment" the Navy has available to test the new system.

Offline S.M.A.

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HEL laser zaps 150 drones
« Reply #3 on: September 16, 2014, 11:01:40 »
And speaking of laser weapons:

 

Quote
US military's new laser gun zaps drones

"Boeing recently announced that its mobile laser weapon, dubbed the High Energy Laser Mobile Demonstrator (HEL MD), successfully shot down more than 150 drones, rockets and other mock enemy targets in a third round of tests. The trials prove that the laser weapon is reliable and capable of consistently "acquiring, tracking and engaging a variety of targets in different environments," according to Boeing".

Source:

Fox News

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Offline Colin P

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Re: Laser AD weapons
« Reply #4 on: September 16, 2014, 14:15:14 »
Lasers are going to play a big part in defeating the current type of drones, targeting solutions are a tad easier when your part is doing lightspeed. I wonder if next generation drones will have skin designed to reflect lasers? I suspect small tactical drones will still be an issue as they will be cheap and versatile, plus flying very low.

Offline Thucydides

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Re: Laser AD weapons
« Reply #5 on: September 16, 2014, 20:33:59 »
Laser weapons deposit thermal energy on target so hard and fast and on such a small "spot" that mirrored surfaces simply don't help much. You can also imagine trying to keep a mirrored drone or AFV sparkling clean in the field (certain types of Sergeant Major would enjoy this, of course... ;D).

In the ever moving game of offence vs defense, drones and other targets would have to become super cheap and prolific to overwhelm the laser weapon, surround themselves with decoys or other distractions, or become "invisible" to any targeting system using stealth, metamaterials or other means (randomly sweeping the laser beam across the sky in hope of hitting a target would be rather pointless). Alternatively, other ways of doing surveillance and ISTAR without drones could be explored, ways which are less likely to be affected by laser weapons.

In the longer run, I can see these laser systems taking to the sky simply because aircraft would have more room for sensor arrays, larger on board power supplies (look at the difference in power output between a truck engine and the turbine engines of an Apache attack helicopter, for example) and the ability to gain a much better field of fire by moving or changing altitude (or both)
Dagny, this is not a battle over material goods. It's a moral crisis, the greatest the world has ever faced and the last. Our age is the climax of centuries of evil. We must put an end to it, once and for all, or perish - we, the men of the mind. It was our own guilt. We produced the wealth of the world - but we let our enemies write its moral code.

Offline Bird_Gunner45

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Re: Laser AD weapons
« Reply #6 on: September 16, 2014, 23:17:32 »
Laser systems offer great flexibility, particular in engaging small to mini UAS (which represent a significant portion of the future AD threat). The current options, being missile or gun systems, both have significant limitations- missiles are expensive and difficult to use in actually hitting a small target and guns are indiscriminate and difficult to use in close terrain.

Lasers mitigate many of these factors, and can potentially be used in a C-RAM role, another significant capability. If we're smart, we'll be looking hard into these systems for the future GBAMD project, though missiles still have a role (counter aviation).

Offline Thucydides

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Re: Laser AD weapons
« Reply #7 on: September 17, 2014, 22:45:23 »
Lasers will have to be part of an integrated system that includes guns and missiles. Some targets will be dense and "hard"; difficult for lasers to destroy, while others might need to be engaged at extreme ranges (like cruise missiles or tactical ballistic missiles). Laser weapons are also sensitive to atmospheric conditions, dust, haze or moisture (rain, fog etc.) will interfere with the beam, causing it to spread and deposit its energy over a larger area, or absorbing much of the energy (in the worst case causing the dust to "explode" along the beam path).

Lasers backed by high energy electromagnetic rail guns (or coil guns, which use electrical energy to drive the projectile in a different way) seem to be the best combination of 21rst century systems to make a layered defense, but long range missiles like "David's Sling" would also be a good addition to the mix, making SEAD and penetrating the AD screen much more challenging for opponents.

Dagny, this is not a battle over material goods. It's a moral crisis, the greatest the world has ever faced and the last. Our age is the climax of centuries of evil. We must put an end to it, once and for all, or perish - we, the men of the mind. It was our own guilt. We produced the wealth of the world - but we let our enemies write its moral code.

Offline Colin P

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Re: Laser AD weapons
« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2014, 10:20:36 »
Thankfully a "militia laser round" will be more effective than the traditional Militia round. Throw in balloons and cheap RC models for targets and we might be able to afford a Reserve AD component. 

