Author Topic: The US Presidency 2019  (Read 121249 times)

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Offline quadrapiper

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Re: The US Presidency 2019
« Reply #425 on: June 01, 2019, 16:03:37 »
>As for the election campaign, it seems reasonable to flag it as being something of a grab-bag of white collar crimes, questionable contacts and influences, and general sleaze. Nothing about any of the adult Trumps suggests that, offered advantage by a foreign power, they wouldn't seize that advantage.
I'm reasonably certain that all of our federal politicians, even the ones whose policies I despise, would steer clear of the sort of gratuitous, hazardous to the nation associations the Trump campaign (and, given e.g. Butina, other elements of the US Right establishment) had swirling around it. There's always foreign contact, especially dealing with anyone from a high-level business, diplomatic, or political background or family (e.g. Martin, Trudeau), but that's background noise compared to Ivan strolling into Trump Tower.

Offline Brad Sallows

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Re: The US Presidency 2019
« Reply #426 on: June 01, 2019, 16:25:04 »
A meeting in which the campaign participants expected to receive dirt on the opposition campaign, and then blew it off because it didn't meet expectations?  I fully realize it is repeatedly presented by critics as something grave and troubling; but that's a problem for the people who find it so to deal with.  I find it pretty trivial compared to all the other mud-slinging and dirt-digging that goes on during election campaigns.  Too much stuff is misrepresented as something graver than it is, or misrepresented entirely.  From today's reading I see that there are still some writers (well-respected in the world of journalism) who can't resist writing a sentence to invite a reader to conclude that the problem with Flynn is that he met with a Russian, rather than that he lied about it later.  As long as the Blue Team can't climb down from their outrage enough to start talking truthfully, I expect the Red Team to go right on making equally outrageous (eg. "exoneration") claims.

Two simple exercises:
1) On a scale of 1 (least) to 10 (worst), where does the Trump Tower meeting rank?
2) On the same scale, where does the Steele investigation rank (as a dirt-digging effort; disregard its use by the FBI)?

Shifting the context from the US to Canada doesn't make much sense - Canada's relative importance and influence is much lesser.  If Canada had the clout in the world the US does, I suppose we'd observe similar levels of sleaze.

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Offline mariomike

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Re: The US Presidency 2019
« Reply #427 on: June 01, 2019, 21:41:08 »
As for the election campaign, it seems reasonable to flag it as being something of a grab-bag of white collar crimes, questionable contacts and influences, and general sleaze. Nothing about any of the adult Trumps suggests that, offered advantage by a foreign power, they wouldn't seize that advantage.

Ivanka or Don Jr. In 2024?

Offline quadrapiper

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Re: The US Presidency 2019
« Reply #428 on: June 02, 2019, 13:42:54 »
Ivanka or Don Jr. In 2024?
DJT, first of his name, etc...

Wouldn't be at all surprised if that's the ambition.

Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: The US Presidency 2019
« Reply #429 on: June 02, 2019, 15:45:46 »
"I had nothing to do with Russia helping me to get elected."
https://www.google.com/search?q=I+had+nothing+to+do+with+Russia+helping+me+to+get+elected&source=lnt&tbs=cdr%3A1%2Ccd_min%3A5%2F30%2F2019%2Ccd_max%3A5%2F31%2F2019&tbm=

Seen that and a bunch of people flipping out over how this is an admission of guilt and he needs to be impeached bla bla bla.

Same people whom when Trump makes a statement they don't like or agree with, brush it off as nonsense and the ramblings of a mad man not to be believed.

It seems when to believe Trump is directly related to how bad it makes him look.

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Offline mariomike

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Re: The US Presidency 2019
« Reply #430 on: June 02, 2019, 15:59:48 »
Seen that and a bunch of people flipping out over how this is an admission of guilt

I read it as a denial ,

"I had nothing to do with Russia helping me to get elected."

and he needs to be impeached bla bla bla.

Quote
May 28, 2019 

Senate Republicans Say They Would Kill Trump Impeachment Charges Instantly
http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/05/trump-impeachment-senate-gop-would-kill-charges-instantly.html



« Last Edit: June 02, 2019, 16:18:01 by mariomike »

Offline Brad Sallows

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Re: The US Presidency 2019
« Reply #431 on: June 02, 2019, 16:21:21 »
The "admission" some people are excited about is the implied admission that Russia did help him get elected (ie. another nail for those that like to pound the "illegitimately elected" table).

