Author Topic: Logistics Officer - Sea [Merged]  (Read 284156 times)

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Offline Piper

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Re: Logistics Officer - Sea [Merged]
« Reply #50 on: April 04, 2009, 21:00:54 »
Hi All,

I was wondering how easy it is to transfer your skills and knowledge learned from a reservist log officer career to the private sector. Also, it probably depends on your log speciality and the type of civil job, but I am curious to know from your experience how the private sector evaluates a candidate that has learned log in CF?

Regards,

No personal experience here, but lots of what you learn as a log officer is transferrable to the private sector. Supply chain management, vehicle life cycle management, financial management and administration...the list goes on. If you want a CF officer job where you can easily move into a related civvy position, log is one of the better ones.

Offline George Wallace

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Re: Logistics Officer - Sea [Merged]
« Reply #51 on: April 05, 2009, 09:18:32 »
Hi All,

I was wondering how easy it is to transfer your skills and knowledge learned from a reservist log officer career to the private sector. Also, it probably depends on your log speciality and the type of civil job, but I am curious to know from your experience how the private sector evaluates a candidate that has learned log in CF?

Regards,

Not to be ignorant, but why would this be any different from any other job application you may make in your lifetime?  You do up a CV/Resume and list all your qualifications and experience.  You list all of your skills acquired from the CF, Courses, other jobs, etc.   This would be no different than had you been in any other job.  It all boils down to how good you are at "selling yourself".
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Offline Antoine

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Re: Logistics Officer - Sea [Merged]
« Reply #52 on: April 05, 2009, 13:56:35 »
I say also that often we are hired for what we know and we are kept or fired for who we are  ;D

In my field (R&D, pharma, biotech,...), many but not all managers are reluctant to hire people that have worked at universities or for governmental agencies. Sad too say that they fall in the trap of reductionism and stereotyping.

I was wondering how much this twisted tendency was also found in logistic/administrative area about CF and private sector.

However, I agree 100% that whatever the circumstance, the responsibility of success is on the shoulder of individual unless extreme situation. If someone is smart enough to target the right place at the right time or even better to create opportunities then sky is the limit !

Cheers,
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Offline zorro

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Re: Logistics Officer - Sea [Merged]
« Reply #53 on: April 15, 2009, 21:58:08 »
Not to be ignorant, but why would this be any different from any other job application you may make in your lifetime?  You do up a CV/Resume and list all your qualifications and experience.  You list all of your skills acquired from the CF, Courses, other jobs, etc.   This would be no different than had you been in any other job.  It all boils down to how good you are at "selling yourself".

George I don't see what relation your post has to the original question?

It seems to me he was inquiring as to what type of experience one would attain as a LOG-O in the CF. Any semi-intelligent person can match experience with actual job requirements.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. - Edmund Burke

Offline George Wallace

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Re: Logistics Officer - Sea [Merged]
« Reply #54 on: April 16, 2009, 07:21:50 »
George I don't see what relation your post has to the original question?

It seems to me he was inquiring as to what type of experience one would attain as a LOG-O in the CF. Any semi-intelligent person can match experience with actual job requirements.

 ???

Did you even read my post?  Did you read what I was replying to?  If you miss the relevance, then I may suggest you pay a little more attention to detail.
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Offline newton123

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Re: Logistics Officer - Sea [Merged]
« Reply #55 on: November 16, 2009, 14:24:07 »
Ok here goes.  I know little to nothing about what a Navy Log Officer is all about.  If there are any of you out there (I know I know, its the army.ca site!) could you please enlighten me.  I had previously ruled it out but I am (maybe) coming around to the idea.

1.  What are the primary employment areas for junior officers?

2.  How often am I away on training, at sea, just not able to come home at the end of the day?

3.  How does promotion work?  How do I move up?  Can I defer promotion in order to stay in Halifax/Esquimalt/Wherever and not uproot the family repeatedly?

4.  Is the naval side of log officer in any greater demand than green or blue?  Or is it really all the same in the beginning?

5.  How extensive are cross-postings?  Might I find myself as a QM at 2 RCR for example as a navy slt?

Thanks!

