Topic: Retro Pay & Allow 1Apr 2014 - 1Apr 2017

[Schindler's Lift]

Probably because most of their civvie jobs make even more.

Agreed.  Even with spec I'd be making about $15-$20 k more a year, not including overtime, if I did the same job civvie side. 

Then again, I'd lose so many of the other perks (travel, mega paid annual and sick leave, slider time, when needed, gym access...) that I'm quite content to serve where I do.

[Eye In The Sky]

If you really want to get your knickers in a wad, go take a look at what Medical/Dental Officer (Specialist) rakes in a month.  Makes spec pay look like a penny on the road.   

[Schindler's Lift]

If you really want to get your knickers in a wad, go take a look at what Medical/Dental Officer (Specialist) rakes in a month.  Makes spec pay look like a penny on the road.   

Actually, it would only bother me if I had to do 8 years of university plus a residency to get my Spec 1 compared to what they get.  I dont begrudge them at all for what they get.

[DAA]

The only thing that actually annoys me working in ADM(Mat) is that while we don't get overtime, shouldn't have to jump through a bunch of hoops to get the short leave at xmas.  My section was rubber stamped, but others were given a blanket denial.  Little thing, but pretty big disatisfier, and another one of the small things that have people looking at second careers already.

Nobody get's overtime, WTF is that?

But my pick up on your post, is the short leave thing.  It's pretty much a given, like old time companies giving your family a turkey for Christmas.  If you are saying that you received short leave (SL), the others in your command didn't, then something could be wrong with that picture.

Mind you, granting of SL, is technically at the discretion of the CO.

[Dimsum]

  and the waterfront during the summer.  Lower Deck.  Stuff like that too!

I'm sure the LD is great.  I just never remember it   

Link to topic:  You will probably spend a lot of your 1 Apr 14 pay increase in said places.

[dapaterson]

So apparently getting five weeks of annual leave after five years of service, (plus two special every Christmas), isn't enough?

Your EN-ENGs start at three weeks; after eight years of service get four, and after eighteen years of service go up to five weeks.  http://www.tbs-sct.gc.ca/pubs_pol/hrpubs/coll_agre/nr/nr01-eng.asp#toc234986625


As for overtime:

It is important to note that the T[otal] C[ompensation] analyses, as applied to the CAF, also provide latitude to determine the dollar value of the unique aspects of CAF service. The most obvious example is the Military Factor, which values the major characteristics of military service. Although the unique aspects of military service such as Code of Service Discipline, separation from family and posting turbulence are not easily quantified, the Military Factor was originally valued at 4% of salary for all non-commissioned members and general service officers. As of April 1, 1999, the Military Factor stands at 7.5% for non-commissioned members and for general service officers. These recent increases were in recognition of a higher operational tempo and resulting increases in the incidence of separation, and a new component (Personal Limitations and Liabilities), which further recognizes the implications inherent in the military system of unlimited liability. Another less obvious example is the fact that CAF members are not eligible for overtime. To adjust for this in the TC analyses, values of 6% of salary for non-commissioned members and 4% of salary for general service officers are used.

http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/caf-community-pay/index.page?

[ballz]

And if subordinates make more than you it likely means that they are in tech trades - and have skills that have been assessed as being valuable.

I suspect this is reflective of most subalterns in non-specialist trades...
Infantry Cpl 3 - 4920/month
Infantry Lt Basic (aka that Cpl's Pl Comd) - Up to 4892/month

Almost all of my subordinates are paid more than me without considering LDA (as was mentioned, it's understandable that they would get more for LDA than I do)

[Dimsum]

I suspect this is reflective of most subalterns in non-specialist trades...
Infantry Cpl 3 - 4920/month
Infantry Lt Basic (aka that Cpl's Pl Comd) - Up to 4892/month

Almost all of my subordinates are paid more than me without considering LDA (as was mentioned, it's understandable that they would get more for LDA than I do)

Same when I was on the MCDVs.  The only person in my dept paid less than me was an AB that was there for the summer.  The jump in pay for Officers is from LT-CAPT.

[dapaterson]

So, we're saying a Cpl with about 8 years in is paid more than a Lt with 3 years in?

But once the Lt becomes a Capt, he's on track to make more than every NCM in the unit, including the RSM (Capt 10 is paid more than CWO (non special appointment) 4).

[opcougar]

You took the words right out of my gob.....and just to add to your brilliant answer, if it was that easy becoming one of those, everybody will be doing it. I mean some people can't even be bothered going to university (I don't mean those where money is an issue)

Actually, it would only bother me if I had to do 8 years of university plus a residency to get my Spec 1 compared to what they get.  I dont begrudge them at all for what they get.

[Bruce Monkhouse]

I mean some people can't even be bothered going to university (I don't mean those where money is an issue)

Just what the f$&% is THAT supposed to mean??

[Eye In The Sky]

You took the words right out of my gob.....and just to add to your brilliant answer, if it was that easy becoming one of those, everybody will be doing it. I mean some people can't even be bothered going to university (I don't mean those where money is an issue)

Sounds like you need a cup of "get the hell over yourself".  I have had subordinates with degrees that couldn't lace boots up correctly.

