Author Topic: Cadets Won‘t March  (Read 25676 times)

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Cadets Won‘t March
« on: September 24, 2002, 08:14:00 »
Posted by "Jason King" <indian_jew@hotmail.com> on Thu, 07 Jun 2001 19:32:37 -0500
For all the cadets and vets lurking...
I read an article on the front page of Tuesday‘s National Post which
reported that local cadet units in southern Ontario London and Toronto were
specifically mentioned refused to march in the annual Warrior‘s Day Parade
because it suggusted overtones of child soldiery. In London the parades name
was changed to Veterens‘s Parade due to the fact that not enough vets can be
marshalled to march. The local cadet and reserve units are needed as
"fillers."
Very sad and petty.
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Re: Cadets Won‘t March
« Reply #1 on: September 24, 2002, 08:15:00 »
Posted by Juno847627709@aol.com on Thu, 7 Jun 2001 21:09:34 EDT
That‘s disgusting.
    A prime example of people making decisions who don‘t know ****.
    I‘m sure we could all, specifically the ex-cadets, go on about this for
hours, and several blown vessels later, perhaps figure out what to do about
it...
    As John so aptly put it a while ago,"After several deep breaths in a
paper bag..."
    "Here‘s to us and those like us."
            -Matt
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Re: Cadets Won‘t March
« Reply #2 on: September 24, 2002, 08:15:00 »
Posted by "Rob A." <carversbench@csolve.net> on Thu, 7 Jun 2001 21:55:11 -0400
            I thought I had heard everything...... now this.
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
   I
thought I had
  heard everything...... now this.
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Re: Cadets Won‘t March
« Reply #3 on: September 24, 2002, 08:15:00 »
Posted by "Donald Schepens" <a.schepens@home.com> on Thu, 7 Jun 2001 20:01:57 -0600
There really is carrying political correctness too far.
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Rob A.
  To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
  Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2001 7:55 PM
  Subject: Re: Cadets Won‘t March
              I thought I had heard everything...... now this.
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
There really is carrying political
correctness too
far.
  ----- Original Message -----
  From:
  Rob
  A.
  To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
  Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2001
7:55
  PM
  Subject: Re: Cadets Won‘t
March
 
 
     I
thought I
    had heard everything...... now this.
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Re: Cadets Won‘t March
« Reply #4 on: September 24, 2002, 08:16:00 »
Posted by "The MacFarlanes‘" <desrtrat@fastq.com> on Thu, 7 Jun 2001 19:46:05 -0700
Maybe its happened all along, and I‘ve never noticed - but it seems
lately, I get a lot of posts out of sequence........
MJM
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Rob A.
  To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
  Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2001 6:55 PM
  Subject: Re: Cadets Won‘t March
              I thought I had heard everything...... now this.
Maybe its happened
all along, and
I‘ve never noticed - but it seems lately, I get a lot of posts out of
sequence........
MJM
  ----- Original Message -----
  From:
  Rob
  A.
  To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
  Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2001
6:55
  PM
  Subject: Re: Cadets Won‘t
March
 
 
     I
thought I
    had heard everything...... now this.
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RE: Cadets Won‘t March
« Reply #5 on: September 24, 2002, 08:16:00 »
Posted by "Steve Harwood" <sharwood@iprimus.ca> on Thu, 7 Jun 2001 23:48:26 -0400
Well it didn‘t rain on my "parade" tonight.  I got enrolled and sworn in at
11th FD RGMT.  To Matt and the others who went through this recently I can
now share in your pride as  it sure was a proud moment for  my family and I.
Later in the evening we honoured those soldiers who recently returned from
Peacekeeping missions in Golan Heights, Cyprus, and Bosnia.
Sad though those think that a Warriors Parade "suggested overtones of child
soldiery"...ooh so sad.
Steve OFCDT
Ubique now that finally feels good
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-army-list@CdnArmy.ca [mailto:owner-army-list@CdnArmy.ca]On
Behalf Of Juno847627709@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2001 9:10 PM
To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
Subject: Re: Cadets Won‘t March
That‘s disgusting.
    A prime example of people making decisions who don‘t know ****.
    I‘m sure we could all, specifically the ex-cadets, go on about this for
hours, and several blown vessels later, perhaps figure out what to do about
it...
    As John so aptly put it a while ago,"After several deep breaths in a
paper bag..."
    "Here‘s to us and those like us."
            -Matt
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Re: Cadets Won‘t March
« Reply #6 on: September 24, 2002, 08:16:00 »
Posted by "The MacFarlanes‘" <desrtrat@fastq.com> on Thu, 7 Jun 2001 21:14:59 -0700
Congratulations, and a Gunner too!
MacF
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Harwood"
To:
Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2001 8:48 PM
Subject: RE: Cadets Won‘t March
> Well it didn‘t rain on my "parade" tonight.  I got enrolled and sworn in
at
> 11th FD RGMT.  To Matt and the others who went through this recently I can
> now share in your pride as  it sure was a proud moment for  my family and
I.
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Re: Cadets Won‘t March
« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2002, 08:17:00 »
Posted by "Jason King" <indian_jew@hotmail.com> on Fri, 08 Jun 2001 01:22:01 -0500
Just to add on, here is the quotations the Post got from Col. Hardy, the
director of cadets,
"We don‘t want the name associated with children and cadets seen as warriors
or warrior wannabes. Certainly no youth group in this country respects and
understands the military traditions like the cadets do... but they are not
warriors, they are not child soldiers and that‘s a perception we want to get
rid of."
"Veterans may have to accept the cold hard reality that times are changing
and warriors are disappearing. There may be a day in this country where we
don‘t have warriors and that will be a good thing because it would mean we
haven‘t been to war."
One interesting note is that this col. Hardy said "we" want to get rid of
the perception that cadets are child soldiers. Didn‘t know one really
existed. I spent 6 years in cadets and can‘t remember anyone ever seriously
mentioning anything like that. But I have read online more people brining
the subject up, maybe its becomming a more widely held perception.
Jason King
>From: Juno847627709@aol.com
>Reply-To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
>To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
>Subject: Re: Cadets Won‘t March
>Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 21:09:34 EDT
>
>That‘s disgusting.