Offline Pusser

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Re: Logistics Officer - Sea [Merged]
« Reply #56 on: December 09, 2009, 16:01:12 »
Let me try to answer your questions.

1.  What are the primary employment areas for junior officers?

The primary employment for junior Naval Logistics Officers is in support to naval operations, be it on a support base, in headquarters or in a ship.  All of your initial training (after basic and second language training) is focused on the duties and responsibilities of a Ship's Logistics Officer (AKA Supply Officer or SYO although responsibilities are not limited to supply).   In the ship, you are responsible for all logistics support, which includes supply, food services, finance (both public and non-public) and transport.  You are also responsible for the RMS Clerks in the Ship's Office who are in your Department, but they largely work for the Executive Officer.  Employment in HQ and on the support base is generally in the same areas except for transport and food services (unless you are also specifically qualified as food services officer).

2.  How often am I away on training, at sea, just not able to come home at the end of the day?

It really depends on your circumstances.  All the training that has to take place before you get to your first ship can take upwards of two years from the point where you're sworn in.  After Basic and Second Language Training, you will have to do a common logistics course with your Army and Air Force brethren.  Then you will have to do the actual Sea Log course.  You will also have to do a sea environmental course (damage control, firefighting, difference between the sharp end and the blunt end, etc) and a naval operations course.  After all the courses are done, you are finally ready to go to sea at which point you will be posted to either Halifax or Esquimalt, if you're not there already.  You will then be employed somewhere until a training billet becomes available in a ship.  Up to this point, after basic, you are essentially home every night.  If your family is with you, life is good as long as they don't interfere with your studying.  Often times however, your family will be on one of the coasts and you will be in Borden on course for several weeks at a time (last time I checked, the Sea Log course was either 10 or 16 weeks).

Once you get to the ship, you start an "apprenticeship" of approximately 10 months where you act as the "baby" to the SYO.  You can expect a number of trips over this period, sometimes for a week or two, but you can usually count on at least two trips of up to two months.  You can also end up in a ship that will do a six month deployment.  The reality is that you want to sail as much as possible in order to get the experience.  Over the course of the next ten months, you will work in all the different Divisions of the Department  and you will have a list of requirements which you will have to complete.  Finally, if the SYO and the Captain feel you're ready, you will sit a board where a bunch of senior Naval Logistics Officers will grill you for two to three hours on what you have learned.  It's actually not as bad as it sounds - plenty of us have survived.   Once you pass the Board, you are then considered fully qualified and employable.  You have also joined a pretty exclusive club.  Your next appointment will likely be ashore while you await the opportunity to go back to sea as a Head of Department (HOD).


3.  How does promotion work?  How do I move up?  Can I defer promotion in order to stay in Halifax/Esquimalt/Wherever and not uproot the family repeatedly?

Once you get all the ticks in the box, promotion to Lt(N) is automatic and will come at the appropriate time.  It usually coincides with completion of your Board.  Promotion to LCdr is on merit and generally won't happen until after you have served a tour as a HOD in a frigate.  Some LCdrs return to sea as HODs in destroyers or AORs, but this is by no means universal.  Some Lt(N)s never get a HOD tour.  Deferring a promotion to stay in a location doesn't work.  They will post you anyway.  On the bright side, sailors don't move very often.  You can pretty much guarantee that you will end up in Ottawa at some point.  Over half the Logistics Branch is located there.

4.  Is the naval side of log officer in any greater demand than green or blue?  Or is it really all the same in the beginning?

Last I checked, it was the Army that had the highest demand.  The intake of Naval Logistics Officers is the lowest.  The biggest problem we are going to face over the next few years will be the lack of training billets at sea as our Fleet goes in for major refit.

5.  How extensive are cross-postings?  Might I find myself as a QM at 2 RCR for example as a navy slt?

Cross postings between elements are pretty much non-existent.  Although the NCMs are not restricted by uniform (ie you will find leading seamen in service batallions), we don't do this with Log officers.  A Naval Log Officer will NEVER be the QM at 2RCR any more than you would find an Air Force Captain as the SYO in a ship.

