Author Topic: USS Bonhomme Richard on fire  (Read 7528 times)

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Offline FJAG

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Re: USS Bonhomme Richard on fire
« Reply #50 on: July 13, 2020, 23:03:54 »
I bet the amount of personal kit claimed as destroyed in that fire exceeded what the truck would carry.

It was a 3/4 ton trailer, but yeah. Hard to prove anything when all you can do is stir through the ashes with a steel rod from a 105mm ammo box looking for zippers and unmelted innards from radio gear. Mostly all we could do was say that "we can't disprove what's in this statutory declaration".

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Offline MJP

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Re: USS Bonhomme Richard on fire
« Reply #51 on: July 13, 2020, 23:05:36 »
I bet the amount of personal kit claimed as destroyed in that fire exceeded what the truck would carry.

LOL reminds me of the amount of Ipods, CD players and gucci clothes in a destroyed LAV in Afghanistan.  Seemed like everyone in that LAV was rockingat least two of each item!
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Offline FJAG

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Re: USS Bonhomme Richard on fire
« Reply #52 on: July 13, 2020, 23:35:06 »
This recent video feed seems to show things are under much more control now:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-xsCZE4RFU

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Online CBH99

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Re: USS Bonhomme Richard on fire
« Reply #53 on: July 13, 2020, 23:41:21 »
 ^-^
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Offline Colin P

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Re: USS Bonhomme Richard on fire
« Reply #54 on: July 14, 2020, 00:23:33 »
I just surprised no one pushed the LCS against her in hopes it would catch fire as well

Online CBH99

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Re: USS Bonhomme Richard on fire
« Reply #55 on: July 14, 2020, 00:35:26 »
There's quite a few LCS nearby, they really did bank on those things filling the fleet!   The visual puts the numbers in perspective.  Counted quite a few
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Offline SeaKingTacco

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Re: USS Bonhomme Richard on fire
« Reply #56 on: July 14, 2020, 00:45:30 »
This recent video feed seems to show things are under much more control now:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-xsCZE4RFU

 :cheers:

yeah, things look better but you can bet the fire will reflash for days as they overhaul. IIRC DC school correctly, it will take at least 7 days before you can declare a fire of this magnitude out.

Offline CloudCover

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Re: USS Bonhomme Richard on fire
« Reply #57 on: July 14, 2020, 00:58:30 »
Watching the helicopters dump water down the stack reminds me of the Soviet choppers flying loads of concrete into Chernyobol.
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Offline Ludoc

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Re: USS Bonhomme Richard on fire
« Reply #58 on: July 14, 2020, 04:17:16 »
Spotted this on reddit:The island of USS Bonhomme Richard (LHD-6) as viewed from an MH-60 that was dumping water to assist the firefighters battling the now day old fire. July 13th, 2020

Offline tomahawk6

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Re: USS Bonhomme Richard on fire
« Reply #59 on: July 14, 2020, 04:49:45 »
At least the ship isnt nuclear powered or they might be dumping concrete.

Offline Brihard

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Re: USS Bonhomme Richard on fire
« Reply #60 on: July 14, 2020, 06:51:43 »
Given that this is believed to have started in a deep cargo hold and flames came all the ay up through the superstructure, probably the inside is mostly gutted. The fact that it burned hot enough for the mast to collapse is suggestive of structural weakening.

Hope the yard’s got good insurance...
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Offline Colin P

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Re: USS Bonhomme Richard on fire
« Reply #61 on: July 14, 2020, 12:14:11 »
I am sure their lawyers are lining up to do battle already.

Offline Navy_Pete

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Re: USS Bonhomme Richard on fire
« Reply #62 on: July 14, 2020, 14:02:06 »
Given that this is believed to have started in a deep cargo hold and flames came all the ay up through the superstructure, probably the inside is mostly gutted. The fact that it burned hot enough for the mast to collapse is suggestive of structural weakening.

Hope the yard’s got good insurance...

Usually insurance is capped at a max value, as the customer pays it as part of the work anyway. We have a max cap around 40 or 50 million and self insure for anything beyond that; that's a standard clause/value for overhaul work that I think applies across the GoC. It's not cheap, but a full value insurance policy would cost more then the DWP.

