Author Topic: VAdm Norman - Supply Ship contract: Legal fight  (Read 202480 times)

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Offline Chris Pook

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Re: VAdm Norman - Supply Ship contract: Legal fight
« Reply #900 on: May 10, 2019, 19:43:42 »
"Wyrd bið ful aræd"

Offline kratz

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Offline Cloud Cover

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Re: VAdm Norman - Supply Ship contract: Legal fight
« Reply #902 on: May 10, 2019, 23:09:51 »
The highest standards of ethics are displayed throughout this drama, include but not limited to:

- Values and Ethics Code for the Public Sector;
- Open and accountable Government;
- Values and Ethics Code of the Department of Justice
- DND and CF Code of Values and Ethics;
- Canadian Association of Journalists - Ethics
- Ethics Commissioner
- Governance Model for Values and Ethics:  Ethics and Integrity Program

And more…

All of which are a bridge too far.  While I do support due process for the Admiral, and i do believe it was interfered with and orchestrated, this was not a whole of government failure or conspiracy.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2019, 23:21:42 by Cloud Cover »
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Online Brad Sallows

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Re: VAdm Norman - Supply Ship contract: Legal fight
« Reply #903 on: May 11, 2019, 10:54:17 »
This isn't something that can be thrown back on the previous government, but I see some people have really got the bit in to try and cast blame there.

What's remarkable to me is the incurious approach taken by investigators and the press.
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Offline Halifax Tar

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Re: VAdm Norman - Supply Ship contract: Legal fight
« Reply #904 on: May 11, 2019, 11:36:07 »
This isn't something that can be thrown back on the previous government, but I see some people have really got the bit in to try and cast blame there.

What's remarkable to me is the incurious approach taken by investigators and the press.

Isn't that SOP now ?  When in doubt blame the previous government.

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Offline E.R. Campbell

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Re: VAdm Norman - Supply Ship contract: Legal fight
« Reply #905 on: May 11, 2019, 16:41:13 »
Isn't that SOP now ?  When in doubt blame the previous government.


Are you all familiar with the 'three envelopes' story?

LCol X took command of the 3rd Royal Geffufian Underground Fusiliers from LCol Y. There was a fine parade and a nice reception and after all that the two walked back tot he RHQ building so that LCol Y could pick up a couple of things from the office before the change of command mess dinner. When they got to the office LCol Y put his diary and calendar in his briefcase and then he handed LCol X three envelopes, marked 1, 2 and 3.

"Look, my friend," LCol Y said: "command of this regiment is wonderful but, trust me, something will go wrong and you'll find yourself on the wrong end of a one-sided conversation with the commander. When that happens," he said, "open these envelopes in the order, 1,2 and then 3."

Well, after a few months that one-sided conversation did happen and LCol X remembered the envelopes LCol Y had given him and he pulled them out of his desk drawer and opened No. 1. "Blame me," it said ... "one can always blame his predecessor for leaving things in a muddle." LCol X did that and the commander seemed mollified.

Regimental command was, indeed, wonderful and it was many months before the commander, once again in high dudgeon, called for the second time. LCol X remembered how well envelope 1 had worked and he opened #2. "Reorganize," it said. He explained to the commander that he needed to reorganize to cope with the ever-changing demands of modern warfare and, once again, the commander seemed satisfied.

Of course, since we have three envelopes in this story we need a third phone call ... it came and LCol X, confidently, opened envelope #3 ...
.
.
.
.
.
"Prepare 3 envelopes" was all it said.
 
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Offline FSTO

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Re: VAdm Norman - Supply Ship contract: Legal fight
« Reply #906 on: May 12, 2019, 14:46:13 »
So the MND was on CTV Question Period today.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/video?clipId=1681735

I'll keep my opinions to myself, but I'm posting this so that folks can make up their own mind on what came out of his mouth.

All I'll say is that the Liberals have their talking points down tight.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2019, 15:13:54 by FSTO »

Offline Petard

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Re: VAdm Norman - Supply Ship contract: Legal fight
« Reply #907 on: May 12, 2019, 16:12:43 »
MND waffled, answering questions unasked, which should be no surprise

I think they covered it pretty well during the scrum later that involved Peter McKay

Offline Haggis

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Re: VAdm Norman - Supply Ship contract: Legal fight
« Reply #908 on: May 12, 2019, 17:18:16 »
Today on Global's The West Block, Public Services and Procurement Minister Carla Qualtrough commented on Trudeau's foretelling of the outcome of the RCMP's investigation into the former VCDS on two occasions.  It's important to note that these predictions that the VAdm's case would inevitably got to trial are evidence of political interference from his office long before he put pressure on the former AG to influence the outcome of the SNC-Lavalin case.