Having said this, there are purple jobs throughout the entire CF.  Postings to CEFCOM, CANSOFCOM and the other dot coms are all possible.  Deployments to what one would largely consider army (although really they are "joint") jobs such as Afghanistan and elsewhere are also possible.

Hope this helps.
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Offline ArmyVern

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Re: Logistics Officer - Sea [Merged]
« Reply #57 on: December 09, 2009, 23:33:14 »
Often times however, your family will be on one of the coasts and you will be in Borden on course for several weeks at a time (last time I checked, the Sea Log course was either 10 or 16 weeks).

16 weeks long. My next door neighbour/smoking buddy (who has been here since 5 Aug - who also happened to be my next door neighbour on our ILQ course), just deserted me last week upon his SLogO completion.  :'(

20 weeks down for me ... 29 to go!!
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Offline nick_the_guy

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Re: Logistics Officer - Sea [Merged]
« Reply #58 on: December 21, 2009, 00:12:59 »
I'm a Certified Management Accountant and I earned my degree in business administration about 8 years ago. I'm looking into joining as a Logistics Officer. What is the minimum contract length that I can sign for? A page on the CF website says 9 years but doing a search on this website references 5 years. What exactly are my options?

Offline George Wallace

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Re: Logistics Officer - Sea [Merged]
« Reply #59 on: December 21, 2009, 07:23:12 »
First off: Are you joining the Regular Force or the Primary Reserves?

Second:  Have you made up you mind yet whether you want to be a Vehicle Mechanic, an Armour officer, or a Logistics officer?  You are bouncing all over the grid with your questions.

Perhaps you should pay the CFRC a visit and sort out what options you may have.
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Offline meni0n

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Re: Logistics Officer - Sea [Merged]
« Reply #60 on: December 21, 2009, 23:01:48 »
I went to CFSAL web site and browsed thru all the speciality courses offered for Logistics officers but I couldn't find one for admin. Is an admin officer at a unit really just a position that any log o can fill or do they have to be filled with someone who took a specific speciality course like HRM?

Offline srhodes

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Re: Logistics Officer - Sea [Merged]
« Reply #61 on: December 22, 2009, 17:55:07 »
I am not a recruiter, but it is my understanding that the min. initial contract requirement for Log Officer (DEO) is 6 years.   :christmas happy:

Offline George Wallace

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Re: Logistics Officer - Sea [Merged]
« Reply #62 on: December 22, 2009, 18:38:23 »
I am not a recruiter, but it is my understanding that the min. initial contract requirement for Log Officer (DEO) is 6 years.   :christmas happy:

Which applies only if one is to enter the Regular Force.  There is no such commitment required for the Reserves, although it may take that long to become qualified.    >:D
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Offline Otis

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Re: Logistics Officer - Sea [Merged]
« Reply #63 on: December 23, 2009, 09:16:15 »
I AM a recruiter, and the minimum contract for Direct Entry Logistics Officer for the Regular Force IS  6 years.
Since I've been on the new medication, it's become MUCH easier to ignore the Stupid people.

Offline nick_the_guy

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Re: Logistics Officer - Sea [Merged]
« Reply #64 on: February 10, 2010, 16:32:31 »
Where did you see a list of specialty courses? I'm interested in seeing it. To me, administration is a very broad definition meaning management. All of the specializations listed in recruiting information (i.e. Finance, HRM, Supply Chain, Transport and Food Services) represent how the Canadian Forces group functions that would ultimately require administration.

Offline Aerobicrunner

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Re: Logistics Officer - Sea [Merged]
« Reply #66 on: February 10, 2010, 18:45:02 »
Denied! I'm not in the military currently but thanks for the link.

Offline Monsoon

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Re: Logistics Officer - Sea [Merged]
« Reply #67 on: February 10, 2010, 19:22:54 »
There actually used to be a distinct officer trade called Pers Admin that was responsible for some of the sort of things you might associate with human resources in a civilian organization It was merged with the Logistics trade in the late 90s. There are various takes on the meaningfulness of Pers Admin as a separate trade, but I, for one, haven't heard anyone complain that it shouldn't have been merged.