I think it's at Naval base San Diego though, and believe it was undergoing an alongside work period by the dockyard. From what I understand, it's their giant equivalent to our FMFs under NAVSEA that does that for them.

Still burning though; at this point would be a win if they can keep the fuel from lighting off/spilling into the bay and get the fire out.  Just crazy.

Offline Hamish Seggie

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Re: USS Bonhomme Richard on fire
« Reply #63 on: July 14, 2020, 16:02:57 »
At least the ship isnt nuclear powered or they might be dumping concrete.

One question: Will this ship be a total write off?

OK two questions - What type of ship is this? Infantry here.....  [:-[
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Offline FJAG

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Re: USS Bonhomme Richard on fire
« Reply #64 on: July 14, 2020, 16:22:34 »
One question: Will this ship be a total write off?

OK two questions - What type of ship is this? Infantry here.....  [:-[

A Wasp Class Amphibious Assault ship

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Bonhomme_Richard_(LHD-6)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wasp-class_amphibious_assault_ship

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Offline tomahawk6

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Re: USS Bonhomme Richard on fire
« Reply #65 on: July 14, 2020, 16:55:41 »
Somehow the fire suppresion system was turned off so that may help the insurance company.

Offline SeaKingTacco

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Re: USS Bonhomme Richard on fire
« Reply #66 on: July 14, 2020, 17:03:00 »
Somehow the fire suppresion system was turned off so that may help the insurance company.

I was turned off, because it was being worked on.  It is hard to say at this point if there is any contractor culpability. BHR was in USN custody, at a USN base, conducting work under the supervision of NAVSEA.  Now, maybe a contractor screwed up, but no way is anybody but the US taxpayer paying for a 4 billion dollar ship.

And, in my opinion, she is done like dinner.  Cheaper to build new. Which they might not even have to, given the pivot in role the USMC is undergoing right now.

Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: USS Bonhomme Richard on fire
« Reply #67 on: July 14, 2020, 17:57:11 »
I was turned off, because it was being worked on.  It is hard to say at this point if there is any contractor culpability. BHR was in USN custody, at a USN base, conducting work under the supervision of NAVSEA.  Now, maybe a contractor screwed up, but no way is anybody but the US taxpayer paying for a 4 billion dollar ship.

And, in my opinion, she is done like dinner.  Cheaper to build new. Which they might not even have to, given the pivot in role the USMC is undergoing right now.

Speaking as a self-interested scuba diver, would it be too soon for these guys to give them a call? :)

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Offline Navy_Pete

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Re: USS Bonhomme Richard on fire
« Reply #68 on: July 14, 2020, 20:23:51 »
Speaking as a self-interested scuba diver, would it be too soon for these guys to give them a call? :)

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lol, good luck. Prepping the ship for an artificial reef means total environmental scrub down and costs a fortune. All kinds of weird stuff happens in fire chemistry, especially when so many things are burning together, it will be a huge hazmat cleanup. Plus, ITAR.

Offline Colin P

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Re: USS Bonhomme Richard on fire
« Reply #69 on: July 15, 2020, 00:53:05 »
lol, good luck. Prepping the ship for an artificial reef means total environmental scrub down and costs a fortune. All kinds of weird stuff happens in fire chemistry, especially when so many things are burning together, it will be a huge hazmat cleanup. Plus, ITAR.

Depends on the era, the navy when they sell a ship for scrap, have to certify it as PCB free, on the DDE, that means all the wiring had to go and then certain types of insulation. The good news is that asbestos is not considered a hazard underwater, so asbestos panels can be secured into an compartment or tank and sunk with the ship. That saves a lot of money. The PCB and asbestos would be an issue even if you scrap the ship. The ITAR stuff would likely be removed prior to sale. You are correct that after the fire it would be impossible to met the environmental standards though. However the navy can get around that by sinking her as a target with a somewhat less stringent standard.   

Offline Underway

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Re: USS Bonhomme Richard on fire
« Reply #70 on: July 15, 2020, 08:49:53 »
Somehow the fire suppresion system was turned off so that may help the insurance company.

Its not a conspiracy or an error.  When a ship is undergoing work such as grinding or welding you turn off the fire suppression and detection systems.  This is because the heat of the grinding/welding will set them off in or near the space you are working on.  Alarms going off or halon just randomly discharging is exceedingly irritating if not unsafe.