>     A prime example of people making decisions who don‘t know ****.
>     I‘m sure we could all, specifically the ex-cadets, go on about this
>for
>hours, and several blown vessels later, perhaps figure out what to do about
>it...
>     As John so aptly put it a while ago,"After several deep breaths in a
>paper bag..."
>     "Here‘s to us and those like us."
>             -Matt
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Re: Cadets Won‘t March
« Reply #8 on: September 24, 2002, 08:17:00 »
Posted by "Ian  McGregor" <imcgrego@hotmail.com> on Thu, 7 Jun 2001 07:28:48 -0400
"There may be a day in this country where we don‘t have warriors and that
will be a good thing because it would mean we haven‘t been to war."
                        - Col. Hardy
It would also mean we‘ve stopped training for war, and as a result are
unable to ensure our own security or provide Peacekeepers to any operation.
I cannot see the day that there is no longer a need for warriors coming
during my lifetime.
Ian
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jason King"
To:
Sent: Friday, June 08, 2001 2:22 AM
Subject: Re: Cadets Won‘t March
> Just to add on, here is the quotations the Post got from Col. Hardy, the
> director of cadets,
>
> "We don‘t want the name associated with children and cadets seen as
warriors
> or warrior wannabes. Certainly no youth group in this country respects and
> understands the military traditions like the cadets do... but they are not
> warriors, they are not child soldiers and that‘s a perception we want to
get
> rid of."
>
> "Veterans may have to accept the cold hard reality that times are changing
> and warriors are disappearing. There may be a day in this country where we
> don‘t have warriors and that will be a good thing because it would mean we
> haven‘t been to war."
>
> One interesting note is that this col. Hardy said "we" want to get rid of
> the perception that cadets are child soldiers. Didn‘t know one really
> existed. I spent 6 years in cadets and can‘t remember anyone ever
seriously
> mentioning anything like that. But I have read online more people brining
> the subject up, maybe its becomming a more widely held perception.
>
> Jason King
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Re: Cadets Won‘t March
« Reply #9 on: September 24, 2002, 08:17:00 »
Posted by Juno847627709@aol.com on Fri, 8 Jun 2001 07:25:07 EDT
    I had no idea that a commissioned officer held that view. I thought it
was some slimy politician.
    The pride that I, and my fellow cadets, felt due to being affiliated with
a line infantry unit was very immense. Indeed, if you associated ‘us‘ and
‘them‘ together, it made our day.
    Is there no one with a coupla heavy bars in the position to oppose this
thing, or other things like it?
   
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Re: Cadets Won‘t March
« Reply #10 on: September 24, 2002, 08:18:00 »
Posted by Juno847627709@aol.com on Fri, 8 Jun 2001 07:22:34 EDT
An ‘official‘ congratulations, Steve.
    Ahem, OCdt Harwood.
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Re: Cadets Won‘t March
« Reply #11 on: September 24, 2002, 08:18:00 »
Posted by Gunner <randr1@home.com> on Fri, 08 Jun 2001 07:25:37 -0600
Can‘t have too many of those.
The MacFarlanes‘ wrote:
>
> Congratulations, and a Gunner too!
> MacF
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steve Harwood"
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2001 8:48 PM
> Subject: RE: Cadets Won‘t March
>
> > Well it didn‘t rain on my "parade" tonight.  I got enrolled and sworn in
> at
> > 11th FD RGMT.  To Matt and the others who went through this recently I can
> > now share in your pride as  it sure was a proud moment for  my family and
> I.
>
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RE: Cadets Won‘t March
« Reply #12 on: September 24, 2002, 08:18:00 »
Posted by "Harwood, Steve" <SHarwood@karmax.com> on Fri, 8 Jun 2001 09:27:03 -0400
This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.
Thanks, Gunner, Macf, Matt, Sean.  Glad to be counted among you.
As for the Cadets marching, why couldn‘t the group decide on marching with
the vets to show them some honour. They seem to have forgotten and so have
a great deal of the Canadian public  that they can march freely because it
was won for them.
Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: Gunner [mailto:randr1@home.com]
Sent: Friday, June 08, 2001 9:26 AM
To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
Subject: Re: Cadets Won‘t March
Can‘t have too many of those.
The MacFarlanes‘ wrote:
>
> Congratulations, and a Gunner too!
> MacF
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steve Harwood"
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2001 8:48 PM
> Subject: RE: Cadets Won‘t March
>
> > Well it didn‘t rain on my "parade" tonight.  I got enrolled and sworn in
> at
> > 11th FD RGMT.  To Matt and the others who went through this recently I
can
> > now share in your pride as  it sure was a proud moment for  my family
and
> I.
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
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> to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
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CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE:  This message contains information which may be
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RE: Cadets Won‘t March
Thanks, Gunner, Macf, Matt, Sean. Glad to be
counted among you.
As for the Cadets marching, why couldn‘t the group
decide on marching with the vets to show them some honour. They seem to
have forgotten and so have a great deal of the Canadian public
that they can march freely because it was won for them.
Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: Gunner [mailto:randr1@home.com]
Sent: Friday, June 08, 2001 9:26 AM
To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
Subject: Re: Cadets Won‘t March
Can‘t have too many of those.
The MacFarlanes‘ wrote:
gt
gt Congratulations, and a Gunner too!
gt MacF
gt ----- Original Message -----
gt From: quotSteve Harwoodquot
ltsharwood@iprimus.cagt
gt To: ltarmy-list@CdnArmy.cagt
gt Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2001 8:48 PM
gt Subject: RE: Cadets Won‘t March
gt
gt gt Well it didn‘t rain on my
quotparadequot tonight. I got enrolled and sworn in
gt at
gt gt 11th FD RGMT. To Matt and the others
who went through this recently I can
gt gt now share in your pride as it sure
was a proud moment for my family and
gt I.
gt
gt
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gt NOTE: To remove yourself from this list,
send a message
gt to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you
wish to
gt remove, with the line quotunsubscribe
army-listquot in the
gt message body.
