Author Topic: The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)  (Read 853594 times)

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Offline MilEME09

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Re: The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)
« Reply #2975 on: June 02, 2020, 20:18:38 »
https://news.yahoo.com/amphtml/britains-tempest-fighter-going-leave-084500747.html


So next gen euro fighter will take flight in 2025, and production in 2035. Good thing they dropped out, I wouldn't want to buy a jet that would not be supported in 10 years.
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Offline Drallib

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Re: The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)
« Reply #2976 on: June 03, 2020, 09:23:32 »
The bottom picture is Canadian livery, but the top picture's pair of F35's have a little kangaroo in their roundels: They are ADF planes.

I can't see it that well, but the magazine I have has a leaf. I just assumed the image I found had RCAF roundels. Oops!

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Offline Spencer100

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Re: The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)
« Reply #2977 on: June 03, 2020, 13:06:45 »
https://news.yahoo.com/amphtml/britains-tempest-fighter-going-leave-084500747.html


So next gen euro fighter will take flight in 2025, and production in 2035. Good thing they dropped out, I wouldn't want to buy a jet that would not be supported in 10 years.

I don't understand your comment.

The Tempest is UK project (with maybe Italy) Japan has dropped out of Tempest they were thinking about it.  France, Germany and Spain have a project they are working on (more like arguing about) to replace the Eurofighter. 

Offline MTShaw

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Re: The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)
« Reply #2978 on: June 03, 2020, 14:42:16 »
F-35A with RCAF paint scheme from Canadian Defence Review magazine. Looks good.

https://twitter.com/CDRmagazine/

I doubt the ADF need the parachute system on the back.

Offline Drallib

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Re: The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)
« Reply #2979 on: June 08, 2020, 10:15:58 »
I doubt the ADF need the parachute system on the back.

Is that what that thing is between the vertical stabalizers?!? I always wondered why some had it and some didn't. Thank you! :)
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Offline MilEME09

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Re: The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)
« Reply #2980 on: June 08, 2020, 11:34:36 »
I don't understand your comment.

The Tempest is UK project (with maybe Italy) Japan has dropped out of Tempest they were thinking about it.  France, Germany and Spain have a project they are working on (more like arguing about) to replace the Eurofighter.

Its the sheer fact by the time we get a replacement for the F18, other nations will already be rolling out their next gen prototypes. Due to political failures, and politicians sticking their hands in DND's spending affairs we continue to lag behind, eventually it will cost lives.
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Offline Colin P

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Re: The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)
« Reply #2981 on: June 08, 2020, 13:32:44 »
With the rampant overspending by this current government, our fighter fleet will likley not get replaced, unless the US feels sorry for us and gives us clapped out F-16 from one of the National Guard.

Offline Quirky

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Re: The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)
« Reply #2982 on: June 08, 2020, 14:00:54 »
With the rampant overspending by this current government, our fighter fleet will likley not get replaced, unless the US feels sorry for us and gives us clapped out F-16 from one of the National Guard.

I’d rather have the USAF aircraft base out of Canadian military airfields in Cold Lake and Comox. When Canadians see foreign fighter jets flying over their cities maybe they will wake up over this issue.
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Offline Drallib

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Re: The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)
« Reply #2983 on: June 08, 2020, 14:01:36 »
With the rampant overspending by this current government, our fighter fleet will likley not get replaced, unless the US feels sorry for us and gives us clapped out F-16 from one of the National Guard.

As of now, they want to keep the Hornets operational until 2032.
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Offline MarkOttawa

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Re: The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)
« Reply #2984 on: June 08, 2020, 16:16:23 »
I’d rather have the USAF aircraft base out of Canadian military airfields in Cold Lake and Comox. When Canadians see foreign fighter jets flying over their cities maybe they will wake up over this issue.

I'd add Yellowknife, Bagotville and Goose Bay or Gander.

Mark
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Offline Colin P

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Re: The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)
« Reply #2985 on: June 08, 2020, 18:06:59 »
As of now, they want to keep the Hornets operational until 2032.

Well could market the RCAF at that point as a "Heritage Flight"

Offline MTShaw

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Re: The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)
« Reply #2986 on: June 08, 2020, 20:19:41 »
As of now, they want to keep the Hornets operational until 2032.

Yup. Hence the Super Hornet interim buy.  Now we have to age out f-18c in to F-35

Offline PuckChaser

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Re: The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)
« Reply #2987 on: June 08, 2020, 21:39:15 »
Yup. Hence the Super Hornet interim buy.  Now we have to age out f-18c in to F-35

Lets get real. Super Hornet interim buy was a way to cook the books and buy the SH as the fighter replacement without having to have a competition that it would lose and fulfill a Liberal campaign promise to not buy the F-35. It was never about capability, even the so called "fighter gap" was manufactured to justify the purchase.

Offline Hamish Seggie

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Re: The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)
« Reply #2988 on: June 08, 2020, 23:13:45 »
I’d rather have the USAF aircraft base out of Canadian military airfields in Cold Lake and Comox. When Canadians see foreign fighter jets flying over their cities maybe they will wake up over this issue.

Surely you jest. Most Canadians could give a rat’s a$$ about defence matters.
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Offline Quirky

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Re: The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)
« Reply #2989 on: June 08, 2020, 23:36:11 »
Surely you jest. Most Canadians could give a rat’s a$$ about defence matters.