RCN policy is that when there is hot work you also have a fire sentry with an extinguisher on guard, and perhaps a charged hose ready.  Plenty of fire sentries have put out minor paint fires due to heat.

As for how can a fire get that hot without combustables.  It can't but a ship is full of combustables despite our best efforts.  At 1000 degree F many things burn: copper electrical cables, paint, beds, blankets, printers, paper, desks, staplers, potato chips, clothes, fuel lines, fibre optics, grease on doors, fittings, anything with a battery explodes, rubber, keyboards, fire hoses, the deck coating on the vehicle decks is probably non-slip and combustible at a high temp  etc...

Then add to that its an enclosed space where the heat gets trapped...

The fire on HMCS Toronto last year was put out fairly quickly but caused structural concerns to the uptake floor that needed repair (no visible damage but the RCN wasn't going to take the risk).  The few aluminum tools in the uptake were melted, the bronze refulling bell was melted and all the paint and wiring were gone.  The fuel spill soak pads were of course burnt.  And that was put out fairly quickly by the duty watch (proper overhaul required the fire dept and adjacent ship help).  When they start to burn, it can get nasty very quickly.
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Offline SeaKingTacco

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Re: USS Bonhomme Richard on fire
« Reply #71 on: July 15, 2020, 11:12:05 »
During the PRO fire, I am told, the fire got so hot that the glass melted out of the gauges in the engine room.  Fire on a ship is no joke.

Offline Navy_Pete

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Re: USS Bonhomme Richard on fire
« Reply #72 on: July 15, 2020, 12:40:28 »
During the PRO fire, I am told, the fire got so hot that the glass melted out of the gauges in the engine room.  Fire on a ship is no joke.

There was some steel decking that burned through and girders that warped, but paper on a bench right under the fire along the ceiling was fine. For context, that wasn't considered a 'fully involved' space  fire, and still wrote off a ship.

This one appears to have multiple compartments fully involved (basically all fuel sources burning). Will be interesting to read the reports; the USN is excellent at putting out detailed public reports on these kind of incidents, and learn a lot from them.

Offline Navy_Pete

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Re: USS Bonhomme Richard on fire
« Reply #73 on: July 15, 2020, 12:55:03 »
Depends on the era, the navy when they sell a ship for scrap, have to certify it as PCB free, on the DDE, that means all the wiring had to go and then certain types of insulation. The good news is that asbestos is not considered a hazard underwater, so asbestos panels can be secured into an compartment or tank and sunk with the ship. That saves a lot of money. The PCB and asbestos would be an issue even if you scrap the ship. The ITAR stuff would likely be removed prior to sale. You are correct that after the fire it would be impossible to met the environmental standards though. However the navy can get around that by sinking her as a target with a somewhat less stringent standard.

On our end the environmental standards for a target are comparable to a reef. For example the fuel lines and tanks on Huron were emptied and steam cleaned, and in general the POLs were removed as much as practicable.

It's surprising what stuff gets labeled as ITAR; in lots of cases it's commercially avaiblable, but as soon as it gets catalogued and given an NSN it can become ITAR if the classification rolls down from the system it's used on. Have seen all kinds of bolts and other fasteners and other weird things labeled as ITAR and had to be demilitarized as a result. There is a process to get the classification changed, but is heavily bureaucratic and can take years. Usually by the time that we get rid of it, it's so far behind the current technology it doesn't actually matter, but is faster/cheaper to just destroy it then try and push the staff work required to get it declared non-ITAR (which they likely will tell us to pound sand anyway).

Other bits can be integral to the ship (like the shaft seals), and cataloging, removing and demilitarizing them can be a lot of expensive work. That's a big part of the reason that we stopped giving ships to reef societies/museums. It costs too much, and we've been bitten a few too many times with rusting hulks that we had to take back. It's reasonably more cost efficient to do it as part of the ship breaking process, where whole components are removed and run through a big metal shredder, but is all tracked down to individual NSNs line by line.

Offline stellarpanther

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Re: USS Bonhomme Richard on fire
« Reply #74 on: July 15, 2020, 12:57:49 »
Would all of the weapons (bombs, missiles etc) have been removed or do they just assign people to guard them while the contractors are onboard doing their job?  If so is there a risk of them exploding causing real damage to the base?