That being said, admin in the broad sense it's generally used refers to a variety of management support functions that will vary from one type of unit to the next. For instance, at my unit the AdminO hasn't been a Logistics officer in recent memory, though there would be nothing stopping that. For us, it's an any-trade job.

Offline Aerobicrunner

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Re: Logistics Officer - Sea [Merged]
« Reply #68 on: February 11, 2010, 10:43:41 »
Specialties for Log below.  HRM requirements further below.

Amended Date: 2004/02/01 MOS ID: 00328
Approval Date: 2001/01/01   
 
Logistics
LOG
 
Special Force (Mobilization)
00328.3.N.01 Logistics – Air [LOG – AIR]
00328.3.N.02 Logistics – Land [LOG – LAND]
00328.3.N.03 Logistics – Sea [LOG – SEA]
00328.3.N.04 Logistics [LOG]
00328.3.N.05 Logistics – Supply Chain Management [LOG – SCM]
00328.3.N.06 Logistics – Transportation [LOG – TN]
00328.3.N.07 Logistics – Human Resource Management [LOG – HRM]
00328.3.N.08 Logistics – Financial Management [LOG – FIN MGT]
00328.3.N.09 Logistics – Food Services [LOG – FS]

Primary Reserve
00328.2.P.04 Logistics – Air [LOG – AIR]
00328.2.P.05 Logistics – Land [LOG – LAND]
00328.2.P.06 Logistics – Sea Naval Reserve [LOG – SEA NAV RES]

Cadet Instructors Cadre
Not Applicable

Canadian Rangers
Not Applicable

Regular Force
00328.1.N.01 Logistics [LOG]
00328.1.N.02 Logistics – Air [LOG – AIR]
00328.1.N.03 Logistics – Land [LOG – LAND]
00328.1.N.04 Logistics – Sea [LOG – SEA]
 
 
Specialty
Unique
AEBH Defense Advanced Traffic Management (US)
AEBI Joint Services Movement Staff (UK)
AEBN Basic Quantitative Methods in Cost Analysis (US)
AEBP Logistics Executive Development
AEBQ Defense Depot Operations Management (US)
AEBR Defense Inventory Management (US)
AEBS Tactical Airlift Support – Ini
AEBU USN Supply Management
AEBW Ocean Transport/Marine Terminal Ops & Ship Loading/Stowage
AEBY Senior Transportation Management
AEBZ Warehouse Operations Management
AECE Material Handling Management
AECI Compensation Administration
AECJ Classification Officer
AECQ Internal Audit Management
AECU Mobile Support Equipment Officer/Special Purpose
AECW Mobile Air Mobility Support Officer
AECZ Supply Officer – Unit
AEDG NICP Management
AEDJ Advanced ABACIS Operation
AEDK Defence Security Assistance Management
AEDL Advanced Logistics
AERA Base Exchange Management
AERO Financial Information Systems
AICN Certified Management Accountant
AIHJ Logistics – Supply Chain Management
AIHK Logistics – Transportation
AIHL Logistics – Human Resource Management
AIHM Logistics – Financial Management
AIHN Logistics – Food Services
AIHR Postal Officer
AIHS Pay Accounting Officer

Common
AEBV Professional Accounting Program
AECV Movement Officer
AEME Land Operations Familiarization
AEUQ Basic Space Operations
AEXN Ammunition Technical Officer
AEXV NATO Advanced Improvised Explosive Device (IED) Disposal
AEXX Explosive Ordnance Disposal (EOD)(NATO) – Advanced
AGHV Defence Packaging Design
AGIR Tactical Airlift Support – Ini
AGIT Tpt and Storage of HAZMAT
AGSI Bio/Chemical Munitions Disposal
AHSB UN and Deployed Ops Log Sp
AHUR Dangerous Goods Certification
AHUS Loadmaster CC130 Hercules
AHYZ (RMS) Deployed Operations
AICB Airline Host Flight Op Sys
AICU Loadmaster Air Dispatch CC130
AICY US Military Std Transport
AIEJ ACE – Logistics Evaluator
AIML Maritime Terminal Operations Controller
AIRC Air Mobility Support Advanced (AMSA)
AJEA Army Tactical Operations - CSS
AJEJ Conventional Munitions Disposal (CMD) - Basic
AJEK Improvised Explosive Device Disposal (IEDD) Operator Assistant
AJFA Improvised Explosive Device Disposal (IEDD) Operator
AJFB Conventional Munitions Disposal (CMD) - Advanced
AJFI NATO Improvised Explosive Device Disposal – NATO IEDD
AJFN TACTICAL DEVICE EXPLOITATION
AJHW Land Force Unit Commanding Officer
AJJN NATO Explosive Ordinance Disposal Operator
AJSY CC177 MAMS LOADING
AKKS Ammunition Engineering Supplement
 