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Re: Cadets Won‘t March
« Reply #13 on: September 24, 2002, 08:18:00 »
Posted by Adam Wainwright <ajmw@home.com> on Fri, 08 Jun 2001 13:42:04 -0700
Jason,
I‘m not to sure of your experence, but from what I can tell you while just
closing a 6 1/2 year carrer in cadets as a CWO there is a general public
perception that cadets are "child soldiers" just because of the military mature
of the program.  Not to mention that the Canadian public is totally misinformed
about the military and there abilities.  Cadets is slightly better, mainly
because they are more a "part of the community" than say a regiment of the
regular force.  The  of cadets also contribute signifantly 55,000 last year.
Also keep in mind that many "kids" join cadets to be child soldiers.  My best
memorys are from when I was stuck in edmonton good ole military lost our travel
docs! for 4 days in the middle of the summer in 96‘ and a PPCLI Mcpl showed us
around and took us to the range and let us fire C7s and C9s full of blanks.
For the 9 of us there it was really cool to shoot a machine gun or assult rifle
at age 13 or 14.  Kids join to be differnet and do "cool" stuff.  They want to
be child soldiers...well most of them.
To address the fourm:
 I think that we should make no move to not having warriors.  When we have no
warriors, we will need then most.  The warrior figure has been part of history
since history began...is that going to change now, because of a small social
shift in a country.  I dont think so.
If they were my cadets, they would have marched.  No order should go against
what we have today because of a shrinking group.  One must also understand that
there is a huge push in the CCM to make cadets look as good and fun as
possible...part of the reason I‘m leaving.
Matt I love your comments, as per usual.
Comments
-Adam
Jason King wrote:
> Just to add on, here is the quotations the Post got from Col. Hardy, the
> director of cadets,
>
> "We don‘t want the name associated with children and cadets seen as warriors
> or warrior wannabes. Certainly no youth group in this country respects and
> understands the military traditions like the cadets do... but they are not
> warriors, they are not child soldiers and that‘s a perception we want to get
> rid of."
>
> "Veterans may have to accept the cold hard reality that times are changing
> and warriors are disappearing. There may be a day in this country where we
> don‘t have warriors and that will be a good thing because it would mean we
> haven‘t been to war."
>
> One interesting note is that this col. Hardy said "we" want to get rid of
> the perception that cadets are child soldiers. Didn‘t know one really
> existed. I spent 6 years in cadets and can‘t remember anyone ever seriously
> mentioning anything like that. But I have read online more people brining
> the subject up, maybe its becomming a more widely held perception.
>
> Jason King
>
> >From: Juno847627709@aol.com
> >Reply-To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
> >To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
> >Subject: Re: Cadets Won‘t March
> >Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 21:09:34 EDT
> >
> >That‘s disgusting.
> >     A prime example of people making decisions who don‘t know ****.
> >     I‘m sure we could all, specifically the ex-cadets, go on about this
> >for
> >hours, and several blown vessels later, perhaps figure out what to do about
> >it...
> >     As John so aptly put it a while ago,"After several deep breaths in a
> >paper bag..."
> >     "Here‘s to us and those like us."
> >             -Matt
> >--------------------------------------------------------
> >NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> >to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> >remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> >message body.
>
> _________________________________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at  http://www.hotmail.com.
>
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Re: Cadets Won‘t March
« Reply #14 on: September 24, 2002, 08:19:00 »
Posted by "Jason King" <indian_jew@hotmail.com> on Sat, 09 Jun 2001 02:08:40 -0500
Adam,
I just finished my sixth and last year as an Air Cadet, going off to
school in the fall, looking at getting into a reserve unit, but that‘s
another story.
I live in a small town and in my community our squadron is quite well
respected. We do a fair deal of community service work, have lots of good
P.R. in the local newspaper, and are pretty well known. I have never
experienced anyone in this town making referneces to us as "child soldiers."
Nor have I seen it as a big problem when away from home.
I agree 100 with you that so many of the young people who join cadets want
to play soldier. I did when I was 12. I‘m not advocating training 13 year
old cadets in armed combat. I do think that as you age, more interesting,
shall we say, opportunities be made available. I don‘t know what you army
guys do I hear different things from different people but in the air
element, the olny firearms we are exposed to are Daisy Air Rifles. I
constantly hear complaints from cadets at all levels to make the training
more difficult and challengingas well as many jokes about the air rifles.
I think this is a big problem among the older crowd. Once you get up to 16
or 17 years of age, drill and leadership classes alone can only hold so much
"excitement." The novelty can wear off after a few years and is a big reason
why units can have problems retaining senior cadets. The only incentive
offered for me to stay was the fact that I would be teaching and passing on
my knowledge. That‘s fine, but devoting so much time and energy to teaching
12 and 13 year olds subjects that they often seem disinterested in takes a
lot of discipline.
I think the entire training plan for the movement needs to be seriously
looked at. People in cadets share a common interest in the military, we
should be exposed to more of this stuff, not less. What we have left is a
shell of a program, leadership, citizenship, and physical fitness tha
latter being a joke, which is all o.k., but no one wants to spen all their
time picking up trash off a highway. If you ever get a change to look at
some old videos from the early 1990‘s and 1980‘s of cadet summer camps, take
it. The things they did looked like "fun" or at least they were difficult
and challenging. Cadets of those days had more responsability. I doubt that
the kids of those generations are any more war-like then those of today.
The Warrior‘s Day Parade article is one example of the new ideology in the
movement. The consistant re-education we got through CHAP is another. In the
air world, we dropped the words "senior" and "junior" from our summer camps
names because it became no longer acceptable to refer to cadets as being on
"junior" or "senior" courses. We now use words like "advanced" and
"introduction." Small, petty things like that are what really pisses me off.
Not to mention the feel-good publications sent out every so often, the Way
Ahead Process is the biggest example I can think of.