A good question was asked by the journalist:  In a town with more leaks than the Titanic, why was the hunt for the source of this particular leak so fervent?
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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: VAdm Norman - Supply Ship contract: Legal fight
« Reply #909 on: May 12, 2019, 17:41:08 »
MND waffled, answering questions unasked, which should be no surprise


Yea that was embarrassing to watch. Poor guy.
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Offline Cloud Cover

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Re: VAdm Norman - Supply Ship contract: Legal fight
« Reply #910 on: May 12, 2019, 18:12:25 »
Yea that was embarrassing to watch. Poor guy.
Follow the Process. Respect Independence of Investigation. Support the Decision of General Vance.
Remove slime, rinse and repeat.
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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: VAdm Norman - Supply Ship contract: Legal fight
« Reply #911 on: May 12, 2019, 18:54:00 »
Follow the Process. Respect Independence of Investigation. Support the Decision of General Vance.
Remove slime, rinse and repeat.

I like that reporter.
"You treated him guilty from the start without a trial, hurt his family and his reputation. The government apologizes to everyone, why can't you apologize to him?"
"waffle waffle waffle".
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Offline Haggis

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Re: VAdm Norman - Supply Ship contract: Legal fight
« Reply #912 on: May 13, 2019, 09:03:28 »
"You treated him guilty from the start without a trial, hurt his family and his reputation. The government apologizes to everyone, why can't you apologize to him?"

The PM is well rumoured to have a temper with anyone who crosses him (e.g. JWR).  I'm sure the stay of proceedings in this case didn't make him happy at all. The PM never apologized to JWR so to expect anyone in his government to apologize to VAdm Norman is disingenuous.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2019, 09:13:17 by Haggis »
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Offline Hamish Seggie

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Re: VAdm Norman - Supply Ship contract: Legal fight
« Reply #913 on: May 13, 2019, 10:46:39 »
The PM is well rumoured to have a temper with anyone who crosses him (e.g. JWR).  I'm sure the stay of proceedings in this case didn't make him happy at all. The PM never apologized to JWR so to expect anyone in his government to apologize to VAdm Norman is disingenuous.

A “temper” is an understatement. This is the kid that got stuffed in the locker in high school.
We’re led (not well) by the equivalent of one of those hereditary kings who wasn’t the pick of the litter but gained power only because he was the oldest. A spoiled brat who has never been told he’s wrong or heard the word “no”.

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Offline Remius

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Re: VAdm Norman - Supply Ship contract: Legal fight
« Reply #914 on: May 13, 2019, 10:55:56 »

Joffrey Baratheon?
Optio

Offline Hamish Seggie

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Re: VAdm Norman - Supply Ship contract: Legal fight
« Reply #915 on: May 13, 2019, 11:01:38 »
Joffrey Baratheon?

Good analogy. Thank you.
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Online Colin P

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Re: VAdm Norman - Supply Ship contract: Legal fight
« Reply #916 on: May 13, 2019, 14:55:45 »
Where is a Stark when we need one?

Offline tomydoom

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Re: VAdm Norman - Supply Ship contract: Legal fight
« Reply #917 on: May 13, 2019, 15:11:49 »
Where is a Stark when we need one?
Edard lost his head, so maybe Tony would be a better Stark


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Offline Remius

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Re: VAdm Norman - Supply Ship contract: Legal fight
« Reply #918 on: May 13, 2019, 15:21:50 »
Spoiler alert.

Lady Olenna Tyrell is the one who did away with Joffrey...that is likely what you need instead of a Stark.  Most of the Starks get themselves killed or crippled.
Optio

Offline Cloud Cover

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Re: VAdm Norman - Supply Ship contract: Legal fight
« Reply #919 on: May 13, 2019, 21:50:25 »
This guy is on crack: https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-theres-no-evidence-liberals-interfered-in-mark-norman-prosecution/?utm_medium=Referrer:+Social+Network+/+Media&utm_campaign=Shared+Web+Article+Links

<SNIP
"But the facts do not support that allegation. As much as this might disappoint their critics, there is no evidence the Liberals interfered in the Norman prosecution.

The government did ask police to investigate the leak of a cabinet decision concerning a supply vessel from the Davie shipyard in Quebec.

The RCMP investigation led to a charge of breach of trust against Vice-Adm. Norman. That charge was stayed last week, more than two years after Vice-Adm. Norman was first suspended from the navy. He has suffered greatly as a result of this ordeal and deserves restitution.

But there is no evidence the government pushed the office of the director of public prosecutions to lay the charge. Quite the opposite.

