Author Topic: UK Clothing and Equipment of the Infantry compared with CA  (Read 8188 times)

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Offline Loachman

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Re: UK Clothing and Equipment of the Infantry compared with CA
« Reply #25 on: May 28, 2017, 18:14:35 »
I kinda thought the abbreviations I used were fairly straight forward..

No, they're not. We could sling a bunch of ours at you to prove my point, but you'll encounter many of them during your reading anyway. Some you'll be able to figure out, even if you can't quite decipher each letter, but you'll likely need to ask about some. I cannot even guess what "UBAC" stands for, for example, but, from your description, yes, we have a similar shirt (as have many other Armed Forces).

Some identical abbreviations have different meanings in different parts of the CF, or in the government at large.

Terminology should never be assumed to be the same between different Armed Forces and different nations, either, even the English-speaking ones; it never hurts to use plain English rather than slang or jargon, or use slang or jargon and offer a plain-English translation thereafter.

Damn, you're nails you are, someday I hope to be as ally as you are! I assume you can only achieve this from years as a ponti rupert, that or an absolute plank.

I await Jarnhamar's response, but he is neither a "ponti rupert" nor an "absolute plank" (or even a partial one).

Anyway, back on topic - we have better rifles.

Offline Jack0800

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Re: UK Clothing and Equipment of the Infantry compared with CA
« Reply #26 on: May 28, 2017, 18:20:14 »
No, they're not. We could sling a bunch of ours at you to prove my point, but you'll encounter many of them during your reading anyway. Some you'll be able to figure out, even if you can't quite decipher each letter, but you'll likely need to ask about some. I cannot even guess what "UBAC" stands for, for example, but, from your description, yes, we have a similar shirt (as have many other Armed Forces).

Some identical abbreviations have different meanings in different parts of the CF, or in the government at large.

Terminology should never be assumed to be the same between different Armed Forces and different nations, either, even the English-speaking ones; it never hurts to use plain English rather than slang or jargon, or use slang or jargon and offer a plain-English translation thereafter.

I await Jarnhamar's response, but he is neither a "ponti rupert" nor an "absolute plank" (or even a partial one).

Anyway, back on topic - we have better rifles.
I couldn't tell you what UBAC stood for either, but I knew thats what its called in the US mil and the European armies I've encountered who use them.

For curiosity, would you mind flinging some acronyms and slang at me? Would be an interesting read to figure out.

And I'm sure Jarnhamar is of course not a Ponti, he may be a rupert, and I haven't a clue of his plankiness.

I've had conversations where the same acronym / abbreviation has been used multiple times, each referring to a completely different thing, its all on context and usage.

Offline mariomike

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Re: UK Clothing and Equipment of the Infantry compared with CA
« Reply #27 on: May 28, 2017, 18:23:02 »
( UBAC ) Under Body Armour Combat?

Offline Jack0800

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Re: UK Clothing and Equipment of the Infantry compared with CA
« Reply #28 on: May 28, 2017, 18:24:26 »
( UBAC ) Under Body Armour Combat?
Thats the one.

I believe correct is UBACS, which makes it a Under Body Armour Combat Shirt, which is actually a pretty good acronym for once!

Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: UK Clothing and Equipment of the Infantry compared with CA
« Reply #29 on: May 28, 2017, 18:33:56 »
Ya they call our rifles muskets. The brits we're on ex with are top notch (again).   Kit seems great (looks like they're not afraid to buy expensive boots), good physical fitness and seem to have their drills down to a reflex. Their reaction time is pretty phenomenal IMO.

Of course on this ex when our own Canadian soldiers are "doing too well"  the CMTC goons kill us because us kicking *** doesnt jive with their senarios. (seriously).

JWJ I'm a little confused by your original post here, maybe I'm just daft. Are you saying you're looking at applying to the Canadian infantry and you're presently UK infantry? Or are you looking at joining up over there and wondering what kit we use?   Maybe I'm just reading you wrong but to me you sounded like you're trying hard  to play the part of something, just not sure what yet?  Sorry if I'm off the mark(really).