But Trump is the speaker, so we're left to guess whether his intent was to express the idea that Russia did help get him elected, or that Russia did try to help get him elected.  (Depending on viewpoint, the political distinction between Russian interference being a meaningful/successful intervention and a mere attempt can be huge.)
That which does not kill me has made a grave tactical error.

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Offline milnews.ca

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Re: The US Presidency 2019
« Reply #432 on: June 03, 2019, 12:26:29 »
It seems when to believe Trump any politician is directly related to how bad it makes him/her look.
True, but not JUST for #POTUS45  ;D
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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: The US Presidency 2019
« Reply #433 on: June 03, 2019, 17:54:17 »
I read it as a denial ,

"I had nothing to do with Russia helping me to get elected."

I wanna say the antifa psychopaths helped more than the Russians.

Thought I read somewhere that a whopping $3000 in campaign donations were attributed to Russia.
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Offline mariomike

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Re: The US Presidency 2019
« Reply #434 on: June 03, 2019, 18:54:16 »
Quote
I wanna say the antifa psychopaths helped more than the Russians.

I just know what I read in the papers,
Quote
The Atlantic
The special counsel pointed back to the words of his report. Here are its key findings.
May 29, 2019

“The Russian government interfered in the 2016 presidential election in sweeping and systematic fashion,” Mueller wrote. This help “favored presidential candidate Donald J. Trump and disparaged presidential candidate Hillary Clinton.”

The Trump campaign “expected it would benefit electorally from information stolen and released through Russian efforts,” and it “welcomed” this help.

There is insufficient evidence to accuse the Trump campaign of criminal conspiracy with its Russian benefactors. However, “the social media campaign and the GRU hacking operations coincided with a series of contacts between Trump Campaign officials and individuals with ties to the Russian government.”

These contacts were covered up by a series of lies, both to the special counsel and to Congress. Lying by the Trump campaign successfully obscured much of what happened in 2016. The special counsel in some cases “was not able to corroborate witness statements through comparison to contemporaneous communications or fully question witnesses about statements that appeared inconsistent with other known facts.” In particular, the investigation never did determine what happened to proprietary Trump-campaign polling data shared with the Russians.

Within hours of the appointment of a special counsel to investigate 2016 events, Trump began defaming him. Trump had already fired the FBI director who investigated these events. His first order to fire the special counsel appointed in the director’s place was issued on June 17, 2017, a month after Mueller’s appointment. That order would be followed by many more. Trump directed his staff to lie about these orders.

Over and above his efforts to fire the special counsel, “the President engaged in a second phase of conduct, involving public attacks on the investigation, non-public efforts to control it, and efforts in both public and private to encourage witnesses not to cooperate with the investigation.”

The subversion of the investigation was brazen. “Many of the President’s acts directed at witnesses, including discouragement of cooperation with the government and suggestions of possible future pardons, occurred in public view.”

Full article here,
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/05/mueller/590467/


« Last Edit: June 03, 2019, 18:58:03 by mariomike »

Offline Bruce Monkhouse

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Re: The US Presidency 2019
« Reply #435 on: June 03, 2019, 19:02:08 »
Gee, imagine the gall to call a witch hunt a witch hunt. 
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Offline mariomike

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Re: The US Presidency 2019
« Reply #436 on: June 03, 2019, 19:12:19 »
Gee, imagine the gall to call a witch hunt a witch hunt.

"Fake news!"    :)

Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: The US Presidency 2019
« Reply #437 on: June 03, 2019, 19:29:43 »
You know what's probably worse than a foreign government trying to interphere with your countries elections? *

When agencies from your own government like the FBI do.



*for all I know the Russians did try and interphere. Considering how many countries the USA has interphered with I rally can't find myself getting too upset about someone doing it to them.
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Offline mariomike

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« Last Edit: June 03, 2019, 20:01:46 by mariomike »

Offline Bruce Monkhouse

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Re: The US Presidency 2019
« Reply #439 on: June 03, 2019, 20:11:20 »
Every country interferes in other countries business if it suits their fancy.....always has been, always will be.
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Offline Brad Sallows

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Re: The US Presidency 2019
« Reply #440 on: June 03, 2019, 22:15:52 »
>I wanna say the antifa psychopaths helped more than the Russians.

Good luck measuring that.  The influence of either probably doesn't kick in until the third or fourth decimal place.
That which does not kill me has made a grave tactical error.