The Edmonton travel guys are bad for stuff like that. I worked in Winnipeg
Movements last summer :>
Jason
>From: Adam Wainwright
>Reply-To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
>To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
>Subject: Re: Cadets Won‘t March
>Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2001 13:42:04 -0700
>
>Jason,
>I‘m not to sure of your experence, but from what I can tell you while just
>closing a 6 1/2 year carrer in cadets as a CWO there is a general public
>perception that cadets are "child soldiers" just because of the military
>mature
>of the program.  Not to mention that the Canadian public is totally
>misinformed
>about the military and there abilities.  Cadets is slightly better, mainly
>because they are more a "part of the community" than say a regiment of the
>regular force.  The  of cadets also contribute signifantly 55,000 last
>year.
>Also keep in mind that many "kids" join cadets to be child soldiers.  My
>best
>memorys are from when I was stuck in edmonton good ole military lost our
>travel
>docs! for 4 days in the middle of the summer in 96‘ and a PPCLI Mcpl
>showed us
>around and took us to the range and let us fire C7s and C9s full of
>blanks.
>For the 9 of us there it was really cool to shoot a machine gun or assult
>rifle
>at age 13 or 14.  Kids join to be differnet and do "cool" stuff.  They want
>to
>be child soldiers...well most of them.
>
>To address the fourm:
>  I think that we should make no move to not having warriors.  When we have
>no
>warriors, we will need then most.  The warrior figure has been part of
>history
>since history began...is that going to change now, because of a small
>social
>shift in a country.  I dont think so.
>
>If they were my cadets, they would have marched.  No order should go
>against
>what we have today because of a shrinking group.  One must also understand
>that
>there is a huge push in the CCM to make cadets look as good and fun as
>possible...part of the reason I‘m leaving.
>
>Matt I love your comments, as per usual.
>
>Comments
>
>-Adam
>
>
_________________________________________________________________________
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Re: Cadets Won‘t March
« Reply #15 on: September 24, 2002, 08:20:00 »
Posted by Adam Wainwright <ajmw@home.com> on Sat, 09 Jun 2001 00:29:12 -0700
Jason,
 Many thanks for your supurb response.  I to am an Air Cadet, I talk in army
terms here, to avoid confusion I agree with all of the points that you brought
up.  Your points about the novelty wearing off could not be more true!  I do
strongly agree that cadets should be more militarized instead of less.  Not to
train cadets as soilders but to provide a challange for them.  Throughout my
time I have found that I was always attracted to the challanges.  And many
people like to be challanged, espically teenagers.  Living on the west coast, I
compleatly echo your thoughts about CHAP and this ‘way ahead process‘.  Sure,
its great for the Ottawa squardons that get all that cool gear now but when we
see it on the coast in 10 years it should be nice.  I do know that this happens,
I have a close friend that was the CWO of 872 for a few years and they had it
all.  Gore-tex jackets to test and all the new uniform ideas.  Oh well, they
were the best times of those years.  Sad that they don‘t make cadets like they
used to.  I would love to chat if you have some time.
best regards to all
-adam
Jason King wrote:
> Adam,
>
> I just finished my sixth and last year as an Air Cadet, going off to
> school in the fall, looking at getting into a reserve unit, but that‘s
> another story.
>
> I live in a small town and in my community our squadron is quite well
> respected. We do a fair deal of community service work, have lots of good
> P.R. in the local newspaper, and are pretty well known. I have never
> experienced anyone in this town making referneces to us as "child soldiers."
> Nor have I seen it as a big problem when away from home.
>
> I agree 100 with you that so many of the young people who join cadets want
> to play soldier. I did when I was 12. I‘m not advocating training 13 year
> old cadets in armed combat. I do think that as you age, more interesting,
> shall we say, opportunities be made available. I don‘t know what you army
> guys do I hear different things from different people but in the air
> element, the olny firearms we are exposed to are Daisy Air Rifles. I
> constantly hear complaints from cadets at all levels to make the training
> more difficult and challengingas well as many jokes about the air rifles.
> I think this is a big problem among the older crowd. Once you get up to 16
> or 17 years of age, drill and leadership classes alone can only hold so much
> "excitement." The novelty can wear off after a few years and is a big reason
> why units can have problems retaining senior cadets. The only incentive
> offered for me to stay was the fact that I would be teaching and passing on
> my knowledge. That‘s fine, but devoting so much time and energy to teaching
> 12 and 13 year olds subjects that they often seem disinterested in takes a
> lot of discipline.
>
> I think the entire training plan for the movement needs to be seriously
> looked at. People in cadets share a common interest in the military, we
> should be exposed to more of this stuff, not less. What we have left is a
> shell of a program, leadership, citizenship, and physical fitness tha
> latter being a joke, which is all o.k., but no one wants to spen all their
> time picking up trash off a highway. If you ever get a change to look at
> some old videos from the early 1990‘s and 1980‘s of cadet summer camps, take
> it. The things they did looked like "fun" or at least they were difficult
> and challenging. Cadets of those days had more responsability. I doubt that
> the kids of those generations are any more war-like then those of today.
>
> The Warrior‘s Day Parade article is one example of the new ideology in the
> movement. The consistant re-education we got through CHAP is another. In the
> air world, we dropped the words "senior" and "junior" from our summer camps
> names because it became no longer acceptable to refer to cadets as being on
> "junior" or "senior" courses. We now use words like "advanced" and
> "introduction." Small, petty things like that are what really pisses me off.
> Not to mention the feel-good publications sent out every so often, the Way
> Ahead Process is the biggest example I can think of.
>
> The Edmonton travel guys are bad for stuff like that. I worked in Winnipeg
> Movements last summer :>
>
> Jason
> >From: Adam Wainwright
> >Reply-To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
> >To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
> >Subject: Re: Cadets Won‘t March
> >Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2001 13:42:04 -0700
> >
> >Jason,
> >I‘m not to sure of your experence, but from what I can tell you while just
> >closing a 6 1/2 year carrer in cadets as a CWO there is a general public
> >perception that cadets are "child soldiers" just because of the military
> >mature
> >of the program.  Not to mention that the Canadian public is totally
> >misinformed
> >about the military and there abilities.  Cadets is slightly better, mainly
> >because they are more a "part of the community" than say a regiment of the
> >regular force.  The  of cadets also contribute signifantly 55,000 last
> >year.