Would be great to see pictures of your vest and armor you're talking about as I'm a bit of a kit explititive myself.

« Last Edit: May 28, 2017, 18:37:36 by Jarnhamar »
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Offline TheMattHan

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Re: UK Clothing and Equipment of the Infantry compared with CA
« Reply #30 on: May 28, 2017, 18:38:03 »
First Photo is of the ECU, He is also wearing the issued TV which is static and holds 4 Magazines, one box of c9 ammo, a canteen, two smoke grenades, two frag grenades, two small pockets and that's it. The current issue frag vest. The gloves are known as combat gloves and are an all leather glove with no reinforcing. As for boots you will be given 2 pairs of the like 6 different types we have based on what they have laying around. The two pictures are of the most "current" pairs.
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Offline Jack0800

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Re: UK Clothing and Equipment of the Infantry compared with CA
« Reply #31 on: May 28, 2017, 18:59:22 »
Ya they call our rifles muskets. The brits we're on ex with are top notch (again).   Kit seems great (looks like they're not afraid to buy expensive boots), good physical fitness and seem to have their drills down to a reflex. Their reaction time is pretty phenomenal IMO.

Of course on this ex when our own Canadian soldiers are "doing too well"  the CMTC goons kill us because us kicking *** doesnt jive with their senarios. (seriously).

JWJ I'm a little confused by your original post here, maybe I'm just daft. Are you saying you're looking at applying to the Canadian infantry and you're presently UK infantry? Or are you looking at joining up over there and wondering what kit we use?   Maybe I'm just reading you wrong but to me you sound like you're trying hard  to play the part of something, just not sure what yet?  Sorry if I'm off the mark.

Would be great to see pictures of your vest and armor your talking about as I'm a bit of a kit explititive myself.

I'm looking at coming over to Canadian Infantry, looking at the standards of kit and equipment you guys have as its a major factor for me as I want to be a professional soldier, although of course if I'm given x and told to use it, I'll use it; but if allowed to buy my own gear, I'll be like a kid in a candy store aha.

I haven't re-read my posts my self, so I could have completely mis-wrote half of what I'm saying, so apologies if I've given off an impression like you've pointed out, baring in mind I'm 5 hours infront of you and I'm not the best at concisely writting at the best of times!

The biggest thing about the UK forces is personal skills and self-reliance. Whilst you're trained teamwork, your role in the section and everything about looking after your oppo etc, you're trained to do the job of the person above you without being told to do so and think on your feet. That extends to kit and personal admin, if you are uncomfortable with that webbing, or think this chest rig will allow you do to your job better, then its up to you to sort it out. Boots is one thing you won't find any pointy-end soldier skimping out on, and the boots issued in training are, in my opinion, up to standard anyway - showing the MoD's attitude is the same. Haix, Lowas and sometimes Altbergs are issued and I would be happy to wear any of them - infact I've used a pair of Haix Tibets daily for the last 2 years, in college and on exercises, even walked 2 Nijmegens in them and recently completed the Para's 10 in them, even though they're heavy as lead they've left me no complaints.

I assume the reason they would take the mick out of C7s would be their length, and whilst I do love the L85A2 (I hope you get a chance to get yours hands on it), and bullpup designs; theres a reason why UK SF, SFSG (Special Forces Support Group - RMs and Paras mainly) and 43 Cdo use C8s (albeit C8 SFWs and C8 CQBs). Infact you can see a SF operator with a C8 CQB during a CT raid with Police in the fallout from the Manchester attack.

I'll attach some images of the current armour in use, both Osprey and Virtus as not all units are outfitted with Virtus yet, and the Webbing. The webbing, for a decent set by say Pilgrim, can easily cost over £400 ($700). However, despite personal kit being allowed, if you rocked up to your unit straight from Catterick or your basic training with all gucci gear, I'd expect to have a nice talking to from everyone from my Platoon Sergeant down to my Lance Corporal.