[Fishbone Jones]

You took the words right out of my gob.....and just to add to your brilliant answer, if it was that easy becoming one of those, everybody will be doing it. I mean some people can't even be bothered going to university (I don't mean those where money is an issue)

It's a long drop off that ivory tower of yours.

[blackberet17]

Foot extraction commencing shortly?

[DAA]

Me thinks, this is going to get interesting.     

[opcougar]

You asked and I'll try to explain myself.....here goes

The point was made about Medical / Dental officer salaries.....now move away from Military for a second and think in Civvie terms. Now if being a dentist and doctor was easy everyone will be doing it and we won't have the doctor shortages we have in the country would we?

My comments were not Military centric, I was simply talking about the professions in general. My latter point about people not even deciding to go to university, is in reference to the usual comments that am sure you've heard...."people with degrees can't get a job, why should I bother" etc

I have staff with degrees, but they've told me that they enjoy what they do, and that is all that matters in life.

So for those that jumped in here with both feet, hopefully this clarifies things for you?

Serenity folks...the rule still applies i.e. when you read something, take a break and come back before you pull the rage trigger

Just what the f$&% is THAT supposed to mean??

[DAA]

You took the words right out of my gob.....and just to add to your brilliant answer, if it was that easy becoming one of those, everybody will be doing it. I mean some people can't even be bothered going to university (I don't mean those where money is an issue)

The point was made about Medical / Dental officer salaries.....

My comments were not Military centric, I was simply talking about the professions in general. My latter point about people not even deciding to go to university, is in reference to the usual comments that am sure you've heard...."people with degrees can't get a job, why should I bother" etc

I have staff with degrees, but they've told me that they enjoy what they do, and that is all that matters in life.

Point noted on the Med/Dent side but then you went on to use the proverbial "wide paint brush" comment which is rather confusing/intriguing to most.  It gives the impression that what you are telling us, is that those who possess higher education (ie; post secondary) are "better" than those who don't.  Hell, if someone said to me "I mean some people can't even be bothered going to university (I don't mean those where money is an issue)" I think anyone who didn't, would be offended by such a remark.

I have had Jr Ranks working for me who had "Masters Degrees".  Didn't make them a "Super NCO" nor did it sell them short.  Higher education is always a good thing but to use it as social measuring stick, been there, seen it and it's an amazing thing to behold.

You seem to put alot of stock in post secondary education........

PS - like a good PhD friend of mine told me one day, higher education may get you through the door but it's what you do afterwards that really counts

[MCG]

.... some people can't even be bothered going to university (I don't mean those where money is an issue)

Some people would rather go to college, equivalent vocational school or an apprenticeship and apply a trade for a living.  I don't see that as any sign of sloth.

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Serenity folks...the rule still applies i.e. when you read something, take a break and come back before you pull the rage trigger

...and I'll say before you talk, or hit send, think about what you are about to say.  Something a Grade 9 drop-out shouldn't have to explain to you.

[blackberet17]

I've got two degrees, and it does not mean in any way shape or form I am any smarter or less smart than any of my NCOs.

Somehow, for the Army, it means I'm officer material. Yay me. But that's a different story for another day. I guess at least I didn't have a rich family member who could buy my commission for me, like was still done about a hundred years ago.

All it really means is I chose one path in life, while a degree-less NCO chose another. His/her life experiences are different than mine, and mine from his/hers. But those experiences frame our collective approach to the jobs we do, the tasks we are assigned, and as long as Commander's intent still being met, who gives a flying sexual encounter?

[Schindler's Lift]

PS - like a good PhD friend of mine told me one day, higher education may get you through the door but it's what you do afterwards that really counts

My sister, also a PhD, said if there was one thing she learned (as an older student)  was that for some people a degree just meant they were educated idiots.

[Fishbone Jones]

Serenity folks...the rule still applies i.e. when you read something, take a break and come back before you pull the rage trigger

No rage, just a simple, point of fact, observation. Also I suggest you look at what time you posted and what time I responded. How much longer of a break would you suggest?

You also know I'm here all the time.

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Now if being a dentist and doctor was easy everyone will be doing it and we won't have the doctor shortages we have in the country would we?

There certainly are no shortages of dentists, and the only reason some areas have a shortage of Doctors is because after sucking at the taxpayer's teat for 8 years they all think they deserve to practice in whatever large city they chose........

[dapaterson]

There certainly are no shortages of dentists, and the only reason some areas have a shortage of Doctors is because after sucking at the taxpayer's teat for 8 years they all think they deserve to practice in whatever large city they chose........

That's not entirely correct.  The medical profession also artificially limits entry to medical school, helping to ensure scarcity, which in turn increases their leverage when seeking money.

[Bruce Monkhouse]

That's not entirely correct.  The medical profession also artificially limits entry to medical school, helping to ensure scarcity, which in turn increases their leverage when seeking money.

True,...thanks for that point.