> >Also keep in mind that many "kids" join cadets to be child soldiers.  My
> >best
> >memorys are from when I was stuck in edmonton good ole military lost our
> >travel
> >docs! for 4 days in the middle of the summer in 96‘ and a PPCLI Mcpl
> >showed us
> >around and took us to the range and let us fire C7s and C9s full of
> >blanks.
> >For the 9 of us there it was really cool to shoot a machine gun or assult
> >rifle
> >at age 13 or 14.  Kids join to be differnet and do "cool" stuff.  They want
> >to
> >be child soldiers...well most of them.
> >
> >To address the fourm:
> >  I think that we should make no move to not having warriors.  When we have
> >no
> >warriors, we will need then most.  The warrior figure has been part of
> >history
> >since history began...is that going to change now, because of a small
> >social
> >shift in a country.  I dont think so.
> >
> >If they were my cadets, they would have marched.  No order should go
> >against
> >what we have today because of a shrinking group.  One must also understand
> >that
> >there is a huge push in the CCM to make cadets look as good and fun as
> >possible...part of the reason I‘m leaving.
> >
> >Matt I love your comments, as per usual.
> >
> >Comments
> >
> >-Adam
> >
> >
> _________________________________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at  http://www.hotmail.com.
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
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> to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> message body.
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Re: Cadets Won‘t March
« Reply #16 on: September 24, 2002, 08:20:00 »
Posted by Juno847627709@aol.com on Sat, 9 Jun 2001 07:20:07 EDT
Here‘s wishing my former RSM mirrored you two a little more.
   
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Re: Cadets Won‘t March
« Reply #17 on: September 24, 2002, 08:20:00 »
Posted by "F. A." <zzzzzzz@telusplanet.net> on Sat, 09 Jun 2001 10:25:21 -0600
--------------B4E835FEE853B2A216193DA9
Jason and all,
            It‘s a funny thing... 20  years ago when I was an army cadet, we had
the same comments in so many words, being made from people in the same
positions. Much of this can be attributed to the civilianization of NDHQ. When
you have liberal appointed civilian masters with a liberal-socialist elite view
of the rest of us, naturally you‘ll have this form of pandering. I hold Col
Hardy in high respect. What he said is accurate. It‘s all about perception and
the squeaky wheel: One or two entirely misinformed, pacifists with nothing
better to do, phone their MP to complain about something they know nothing about
and... tada!
            However, if you were to take a country-wide poll, based on facts, an
overwhelming majority would support the cadet movement, what it stands for and
what it produces. Sadly the facts are misconstrued by some individuals
apparently with an  axe to grind. Ignorance is bliss.
rant-mode off
Francois Arseneault
Jason King wrote:
> Just to add on, here is the quotations the Post got from Col. Hardy, the
> director of cadets,
>
> "We don‘t want the name associated with children and cadets seen as warriors
> or warrior wannabes. Certainly no youth group in this country respects and
> understands the military traditions like the cadets do... but they are not
> warriors, they are not child soldiers and that‘s a perception we want to get
> rid of."
>
> "Veterans may have to accept the cold hard reality that times are changing
> and warriors are disappearing. There may be a day in this country where we
> don‘t have warriors and that will be a good thing because it would mean we
> haven‘t been to war."
>
> One interesting note is that this col. Hardy said "we" want to get rid of
> the perception that cadets are child soldiers. Didn‘t know one really
> existed. I spent 6 years in cadets and can‘t remember anyone ever seriously
> mentioning anything like that. But I have read online more people brining
> the subject up, maybe its becomming a more widely held perception.
>
> Jason King
>
> >From: Juno847627709@aol.com
> >Reply-To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
> >To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
> >Subject: Re: Cadets Won‘t March
> >Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 21:09:34 EDT
> >
> >That‘s disgusting.
> >     A prime example of people making decisions who don‘t know ****.
> >     I‘m sure we could all, specifically the ex-cadets, go on about this
> >for
> >hours, and several blown vessels later, perhaps figure out what to do about
> >it...
> >     As John so aptly put it a while ago,"After several deep breaths in a
> >paper bag..."
> >     "Here‘s to us and those like us."
> >             -Matt
> >--------------------------------------------------------
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> >to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
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> >message body.
>
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>
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--------------B4E835FEE853B2A216193DA9
 name="zzzzzzz.vcf"
 filename="zzzzzzz.vcf"
begin:vcard
n:ArseneaultFrancois
telwork:403 282-6100
x-mozilla-html:FALSE
url:http://www.avscanada.com/
org:AVS IncCorporate  Broadcast Video Production since 1987
version:2.1
emailinternet:zzzzzzz@telusplanet.net
title:Francois Arseneault - camera/editor
adrquoted-printable:Military, Motorsports and severe environment specialists=3B =0D=0ADPS Velocity Edit suite=3B =0D=0ABeta SP camera=3B =0D=0AUnderwater unitCalgaryAlbertaCanada
x-mozilla-cpt:-4288
fn:www.avscanada.com
end:vcard
--------------B4E835FEE853B2A216193DA9--
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Re: Cadets WILL march!
« Reply #18 on: September 24, 2002, 08:20:00 »
Posted by Eric Cozens <ericoz@sympatico.ca> on Sat, 09 Jun 2001 14:29:09 -0400
G‘Day All!
There are more and more items
that prompt me to emerge from my ‘lurker‘ position and the issue of Warrior‘s
Day is one of them.
I am horrified to note that a
person who has achieved the honour and distinction of being a Colonel voices
thoughts to which he is entitled, purporting them to be those of the
populace at large. Only the misinformed and those ignorant of the
actual role, aims and objectives of the Cadet movement could be expected
to offer such an opinion. For what it is worth I offer my thoughts
and include an update on the furor:
LCol Jack Lee Ret‘d, ex Commanding
Officer of 709 Toronto Communication Regiment, is also President of the
CNE‘s Warriors Day Parade Council. It all started back in 2000 when
the Parade executives found that there were fewer Cadets parading.