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Despair is a sin.

Offline milnews.ca

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Re: The US Presidency 2019
« Reply #441 on: June 21, 2019, 06:47:40 »
Fave excerpt from this one ...
Quote
... The hope is that voters will embrace Biden as a kind of American Churchill.

The past 24 hours raise, not for the first time, a more painful possibility: Grampa Simpson is running for president ...
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Offline mariomike

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Re: The US Presidency 2019
« Reply #442 on: June 21, 2019, 09:31:05 »
Quote
The past 24 hours raise, not for the first time, a more painful possibility: Grampa Simpson is running for president ...

Opinions on which septuagenarian is the more "stable genius" may depend on which team one supports.


Offline milnews.ca

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Re: The US Presidency 2019
« Reply #443 on: June 21, 2019, 10:50:04 »
Opinions on which septuagenarian is the more "stable genius" may depend on which team one supports.
Well, neither are in a great position to realistically play the "he's too old" card …  ;D
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Offline FJAG

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Re: The US Presidency 2019
« Reply #444 on: June 21, 2019, 12:53:41 »
He blinked!

Quote
Trump confirms he called off retaliatory Iran attack ‘10 minutes before the strike’

President Trump confirmed early Friday that he called off a retaliatory attack on Iran in response to the downing of a U.S. drone “10 minutes before the strike,” saying the number of expected casualties was not "proportionate" to what Tehran did.

In a stunning tweet thread, the president said the U.S. was "cocked & loaded to retaliate" with plans to hit three sites, but he reversed course after asking military leaders about how many would be killed. ...

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/us-called-off-retaliatory-strike-against-iran-in-last-minute-wsj

Quote
How Donald Trump created one hell of a mess with Iran

The shooting down of a US military drone by Iran on Thursday emphasizes that the conflict between the United States and Iran is deepening.

It's a crisis that President Donald Trump predictably provoked by pulling out of the Iranian nuclear deal just over a year ago -- with no real Plan B beyond imposing ever-tougher sanctions on the Iranian regime.
But the story gets more complicated, because in the last few weeks, Trump has sent mixed messages regarding his true intentions. ...

https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/20/opinions/us-iran-mess-trump-endgame-bergen/index.html

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Offline tomahawk6

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Re: The US Presidency 2019
« Reply #445 on: June 21, 2019, 13:04:53 »
I doubt he blinked, rather he didn't want to kill upwards of 150 people at this time. The sanctions are hurting and more sanctions might be a better option unless reflagged tankers or a USN vessel is hit. PRC involvement in Iran is a factor for caution as trade negotiations are being worked out. Hitting a location where there might be Russian or PRC military personnel would pose a much bigger problem than just Iran.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2019, 13:17:52 by tomahawk6 »

Offline Brad Sallows

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Re: The US Presidency 2019
« Reply #446 on: June 21, 2019, 13:15:41 »
Blinked, or made a point?

I doubt Trump's own thought process led to the decision.  I see the result of a deliberation involving several people, with the more peaceable faction carrying the day - probably the lawyer in the room, or the diplomats.  So now everyone knows the US isn't necessarily going to be provoked into military escalation by a trivial provocation, and that if a response happens it is unlikely to be equally trivial.

People who in recent weeks cautioned the administration against military escalation should be happy.  Nevertheless, I suppose now some will switch to baiting Trump ("weak Trump! indecisive Trump!") as having lost face, in order to continue serving their partisan political goals.  If that goads Trump into overreaction, then they can exploit that too, even if it means people die who otherwise might not.
That which does not kill me has made a grave tactical error.

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Online Remius

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Re: The US Presidency 2019
« Reply #447 on: June 21, 2019, 13:58:21 »

Strategic decisions are not always political decisions.
Optio

Offline Fishbone Jones

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Re: The US Presidency 2019
« Reply #448 on: June 21, 2019, 15:53:56 »
He blinked!

 :rofl:

He made a sound, humane decision. I know it drives the TDS crowd crazy, but there it is.
Corruption in politics doesn't scare me.
What scares me is how comfortable people are doing nothing about it.

Offline Bruce Monkhouse

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Re: The US Presidency 2019
« Reply #449 on: June 21, 2019, 16:30:39 »
:rofl:

He made a sound, humane decision. I know it drives the TDS crowd crazy, but there it is.

Yup,....and didn't make a lot of future terrorists.  Sometimes just having Daddy unbuckle his belt sends a good message.
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