Offline Bird_Gunner45

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Re: Laser AD weapons
« Reply #9 on: September 26, 2014, 20:28:38 »
Thankfully a "militia laser round" will be more effective than the traditional Militia round. Throw in balloons and cheap RC models for targets and we might be able to afford a Reserve AD component.

With the current 4 Artillery Regiment, RCA mistake experiment the AD will require a strong reserve component to force generate for task forces (hard to do a rule of 5 with 1 battery of 3 troops as is the plan). If the intent is to support a deployed BG with a troop, than a 3 troop regular force, 2 regiment (really 2 troops in actual pers) makes sense. If the intent is to support a bde level deployment (and the US says that they will accept a bde minimum for high intensity) than 4 GS will need a HUGE reserve component to support it....

Offline S.M.A.

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China develops anti-drone laser
« Reply #10 on: November 03, 2014, 14:28:40 »
China's answer to the US military's HEL laser posted earlier above:

RIA Novosti

Quote
China Successfully Develops Laser System Able to Shoot Down Drones in Seconds: Reports

China has successfully developed a laser defense system that can shoot down small-scale low flying drones within a two kilometer radius in five seconds, Xinhua news reported.The laser system with its precision, speed and low noise can shoot down drones at an altitude of 500 meters and a speed of 50 meters per second (180 kilometers per hour or 112 miles per hour), the news agency reported on Sunday evening citing a statement published by the China Academy of Engineering Physics.The academy’s statement added that the laser system would be installed in vehicles, aimed at providing heightened security at major events. These include international conferences, sporting events and political meetings.

(...SNIPPED)


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"A leader is best when people barely know he exists, when his work is done, his aim fulfilled, they will say: We did it ourselves."   - Lao Zi (老子)
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Offline S.M.A.

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Laser-equipped USS Ponce deployed to Persian Gulf
« Reply #11 on: November 14, 2014, 17:41:32 »
The laser-equipped USS Ponce is deployed to the Persian Gulf:

Quote
U.S. Navy Deploys Its First Laser Weapon in the Persian Gulf
By Tony Capaccio  Nov 15, 2014 1:17 AM GMT+0900  - Comments  Email  Print

Bloomberg

June 30 (Bloomberg) –- The U.S Navy has developed a brand new weapon that could become the norm for taking down enemy drones and other small vessels. The Laser Weapon System, or LaWS, is the Navy’s next line of defense against anything from Iranian unmanned drones to Somali pirate boats. The system will be installed on the USS Ponce and get tested across the Persian Gulf this summer. While the program is only in the prototype phase now, the weapon could be deployed across the Navy’s fleet by 2017. (Source: Bloomberg)
The U.S. Navy has deployed on a command ship in the Persian Gulf its first laser weapon capable of destroying a target.

The amphibious transport ship USS Ponce has been patrolling with a prototype 30-kilowatt-class Laser Weapon System since late August, according to officials. The laser is mounted facing the bow, and can be fired in several modes -- from a dazzling warning flash to a destructive beam -- and can set a drone or small boat on fire.

The Ponce “provides a unique platform” to deploy the new capability “in an operationally relevant region,” Vice Admiral John Miller, the 5th Fleet commander, said in an e-mailed statement. The ship is the 5th Fleet’s primary command and control afloat staging base for operations

< Edited >

The Navy laser wasn’t specifically designed or deployed to counter Iran’s arsenal of small armed vessels, Chief of Naval Operations Admiral Jonathan Greenert said in an interview earlier this year.

< Edited >

The laser deployment is “a worthwhile experiment” because “it’ll help us feel out the operational limitations” such as power constraints, Frank Kendall, the Pentagon’s top weapons buyer said at a Bloomberg Government breakfast in April.

Testing the Weapon

However, he said, “I still think we have some work to do on the technology side.”

“What am I looking for? How does it operate in that environment -- heat, humidity, dust and at sea,” Greenert said in the interview. “It’s got to roll, move around, how much power does it take to sustain it?”

“I have to take it out and get it wet, and the Arabian Gulf’s a pretty tough environment,” he said.

< Edited >

The lessons from the one-year Ponce deployment will feed Navy laser development by industry teams led by BAE Systems Plc (BAESY), Northrop Grumman Corp. (NOC) and Raytheon Co. (RTN), to field a more powerful weapon, possibly by 2021.