Attachments:
1st is a look at Virtus Plate carrier, notice how compact and lightweight it is
2nd is a look at MTP (Multi-Terrain Pattern) Webbing
3rd is a set of webbing with labels on the pouches for an idea of whats carried
5th is old Osprey Mk IV, note the MOLLE attachment points and the extra bits you can remove, like neck protection, arm protection etc.

Offline Jack0800

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Re: UK Clothing and Equipment of the Infantry compared with CA
« Reply #32 on: May 28, 2017, 19:09:31 »
First Photo is of the ECU, He is also wearing the issued TV which is static and holds 4 Magazines, one box of c9 ammo, a canteen, two smoke grenades, two frag grenades, two small pockets and that's it. The current issue frag vest. The gloves are known as combat gloves and are an all leather glove with no reinforcing. As for boots you will be given 2 pairs of the like 6 different types we have based on what they have laying around. The two pictures are of the most "current" pairs.

Whats your opinion on the clothing, and the vest? Is 4 magazines standard? Atleast 6 Magazines in your webbing is the lowest you'll find in the UK with more round in assault pack/bergen, some blokes would carry way way more than 6 as well.

Is it comfortable to do section drills in? I know nothing is actually waterproof but will I get soaked every time I lay down in a wet meadow, for example. How tough is the materials on the issue stuff?

First image is a pic of the boots I wear, HAIX Tibets.
Second is an example of whats issued in training, HAIX Cold Wet Weathers - absolutely superb boots, extremely padded, comfortable and warm. Not once have my feet got wet in them. Only issue is, they're black boots dyed brown, so when you scruff them, the black comes through and wont polish out, have to get them re-dyed at own expense.

Offline mariomike

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Re: UK Clothing and Equipment of the Infantry compared with CA
« Reply #33 on: May 28, 2017, 19:11:55 »
I'm looking at coming over to Canadian Infantry,

You may find this discussion of interest,

The "Wanting To Join Another Military" Thread- Them To Us- Us To Them 
https://army.ca/forums/index.php?topic=18494.0
18 pages.

Your profile says you are 17, so you would require parental consent.
http://www.forces.ca/en/page/applynow-100#who

Online Blackadder1916

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Re: UK Clothing and Equipment of the Infantry compared with CA
« Reply #34 on: May 28, 2017, 19:20:53 »
JWJ I'm a little confused by your original post here, maybe I'm just daft. Are you saying you're looking at applying to the Canadian infantry and you're presently UK infantry? Or are you looking at joining up over there and wondering what kit we use?   Maybe I'm just reading you wrong but to me you sounded like you're trying hard  to play the part of something, just not sure what yet?  Sorry if I'm off the mark(really).

I, too, was a little confused by the tone offered by JWJ.  It would be easy to assume that he is an trained soldier looking to switch to an organization on this side of the pond and he is providing details of his current uniform, eqpt and training based on personal experience.

However . . .

https://army.ca/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=110013
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Posts: 15 (N/A per day)
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I'm a dual British-Canadian Citizen, been to visit Canada a few times to see family in BC, and I am currently in the application process to join the Royal Navy as a Royal Marines Commando.

I've passed the Psychometric test and Interview, although I have the feeling I'm about to fail the Medical (will find out within 5 days), and thus unable to join the British Armed Forces - soul destroying!



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Offline Jack0800

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Re: UK Clothing and Equipment of the Infantry compared with CA
« Reply #35 on: May 28, 2017, 19:27:59 »
I, too, was a little confused by the tone offered by JWJ.  It would be easy to assume that he is an trained soldier looking to switch to an organization on this side of the pond and he is providing details of his current uniform, eqpt and training based on personal experience.

However . . .

https://army.ca/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=110013

I had a re-read of my posts, and yeah I can see where you're coming from, although I didn't mean to come across as suggesting I was active duty. My history is Cadets (5 years, which goes indepth in Infantry stuff up to Platoon level if in the right Coy with the right staff), and local Reserve force, hence the talk of exercises and so forth. Medical standards are far more stringently followed for the Naval Service (of which the Marines are apart of) than the Army, but despite a Army pass, a fail is Tri-Service  :(. Should I be passed fit, I'll be continuing with the Reserves until the end of this year and then hopfully go off to CTCRM -edit- Commando Training Centre Royal Marines!