During the off season the Parade executive decided to take a proactive
approach by consulting with the Cadet League. and D- Cadets DND‘s area
of responsibility to obtain more support for the 2001 Parade. In
that approach Col Lee made a Powerpoint presentation to inform those concerned
of the history, reasons for continuance and objectives of the Warriors
Day Parade. The Area Cadet Office shared the presentation with Central
Regional Area Cadets in Borden. The CO the Central Region initially
decided that Cadet youths are NOT to be seen as Warriors and that D Cadets
will not support the Parade unless the Council change the name and drop
the term "Warrior" The CO was informed that an eighty year old tradition
would not be changed just to support his personal perception.
Col Lee then consulted with General
Legge and General Lewis and also the Army Cadet League in Toronto.
Thanks to Marion McDonald of the Army Cadet League, the CO of Central Area
was convinced to give the Warrior‘s Day a years grace and support for the
year 2001.
The Western Fair Warrior‘s Day
had the same concern and they changed the name to 2001 Veteran‘s Day
hardly appropriate releasing the information to the various organizations
who normally take part in the Parade. A concerned Veteran in Ottawa
wrote the Ottawa Citizen and that‘s when the ‘Citizen‘ championed the cause.
Through several interviews the ‘Citizen‘ published a scathing article about
the D-Cadets requesting a change of the Parade name. The article
made the front page in the National Post June 5. Several Talk Shows
had veterans calling in to voice dismay. Col Lee was on camera with
Global TV regarding this matter as well.
The Warriors Day Parade Council
has unanimously voted that the Warrior‘s Day Parade name will remain unchanged
until there is no one left to parade. Some as they are entitled
may observe all of this as a "storm in a teacup". However my own
view, for what it is worth is that this is just another item which albeit
indirectly is contributing to the image of a military force of lesser
consequence. As I have stated ad nauseum, we need more and
more to develop that which is positive about the Army and the Forces in
general. If the Cadets are not to be viewed in a military light then
why are they called Army, Air Force or Navy Cadets? I had the honour
to be present at the Annual Inspection of the 2605 Cadets at FYA recently
and I was impressed with the great turnout and the "pomp and circumstance"
with such traditions as the presentation of Awards for developed skills
and achievement to the presentation of the Sword and appointment of the
new RSM . What is really significant is the pride and self assurance
of the Cadets themselves. I know how much they enjoy and are
proud of their affiliation to a Regiment and the involvement in military
affairs. Shame on those who pander to the petty and unsupported views
of what at least I perceive as a minority.
Thanks for reading this - back
to the "lurkers lair"
Eric Arte et Marte
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Re: Cadets WILL march!
« Reply #19 on: September 24, 2002, 08:21:00 »
Posted by "F. A." <zzzzzzz@telusplanet.net> on Sat, 09 Jun 2001 13:15:50 -0600
--------------3F734FD33958FA03A578C240
 boundary="------------17AE7A10BAACAF8444FD01CF"
--------------17AE7A10BAACAF8444FD01CF
Eric,
        Well Said!!
Francois
Eric Cozens wrote:
> G‘Day All!
> There are more and more items that prompt me to emerge from my
> ‘lurker‘ position and the issue of Warrior‘s Day is one of them.
> I am horrified to note that a person who has achieved the honour and
> distinction of being a Colonel voices thoughts to which he is
> entitled, purporting them to be those of the populace at large.  Only
> the misinformed and those ignorant of the actual role, aims and
> objectives of the Cadet movement could be expected to offer such an
> opinion.  For what it is worth I offer my thoughts and include an
> update on the furor:
>
> LCol Jack Lee Ret‘d, ex Commanding Officer of 709 Toronto
> Communication Regiment, is also President of the CNE‘s Warriors Day
> Parade Council.  It all started back in 2000 when the Parade
> executives found that there were fewer Cadets parading.  During the
> off season the Parade executive decided to take a proactive approach
> by consulting with the Cadet League. and D- Cadets DND‘s area of
> responsibility to obtain more support for the 2001 Parade.  In that
> approach Col Lee made a Powerpoint presentation to inform those
> concerned of the history, reasons for continuance and objectives of
> the Warriors Day Parade.  The Area Cadet Office shared the
> presentation with Central Regional Area Cadets in Borden.  The CO the
> Central Region initially decided that Cadet youths are NOT to be seen
> as Warriors and that D Cadets will not support the Parade unless the
> Council change the name and drop the term "Warrior"  The CO was
> informed that an eighty year old tradition would not be changed just
> to support his personal perception.
> Col Lee then consulted with General Legge and General Lewis and also
> the Army Cadet League in Toronto.  Thanks to Marion McDonald of the
> Army Cadet League, the CO of Central Area was convinced to give the
> Warrior‘s Day a years grace and support for the year 2001.
> The Western Fair Warrior‘s Day had the same concern and they changed
> the name to 2001 Veteran‘s Day  hardly appropriate releasing the
> information to the various organizations who normally take part in the
> Parade.  A concerned Veteran in Ottawa wrote the Ottawa Citizen and
> that‘s when the ‘Citizen‘ championed the cause.  Through several
> interviews the ‘Citizen‘ published a scathing article about the
> D-Cadets requesting a change of the Parade name.  The article made the
> front page in the National Post June 5.  Several Talk Shows had
> veterans calling in to voice dismay.  Col Lee was on camera with
> Global TV regarding this matter as well.
> The Warriors Day Parade Council has unanimously voted that the
> Warrior‘s Day Parade name will remain unchanged until there is no one
> left to parade.  Some as they are entitled may observe all of this
> as a "storm in a teacup".  However my own view, for what it is worth
> is that this is just another item which albeit indirectly is
> contributing to the image of a military force of lesser consequence.
> As I have stated ad nauseum, we need more and more to develop that
> which is positive about the Army and the Forces in general.  If the
> Cadets are not to be viewed in a military light then why are they
> called Army, Air Force or Navy Cadets?  I had the honour to be present
> at the Annual Inspection of the 2605 Cadets at FYA recently and I was
> impressed with the great turnout and the "pomp and circumstance" with
> such traditions as the presentation of Awards for developed skills and
> achievement to the presentation of the Sword and appointment of the
> new RSM .  What is really significant is the pride and self assurance
> of the Cadets themselves.  I know how much they enjoy and are proud of
> their affiliation to a Regiment and the involvement in military
> affairs.  Shame on those who pander to the petty and unsupported views
> of what at least I perceive as a minority.