I digress, when the public hears of “Trumps Air Force” flying over the peaceful tranquility of Vancouver Island and BC, people will lose theirs minds.
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Offline Drallib

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Re: The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)
« Reply #2990 on: June 09, 2020, 07:32:32 »
Yup. Hence the Super Hornet interim buy.  Now we have to age out f-18c in to F-35
Lets get real. Super Hornet interim buy was a way to cook the books and buy the SH as the fighter replacement without having to have a competition that it would lose and fulfill a Liberal campaign promise to not buy the F-35. It was never about capability, even the so called "fighter gap" was manufactured to justify the purchase.

So the "Super Hornet Interim Buy" turned into the "Slightly newer Legacy Hornet Buy"?
"Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends." John 15:13

Offline MTShaw

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Re: The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)
« Reply #2991 on: June 09, 2020, 11:59:23 »
Lets get real. Super Hornet interim buy was a way to cook the books and buy the SH as the fighter replacement without having to have a competition that it would lose and fulfill a Liberal campaign promise to not buy the F-35. It was never about capability, even the so called "fighter gap" was manufactured to justify the purchase.

Perhaps. However, we still needed the newer fighters to keep the Air Force flying until 2032. That’s why we ultimately bought F-18cs from Australia.

But Boeing being a well managed organization decided to throw Bombardier under the bus, and likely lost a 15 billion contract.

Offline Colin P

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Re: The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)
« Reply #2992 on: June 09, 2020, 13:30:34 »
Meanwhile, what some Canadians fantasize about....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKXDrcFRKyY

Offline Hamish Seggie

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Re: The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)
« Reply #2993 on: June 09, 2020, 14:01:04 »
Meanwhile, what some Canadians fantasize about....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKXDrcFRKyY

That dream is dead. Those that want to resurrect it are not of their right minds.
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Offline Colin P

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Re: The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)
« Reply #2994 on: June 09, 2020, 14:12:00 »
The only take away from that is that the F-35 depends on its stealth and networking to win. Eventually that stealth is going to be degraded as opposing systems improve and networking will increase in all fighters, also degrading their edge. With those two degraded enough, can a small number F-35 survive when unsupported and with only their internal weapons onboard?

I personally think the F-35 brings a lot to the fight for small airforces without their own AWACs. However they do it at a cost in manoeuvrability, loadout and speed. It does make sense to have the F-35s work in tandem with a fighter built to fight/speed/loadout and stealth a secondary concern. That means that you are future proofing your fighter force for longer. Throw in a Growler type aircraft as well, and you have a very potent mix.

Offline Dana381

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Re: The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)
« Reply #2995 on: June 09, 2020, 14:44:27 »
I personally think the F-35 brings a lot to the fight for small airforces without their own AWACs. However they do it at a cost in manoeuvrability, loadout and speed. It does make sense to have the F-35s work in tandem with a fighter built to fight/speed/loadout and stealth a secondary concern. That means that you are future proofing your fighter force for longer. Throw in a Growler type aircraft as well, and you have a very potent mix.

Isn't the F-35 already able to do most of what a growler can and are they not developing pods to do the rest?

Offline Colin P

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Re: The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)
« Reply #2996 on: June 10, 2020, 01:02:46 »
I don't recall the USN saying the F35C will replace the Growlers, which to my understanding can do both active and passive EW, so listening to enemy emissions and also jamming. I don't think the F-35 can do that, but can detect and provide targeting information prior to being detected itself. Not my field of expertise and someone will likely fill us in more. However the real abilities of both aircraft are classified.

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)
« Reply #2997 on: June 10, 2020, 08:08:09 »
I’d rather have the USAF aircraft base out of Canadian military airfields in Cold Lake and Comox. When Canadians see foreign fighter jets flying over their cities maybe they will wake up over this issue.

They wouldn't know the difference, I don't think. 
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Offline Hamish Seggie

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Re: The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)
« Reply #2998 on: June 10, 2020, 08:10:44 »
They wouldn't know the difference, I don't think.

You, sir are correct. And the average Canadian has no clue about defence matters nor do they care, until their property is flooded or near burning down or ravage by an ice storm. Or in the case of Toronto - need their driveway shovelled.
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Offline Good2Golf

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Re: The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)
« Reply #2999 on: June 10, 2020, 10:17:51 »
I don't recall the USN saying the F35C will replace the Growlers, which to my understanding can do both active and passive EW, so listening to enemy emissions and also jamming. I don't think the F-35 can do that, but can detect and provide targeting information prior to being detected itself. Not my field of expertise and someone will likely fill us in more. However the real abilities of both aircraft are classified.

Colin, search for AN/ASQ-239 capabilities.  Impressive passive and active EW capability For the F-35. It’s truly state of the art.

The Growler’s EW Suite is impressive enough, especially in its power, but there’s really not much more (if at all) that the AN/ALQ-218 receiver can do  that the 239 couldn’t (the 218 is an evolutional design of the E-6B Prowler’s legacy system, vice the quantum design advancement the 239 is) and the AN/ALQ-99 (albeit the E version) is still a hammer-like jammer first flown in the early-70s.

The Growler really is, for the most part, a re-platforming of the Prowler’s mission system onto a newer/faster aircraft, with some version updates.

The fact that the ASQ-239 lets the F-35...any F-35, integrate passively and when required actively, into the EM battlespace is under-appreciated.

:2c:

Regards
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