I forgot to put in the brief summary of my experience in my original post, apologies for that and any assumptions that may have been made based on my tone and writting.

To remedy this, and prevent such future mishaps, I'll request a name change to befit my lowly level of existence  :facepalm:
« Last Edit: May 28, 2017, 19:34:03 by JWJ »

Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: UK Clothing and Equipment of the Infantry compared with CA
« Reply #36 on: May 28, 2017, 20:30:03 »
Ahhh, without trying to sound harsh you're definitely  not the first person to come here and talk the talk with a side order of posturing and  present yourself as something you're not,  be it on purpose or accidentally.

You'll notice we're a bit accustomed to picking up certain things and manners that people speak (and also picking up on what they don't say).  Such as ambiguously mentioning 'working along side other nations'  or sounding like an acronym app, no offense ;)     

I played with one of your L85s a year before you were born so you can understand how the puffy chest act is more comical than intimidating. It's all good though dude, you do you and don't worry about impressing anyone or fitting in. But seriously if kit and equipment is important to you then don't join the Canadian Forces.

That said I'd love to get my hands on some Lowas or  Haix boots, size 9.5US.   Maybe we can trade some kit ;)

« Last Edit: May 28, 2017, 20:33:20 by Jarnhamar »
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Offline Jack0800

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Re: UK Clothing and Equipment of the Infantry compared with CA
« Reply #37 on: May 28, 2017, 20:49:21 »
Ahhh, without trying to sound harsh you're definitely  not the first person to come here and talk the talk with a side order of posturing and  present yourself as something you're not,  be it on purpose or accidentally.

You'll notice we're a bit accustomed to picking up certain things and manners that people speak (and also picking up on what they don't say).  Such as ambiguously mentioning 'working along side other nations'  or sounding like an acronym app, no offense ;)     

I played with one of your L85s a year before you were born so you can understand how the puffy chest act is more comical than intimidating. It's all good though dude, you do you and don't worry about impressing anyone or fitting in. But seriously if kit and equipment is important to you then don't join the Canadian Forces.

That said I'd love to get my hands on some Lowas or  Haix boots, size 9.5US.   Maybe we can trade some kit ;)

Oh please, first and foremost I don't want to be taken for a walt, second most I don't want to appear to be doing the 'puffy chest act' aha. I do see it from your view, and I'd probably react the exact same. I haven't been trying to fit in or anything like that, or appear to be a big boy or so on, if I was trying to fit in I'd have been a great deal more reserved - although saying that, once I do settle in here, I'll probably find myself relaxing and my personality coming through alot more.

Do you remember if the L85 was an A1 or an A2? I can't remember top of my head when A2s were brought in, but its a massive upgrade, going from what I've heard to be one of the least reliable and worst weapons in NATO to one of the best, and my own experience with it being great, only stoppages due to my magazine and a single double feed, and although I'm not, as we've established, active duty Infantry, I've still had a fair deal of range time with an A2.

Was about to comment on you having small feet, but then realise I was looking at the women's size conversion... I'll see if I've got any un-opened pairs laying around as we're in the same size, if not I may just be able to get a pair from my QM (no promises).

If it comes to my medical coming back as a fail then the Canadian Military is my only option so I'll have to get on with it. I'll still be proud to wear the maple leaf and I'm proud to be a Canadian citizen, even if it is as bad as some people say and I'd find myself stepping back 40 years compared to the Brit military (which I doubt its that bad).

You mentioned you were on ex with a Brit unit recently, what Regt were they? Was this at Suffield or a different training area? Speaking of Suffield, do you get to go on ex with British units alot at Suffield?
« Last Edit: May 28, 2017, 21:01:01 by PongoCadet »

Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: UK Clothing and Equipment of the Infantry compared with CA
« Reply #38 on: May 28, 2017, 23:28:42 »
Anyway, back on topic - we have better rifles.