HRM Specialty

Approval Date: 2009/04/15   A-PD-055-003/PQ-001
SS AIHL
LOGISTICS – HUMAN RESOURCE MANAGEMENT


Military Occupational Structure (MOS)

1. Applicable to the following components (MOS ID):

   Special Force (Mobilization)
   00328.3.N.01   Logistics – Air [LOG – AIR]
   00328.3.N.02   Logistics – Land [LOG – LAND]
   00328.3.N.03   Logistics – Sea [LOG – SEA]
   
   Primary Reserve
   Not Applicable

   Cadet Instructors Cadre
   Not Applicable

   Canadian Rangers
   Not Applicable

   Regular Force
   00328.1.N.02   Logistics – Air [LOG – AIR]
   00328.1.N.03   Logistics – Land [LOG – LAND]
   00328.1.N.04   Logistics – Sea [LOG – SEA]

Functional Description
2. Possession of this specialty will enable personnel to manage human resources within the Department of National Defence

Working Conditions
3. The working conditions for this specialty are not more stringent than those listed in the applicable Officer General Specification (OGS) or in the Occupation Specification(s) (OS).

Prerequisite
4. Personnel must meet the following requirements to be selected for this specialty:
   a.   be Logistics - Sea, or Logistics - Land, or Logistics - Air qualified

Method of Qualification
5. Formal Training   Personnel shall be awarded the qualification and achieve certification after completion of a formal course.

 


Offline Log Offr

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Re: Logistics Officer - Sea [Merged]
« Reply #69 on: February 13, 2010, 00:07:20 »
Human Resources (HR) is a sub-specialty of Logistics Officer. Once you are a Logistics Officer you specialize in Supply or Transport or Finance or Food Services. Those are your "base" specialties.  As a young Captain, after or during your first tour of duty in a Unit, you will have the opportunity to take further sub-specialty training such as Postal, Ammo, QM, Movements, and.....HR.

In the Army, HR does not really exist. There are maybe 7 or 8 Army jobs (total 7 or 8 people in green uniforms) who are formally "HR" officers. For the most part, the Army views "administration" and HR as a function of command. So, in an infantry unit, the HR Officer is an infantry officer spending a couple years doing pers admin. In an artillery unit its an artillery officer, even in a CSS unit its a supply officer or an EME officer or a trucker.

The Air Force treats HR quite differently, and HR qualified officers in the Air Force will do the Unit admin, and will command admin organizations as well. Same in the Navy, although the Navy will pressure a guy to become "Sea Logistics" qualified - Supply and Finance specialties. Navy Admin tends to be done by CFR clerks or Sea Log offrs who decided to kill their careers by refusing to go to sea.

So....if you are desperate to do HR in the CF at the Officer level, become an Air Force Log Offr and ask for HR specialty. Otherwise, you will wind up quite dissatisfied.

Offline Log Offr

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Re: Logistics Officer - Sea [Merged]
« Reply #70 on: February 13, 2010, 01:27:28 »
Deebs, as an Artillery Officer you will have zero chance of getting funded post-grad for accounting. As well, if you do it on your own dime, the Artillery branch won't give you much credit for your work, as advanced accounting designations are quite useless to them.