Those efforts are separate from military laser designators to guide precision munitions, non-lethal crowd control devices or discontinued instruments intended to blind enemy electro-optical sensors.

< Edited >

Our Country
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"A leader is best when people barely know he exists, when his work is done, his aim fulfilled, they will say: We did it ourselves."   - Lao Zi (老子)
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"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm."
- Winston Churchill

Offline S.M.A.

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Turkey developing laser weapons
« Reply #12 on: February 14, 2015, 17:24:08 »
Turkey's own home-made laser:

Defense News

Quote
Turkish Indigenous Laser Weapon Advances

ANKARA — Procurement officials have confirmed press reports that Turkish engineers recently successfully tested the first prototype of a laser weapon similar to a US-developed system.

The country eventually aims to develop and manufacture an indigenous high-power laser weapon system that will detect, track and neutralize land, sea and aerial targets, the official said.

"The system will be primarily used against enemy drones, cruise missiles and mortar ammunition," one official familiar with the program said.

In 2013, the Turkish government announced that it planned to develop a precision laser close-in weapon system initially to be installed on the planned next-generation frigates, the TF-2000. The government tasked the state scientific research institute's (TUBITAK) defense and security technologies research and support group, SAVTAG, with the program.

(...SNIPPED)

Our Country
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"A leader is best when people barely know he exists, when his work is done, his aim fulfilled, they will say: We did it ourselves."   - Lao Zi (老子)
-------------------------------------------
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm."
- Winston Churchill

Offline S.M.A.

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Re: Laser AD weapons
« Reply #13 on: March 09, 2015, 11:34:11 »
Lethal lasers in the news:

Fiscal Times

Quote
This Lethal Laser Could Cripple ISIS and Other Enemies
The Fiscal Times

By Maureen Mackey

With their great range and accuracy, laser weapons don’t just destroy things. They can disrupt targets non-lethally, making them increasingly tantalizing to the defense industry.

A powerful fiber-optic laser system in development by Lockheed Martin is showing a lot of promise. In its first field test it disabled a small truck from well over a mile away, the company announced this week. Called ATHENA — short for Advanced Test High Energy Asset — the system is being built to protect military forces and infrastructure.

ATHENA burned through the small truck’s engine with pinpoint precision. The truck wasn’t driving normally but was propped up on a platform with its engine running for the test, Lockheed said. Nonetheless, it’s apparently the highest power documented by a laser weapon of its kind.

(...SNIPPED)

Our Country
--------------------------------
"A leader is best when people barely know he exists, when his work is done, his aim fulfilled, they will say: We did it ourselves."   - Lao Zi (老子)
-------------------------------------------
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm."
- Winston Churchill

Offline Chris Pook

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Re: Laser AD weapons
« Reply #14 on: September 26, 2015, 18:43:27 »
Bump....

Rheinmetall Oerlikon adding Gatling Lasers to their GBAD-CRAM systems.

http://video.dailymail.co.uk/video/bc/rtmp_uds/1418450360/2015/09/24/1418450360_4507256204001_4507238125001.mp4

Contender -

GBAD system

1x Control Centre
2x Radar
2x HEL
4x Millenium 35
1x NASAMS cell

Also a contender for the CSC?

We already have the radar

http://www.defense-aerospace.com/articles-view/release/3/165648/rheinmetall-wins-c$493m-canadian-radar-order.html


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Offline S.M.A.

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Re: Laser AD weapons
« Reply #15 on: February 19, 2016, 12:06:37 »
Cue theme song for all prototypes;D

Navy Recognition

Quote
Rheinmetall and Bundeswehr Conduct Successful Test of HEL Laser Weapon at Sea
     
Rheinmetall and the German Bundewehr have successfully tested a high-energy laser effector installed on a German warship operating on the high seas. To carry out the test, Rheinmetall mounted a 10-kilowatt high-energy laser (HEL) effector on a MLG 27 light naval gun.
   
The test programme included tracking of potential targets, including unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) and very small surface craft. Furthermore, the HEL effector was also tested against stationary targets on land.

(...SNIPPED)
Our Country
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"A leader is best when people barely know he exists, when his work is done, his aim fulfilled, they will say: We did it ourselves."   - Lao Zi (老子)
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"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm."
- Winston Churchill

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Offline Colin P

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Re: Laser AD weapons
« Reply #17 on: October 13, 2016, 10:16:34 »
Yea seen that, wish i had it for my Landrover restorations