>
> Thanks for reading this - back to the "lurkers lair"
>
> Eric  Arte et Marte
> -------------------------------------------------------- NOTE: To
> remove yourself from this list, send a message to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca
> from the account you wish to remove, with the line "unsubscribe
> army-list" in the message body.
--------------17AE7A10BAACAF8444FD01CF
Eric,
 Well Said!!
Francois
Eric Cozens wrote:
G‘Day All!
There are more and more items
that prompt me to emerge from my ‘lurker‘ position and the issue of Warrior‘s
Day is one of them.
I am horrified to note that a
person who has achieved the honour and distinction of being a Colonel voices
thoughts to which he is entitled, purporting them to be those of the
populace at large. Only the misinformed and those ignorant of the
actual role, aims and objectives of the Cadet movement could be expected
to offer such an opinion. For what it is worth I offer my thoughts
and include an update on the furor:
LCol Jack Lee Ret‘d, ex Commanding
Officer of 709 Toronto Communication Regiment, is also President of the
CNE‘s Warriors Day Parade Council. It all started back in 2000 when
the Parade executives found that there were fewer Cadets parading.
During the off season the Parade executive decided to take a proactive
approach by consulting with the Cadet League. and D- Cadets DND‘s area
of responsibility to obtain more support for the 2001 Parade. In
that approach Col Lee made a Powerpoint presentation to inform those concerned
of the history, reasons for continuance and objectives of the Warriors
Day Parade. The Area Cadet Office shared the presentation with Central
Regional Area Cadets in Borden. The CO the Central Region initially
decided that Cadet youths are NOT to be seen as Warriors and that D Cadets
will not support the Parade unless the Council change the name and drop
the term "Warrior" The CO was informed that an eighty year old tradition
would not be changed just to support his personal perception.
Col Lee then consulted with General
Legge and General Lewis and also the Army Cadet League in Toronto.
Thanks to Marion McDonald of the Army Cadet League, the CO of Central Area
was convinced to give the Warrior‘s Day a years grace and support for the
year 2001.
The Western Fair Warrior‘s Day
had the same concern and they changed the name to 2001 Veteran‘s Day
hardly appropriate releasing the information to the various organizations
who normally take part in the Parade. A concerned Veteran in Ottawa
wrote the Ottawa Citizen and that‘s when the ‘Citizen‘ championed the cause.
Through several interviews the ‘Citizen‘ published a scathing article about
the D-Cadets requesting a change of the Parade name. The article
made the front page in the National Post June 5. Several Talk Shows
had veterans calling in to voice dismay. Col Lee was on camera with
Global TV regarding this matter as well.
The Warriors Day Parade Council
has unanimously voted that the Warrior‘s Day Parade name will remain unchanged
until there is no one left to parade. Some as they are entitled
may observe all of this as a "storm in a teacup". However my own
view, for what it is worth is that this is just another item which albeit
indirectly is contributing to the image of a military force of lesser
consequence. As I have stated ad nauseum, we need more and
more to develop that which is positive about the Army and the Forces in
general. If the Cadets are not to be viewed in a military light then
why are they called Army, Air Force or Navy Cadets? I had the honour
to be present at the Annual Inspection of the 2605 Cadets at FYA recently
and I was impressed with the great turnout and the "pomp and circumstance"
with such traditions as the presentation of Awards for developed skills
and achievement to the presentation of the Sword and appointment of the
new RSM . What is really significant is the pride and self assurance
of the Cadets themselves. I know how much they enjoy and are
proud of their affiliation to a Regiment and the involvement in military
affairs. Shame on those who pander to the petty and unsupported views
of what at least I perceive as a minority.
Thanks for reading this - back
to the "lurkers lair"
Eric Arte et Marte
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version:2.1
emailinternet:zzzzzzz@telusplanet.net
title:Francois Arseneault - camera/editor
adrquoted-printable:Military, Motorsports and severe environment specialists=3B =0D=0ADPS Velocity Edit suite=3B =0D=0ABeta SP camera=3B =0D=0AUnderwater unitCalgaryAlbertaCanada
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Offline Milnet.ca

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Re: Cadets Won‘t March
« Reply #20 on: September 24, 2002, 08:21:00 »
Posted by "Jason King" <indian_jew@hotmail.com> on Sat, 09 Jun 2001 15:33:40 -0500
Adam,
Thanks for bringing up something about the gear. It‘s no secret around here
that those who are connected get what they want. We recieve our supplies
from Winnipeg, but in terms of quality we get screwed over since the city
squadrons always get first pick. For years we have been tryng to get enough
IMP‘s for our survival exercises, some of our cadets were sent down to Shilo
for a survival exercise with a WPG. squadron and were amazed at all that
they had, food and otherwise although I‘ll concede that the supply
situation has gotten better.
Jason
>From: Adam Wainwright
>Reply-To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
>To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
>Subject: Re: Cadets Won‘t March
>Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2001 00:29:12 -0700
>
>Jason,
>  Many thanks for your supurb response.  I to am an Air Cadet, I talk in
>army
>terms here, to avoid confusion I agree with all of the points that you
>brought
>up.  Your points about the novelty wearing off could not be more true!  I
>do
>strongly agree that cadets should be more militarized instead of less.  Not
>to
>train cadets as soilders but to provide a challange for them.  Throughout
>my
>time I have found that I was always attracted to the challanges.  And many
>people like to be challanged, espically teenagers.  Living on the west
>coast, I
>compleatly echo your thoughts about CHAP and this ‘way ahead process‘.  
>Sure,
>its great for the Ottawa squardons that get all that cool gear now but when
>we
>see it on the coast in 10 years it should be nice.  I do know that this
>happens,
>I have a close friend that was the CWO of 872 for a few years and they had
>it
>all.  Gore-tex jackets to test and all the new uniform ideas.  Oh well,
>they
>were the best times of those years.  Sad that they don‘t make cadets like
>they
>used to.  I would love to chat if you have some time.