Yes and amen to that.  :salute:
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Offline Loachman

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Re: UK Clothing and Equipment of the Infantry compared with CA
« Reply #39 on: May 28, 2017, 23:50:00 »
I scrounged some range time with an L85A-Nothing at a nice little RM establishment in Poole in early 1990. It shot alright, I liked its compactness, and I don't remember any handling problems, but it struck me as flimsy and fragile and I'm not a fan of descending-post sight reticles, beginning with the one on my No 4(T) (but that is a minor annoyance only). Yes, I know that HK fixed some stuff and jazzed it up a bit, but there's good reason why more countries issue M16/M4/C7/C8 family weapons than L85.

Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: UK Clothing and Equipment of the Infantry compared with CA
« Reply #40 on: May 29, 2017, 00:00:44 »
I scrounged some range time with an L85A-Nothing at a nice little RM establishment in Poole in early 1990. It shot alright, I liked its compactness, and I don't remember any handling problems, but it struck me as flimsy and fragile and I'm not a fan of descending-post sight reticles, beginning with the one on my No 4(T) (but that is a minor annoyance only). Yes, I know that HK fixed some stuff and jazzed it up a bit, but there's good reason why more countries issue M16/M4/C7/C8 family weapons than L85.

HK just put ear rings on a pig. There's a reason the SAS et al use Canadian C7s...
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Offline Dimsum

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Re: UK Clothing and Equipment of the Infantry compared with CA
« Reply #41 on: May 29, 2017, 01:29:18 »
HK just put ear rings on a pig. There's a reason the SAS et al use Canadian C7s...

So, a Canadian-designed defence item that's not a piece of crap?  They should be trumpeting that as part of their advertising  >:D
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Offline Dimsum

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Re: UK Clothing and Equipment of the Infantry compared with CA
« Reply #42 on: May 29, 2017, 01:31:14 »
I'm proud to be a Canadian citizen, even if it is as bad as some people say and I'd find myself stepping back 40 years compared to the Brit military (which I doubt its that bad).

One of my friends was posted to Suffield for a while and had experience working with BATUS.  He certainly didn't think the CAF was 40 years behind the Brits.
Philip II of Macedon to Spartans (346 BC):  "You are advised to submit without further delay, for if I bring my army into your land, I will destroy your farms, slay your people, and raze your city."

Reply:  "If."

Offline Jack0800

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Re: UK Clothing and Equipment of the Infantry compared with CA
« Reply #43 on: May 29, 2017, 08:20:47 »
I scrounged some range time with an L85A-Nothing at a nice little RM establishment in Poole in early 1990. It shot alright, I liked its compactness, and I don't remember any handling problems, but it struck me as flimsy and fragile and I'm not a fan of descending-post sight reticles, beginning with the one on my No 4(T) (but that is a minor annoyance only). Yes, I know that HK fixed some stuff and jazzed it up a bit, but there's good reason why more countries issue M16/M4/C7/C8 family weapons than L85.

HK did alot of work internally and externally, to the point the only real issues now are the fact it ejects rounds to the right, and its hard for a leftie to learn to shoot right handed. I've not got experience with earlier L85s so I couldn't comment on how flimsy or fragile they were, though the A2 seems solid and doesn't shake or rattle (depending on how abused its been of course), I think that came from the removal of the green handguard and altering the production method of the trigger mechanism housing.

One of my friends was posted to Suffield for a while and had experience working with BATUS.  He certainly didn't think the CAF was 40 years behind the Brits.

I'd be interested to hear his (or your) POV, as all I've heard is negatives about the CAF compared, which though I understand a large amount will be due to the idea that the grass is always greener, there is a huge amount of complaints and worries, with it being called the British Army in the 1980s often, in a lot of threads on alot of forums.

Offline Loachman

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Re: UK Clothing and Equipment of the Infantry compared with CA
« Reply #44 on: May 29, 2017, 08:38:35 »
So, a Canadian-designed defence item that's not a piece of crap?  They should be trumpeting that as part of their advertising

US-designed, by Eugene Stoner, improved many times over many years, and produced to a high standard by Colt Canada. It's cold-forged barrel initially set the C7 and C8 apart from others, but that feature is no longer unique.