As an Logistics Officer, after spending some time in a Finance job, you would have a slim shot at funded post-grad for an advanced accounting designation. But the application process is competitive. If you are a later-transfer into Logistics from another trade, you may not have much of a chance at getting funded post-grad from the Log Branch. They are more likely to send someone who has been a Log Officer from the outset and therefore has a better breadth and depth of employment within the various Logistics/Finance functions that exist in the CF. It may be all just "accounting" to outsiders, but within the Finance world there are specialties, tiers of Comptroller and command positions, more and less desirable types of finance work, etc, that contribute to a well-rounded and broadly-employable finance officer with potential to hold the highest staff and command positions within the Finance world. Its not just education, its experience that matters. And a large chunk of your experience would be in Artillery. And you will be quite a bit older than your new peers. 

You aren't going to be able to spend 10 years having "fun" in the Artillery then just walk across to the Logistics Branch as a Finance Officer, with your career on the same track as an accountant who has done all those Finance jobs at all the levels. Your career is more likely to stop dead in its tracks for a few years, maybe forever. You will be an unknown entity in the Log Branch and although your Artillery experience will be useful in some jobs, overall you simply won't know what you are doing as a Logistician/Finance Officer, you won't have any experience as a Logistician/Finance Officer, and you won't have any senior officers in the Log Branch who know you and are looking out for you. Assuming you have a good head on your shoulders, and depending on when you transfer into Log, you will most likely be able to make Major, and maybe even LCol down the road. But......some jobs and opportunities will be lost to you because of the experience you missed by being an Artillery officer for....a decade or whatever. The Log Branch values occupational transfers (and maybe I'm painting too bleak a picture here), but to obtain post-grad, an Arty Officer who transfers into the Log Branch will be unlikely to unseat a more experienced Finance Officer who has all the requisite check marks over his career and has the potential to become a Log/Finance Colonel or General. But, as I said above, you can still have a productive and enjoyable second career in Finance, it just may not be as full as it could have been, had you joined Finance as a 2Lt.

Also note that no one will force you to transfer from Artillery to Log, no matter what your degree is in. Good luck, whichever way you go.

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Re: Logistics Officer - Sea [Merged]
« Reply #71 on: February 13, 2010, 01:47:22 »
Personnel Selection Officer has some HR stuff associated with it.

 http://www.forces.ca/html/personnelselectionofficer_reg_en.aspx


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Re: Logistics Officer - Sea [Merged]
« Reply #72 on: February 13, 2010, 08:07:36 »
Really, our HR capability is split -

"Operators" performing HR roles in units/at bases
Personnel Selection Officers
Training Development Officers http://www.forces.ca/html/trainingdevelopmentofficer_reg_en.aspx
Log HR

There is a study being conducted at DPGR regarding ways to streamline our HR capability.  Looks like the conclusion will be along the lines of status quo, maintaining separate streams of specialization.  But my crystal ball may be cloudy!
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Offline nick_the_guy

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Re: Logistics Officer - Sea [Merged]
« Reply #73 on: April 05, 2010, 04:28:12 »
I would like to know how long each of the following courses are, I can't seem to find a lot of information on the web. These are the courses listed on the CF recruiting website for logistics officers for the navy:

- Basic Officer Training Course (15 weeks)

- Environmental Officers Common Course (is this the Navy equivalent of the Army Common Phase?)

- Logistics Officer Common Course

- Logistics Sub-Occupational (Environmental) Training (is this an actual course or just on-the-job training? The recruiting website is unclear.)

I also asked in a separate thread the VIE for a logistics officer and was told 5 years. I came across a webpage that says that 3 years is the optimal length and gave a table to assist in determining the length of the VIE. 0-199 training days = 3 year VIE. Is it possible to sign on for 3 years and complete the logistics officer (navy) training (including the 1 year tour of duty)?

http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/pd/pi-ip/05-05-ann-b-eng.asp

Offline gcclarke

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Re: Logistics Officer - Sea [Merged]
« Reply #74 on: April 06, 2010, 10:28:10 »
The VIE for LOG officers depends upon the entry plan. For DEO, it's 6 years. For ROTP it's 10 years. Here's your reference. http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/pd/pi-ip/05-05-ann-a1-eng.asp

The Naval Environmental Training Program for Officers (NETPO) lasted 9 weeks when I took it in 2006. I can't really say about any of the other LOG specific courses.
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