In the recording of the Dec. 19 phone call between Jody Wilson-Raybould and Michael Wernick over the SNC-Lavalin affair, the former attorney-general warned the former clerk of the Privy Council that Mr. Trudeau is “interfering with one of our fundamental institutions,” and “breaching a constitutional principle of prosecutorial independence,” by trying to intervene in the case.

We can stand up in the House of Commons on Norman on – totally appropriately on Norman – on extradition, and we can talk about the rule of law,” she states. “The cases are not dissimilar.” (“Extradition” refers to the detaining of Huawei executive Meng Wanzhou, which Canada maintains it was bound to do under an extradition treaty with the United States.)"  END SNIP>

In fact, it transpired after that call that the lawyers at the PMO did in fact meet with lawyers from PPSC, and they did in fact make suggestions and demands to "engineer the outcome" and in fact they did this without informing the AG.  All of this information was in the Crown disclosure in February*.

I'm not sure what Ibbitson is thinking here, this is not his first rodeo either....


*
Norman's defence accuses Trudeau PMO of attempting to direct prosecution
<SNIP
"The prosecution should not be discussing trial strategy with the Prime Minister's Office's right-hand person," she said, referring to the PCO legal counsel.

"By all appearances, this is a more direct influencing of the prosecution. The attorney general is entirely bypassed. The Prime Minister's Office, via its right arm the PCO, is dealing directly with the (Public Prosecution Service of Canada). And the prosecution service is allowing this to happen."

That prompted a cutting remark from the judge hearing Norman's case.

"So much for the independence of the PPSC," said Judge Heather Perkins-McVey."   END SNIP>

Source: https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/mark-norman-davie-shipyard-breach-trust-1.5014538
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Offline Good2Golf

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Re: VAdm Norman - Supply Ship contract: Legal fight
« Reply #920 on: May 13, 2019, 22:00:39 »
This guy is on crack: https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-theres-no-evidence-liberals-interfered-in-mark-norman-prosecution/?utm_medium=Referrer:+Social+Network+/+Media&utm_campaign=Shared+Web+Article+Links

<SNIP
But there is no evidence the government pushed the office of the director of public prosecutions to lay the charge. Quite the opposite.

Well, other than that time...no, make that...two times...that the PM pre-saged that the Norman issue would be dealt with in the Courts...even before the Vice-Admiral was charged.

You know, independence of the prosecutorial system, et al.

Regards
G2G

Offline Baden Guy

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Re: VAdm Norman - Supply Ship contract: Legal fight
« Reply #921 on: May 14, 2019, 08:29:44 »
Norman was told by Harper cabinet to talk to Quebec shipyard about leasing deal

'Mark Norman was acting ... with cabinet authority,' says ex-defence minister Peter MacKay
Vice-Admiral Mark Norman not only had the blessing of the former Conservative cabinet to deal with a Quebec shipyard, he was authorized to speak with it directly in the run-up to the signing of a $668-million leasing contract, CBC News has learned.

The revelation raises further questions about the handling of the RCMP's investigation into allegations that the military's former second-in-command leaked sensitive cabinet information about the contract.

It also peels back the curtain on some of the thinking that may have gone into the Crown's decision to stay the single breach-of-trust charge against Norman, who at one time commanded the Royal Canadian Navy.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/mark-norman-supply-ship-davie-harper-mackay-1.5134548


Offline Bruce Monkhouse

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Re: VAdm Norman - Supply Ship contract: Legal fight
« Reply #922 on: May 14, 2019, 09:56:47 »
Is somebody high up in the RCMP taking a political bribe here while throwing his investigators under the bus?  Really, the RCMP, with how many folks working on this case,  didn't think of asking the sitting cabinet members at the time the contract was awarded any questions?   
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Re: VAdm Norman - Supply Ship contract: Legal fight
« Reply #923 on: May 14, 2019, 11:06:00 »
Is somebody high up in the RCMP taking a political bribe here while throwing his investigators under the bus?  Really, the RCMP, with how many folks working on this case,  didn't think of asking the sitting cabinet members at the time the contract was awarded any questions?   

There is massive speculation out there on social media that puts the liberal appointed commissioner right in trudeau's pocket. I don't know, just sayin' from what I've seen.
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Offline Monsoon

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Re: VAdm Norman - Supply Ship contract: Legal fight
« Reply #924 on: May 14, 2019, 12:18:19 »
There is massive speculation out there on social media that puts the liberal appointed commissioner right in trudeau's pocket. I don't know, just sayin' from what I've seen.
The investigation and referral for charges happened under Bob Paulson, who was a Harper appointee. The issue seems to have been that the RCMP were only given one name to investigate by PCO out of the 72 PCO knew to have been able to leak the information. That’s where the political interference took place.