>
>best regards to all
>
>-adam
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Offline Milnet.ca

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Re: Cadets Won‘t March
« Reply #21 on: September 24, 2002, 08:21:00 »
Posted by "Jason King" <indian_jew@hotmail.com> on Sat, 09 Jun 2001 16:05:17 -0500
I agree with you that most of the public supports the CCM, however I still
think Col. Hardy and others are wrong to throw up a protest over something
like this. This "problem" was not created by specific complaints from
outside indivuduals, it was created and "solved" by senior people within the
cadet movement.
Hopefully, if some misinformed person wrote their MP about "child soldiers"
marching through the streets others like those who post here would write
their own MP‘s too. If it‘s like anything else with our military it‘ll be
ignored by most. I don‘t know how much damage one or two letters could do.
MP‘s put effort into things if they believe it‘s popular in their riding. We
can‘t go on altering traditions and beliefs in cadets or the military for
fear of a few uninformed people.
Jason
>From: "F. A."
>Reply-To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
>To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
>Subject: Re: Cadets Won‘t March
>Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2001 10:25:21 -0600
>
>Jason and all,
>
>
>             It‘s a funny thing... 20  years ago when I was an army cadet,
>we had
>the same comments in so many words, being made from people in the same
>positions. Much of this can be attributed to the civilianization of NDHQ.
>When
>you have liberal appointed civilian masters with a liberal-socialist elite
>view
>of the rest of us, naturally you‘ll have this form of pandering. I hold Col
>Hardy in high respect. What he said is accurate. It‘s all about perception
>and
>the squeaky wheel: One or two entirely misinformed, pacifists with nothing
>better to do, phone their MP to complain about something they know nothing
>about
>and... tada!
>             However, if you were to take a country-wide poll, based on
>facts, an
>overwhelming majority would support the cadet movement, what it stands for
>and
>what it produces. Sadly the facts are misconstrued by some individuals
>apparently with an  axe to grind. Ignorance is bliss.
>
>rant-mode off
>
>Francois Arseneault
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Re: Cadets WILL march!
« Reply #22 on: September 24, 2002, 08:22:00 »
Posted by Beth MacFarlane <elljay@nbnet.nb.ca> on Sat, 09 Jun 2001 18:14:47 -0300
--------------508CA736895D8FD37D8EF6F6
Right On!!!!!!!!!!
Bob  Beth
"F. A." wrote:
> Eric,
>
>         Well Said!!
>
> Francois
>
>
> Eric Cozens wrote:
>
>> G‘Day All!
>> There are more and more items that prompt me to emerge from my
>> ‘lurker‘ position and the issue of Warrior‘s Day is one of them.
>> I am horrified to note that a person who has achieved the honour and
>> distinction of being a Colonel voices thoughts to which he is
>> entitled, purporting them to be those of the populace at large.
>> Only the misinformed and those ignorant of the actual role, aims and
>> objectives of the Cadet movement could be expected to offer such an
>> opinion.  For what it is worth I offer my thoughts and include an
>> update on the furor:
>>
>> LCol Jack Lee Ret‘d, ex Commanding Officer of 709 Toronto
>> Communication Regiment, is also President of the CNE‘s Warriors Day
>> Parade Council.  It all started back in 2000 when the Parade
>> executives found that there were fewer Cadets parading.  During the
>> off season the Parade executive decided to take a proactive approach
>> by consulting with the Cadet League. and D- Cadets DND‘s area of
>> responsibility to obtain more support for the 2001 Parade.  In that
>> approach Col Lee made a Powerpoint presentation to inform those
>> concerned of the history, reasons for continuance and objectives of
>> the Warriors Day Parade.  The Area Cadet Office shared the
>> presentation with Central Regional Area Cadets in Borden.  The CO
>> the Central Region initially decided that Cadet youths are NOT to be
>> seen as Warriors and that D Cadets will not support the Parade
>> unless the Council change the name and drop the term "Warrior"  The
>> CO was informed that an eighty year old tradition would not be
>> changed just to support his personal perception.
>> Col Lee then consulted with General Legge and General Lewis and also
>> the Army Cadet League in Toronto.  Thanks to Marion McDonald of the
>> Army Cadet League, the CO of Central Area was convinced to give the
>> Warrior‘s Day a years grace and support for the year 2001.
>> The Western Fair Warrior‘s Day had the same concern and they changed
>> the name to 2001 Veteran‘s Day  hardly appropriate releasing the
>> information to the various organizations who normally take part in
>> the Parade.  A concerned Veteran in Ottawa wrote the Ottawa Citizen
>> and that‘s when the ‘Citizen‘ championed the cause.  Through several
>> interviews the ‘Citizen‘ published a scathing article about the
>> D-Cadets requesting a change of the Parade name.  The article made
>> the front page in the National Post June 5.  Several Talk Shows had
>> veterans calling in to voice dismay.  Col Lee was on camera with
>> Global TV regarding this matter as well.
>> The Warriors Day Parade Council has unanimously voted that the
>> Warrior‘s Day Parade name will remain unchanged until there is no
>> one left to parade.  Some as they are entitled may observe all of
>> this as a "storm in a teacup".  However my own view, for what it is
>> worth is that this is just another item which albeit indirectly is
>> contributing to the image of a military force of lesser
>> consequence.  As I have stated ad nauseum, we need more and more to
>> develop that which is positive about the Army and the Forces in
>> general.  If the Cadets are not to be viewed in a military light
>> then why are they called Army, Air Force or Navy Cadets?  I had the
>> honour to be present at the Annual Inspection of the 2605 Cadets at
>> FYA recently and I was impressed with the great turnout and the
>> "pomp and circumstance" with such traditions as the presentation of
>> Awards for developed skills and achievement to the presentation of
>> the Sword and appointment of the new RSM .  What is really
>> significant is the pride and self assurance of the Cadets
>> themselves.  I know how much they enjoy and are proud of their
>> affiliation to a Regiment and the involvement in military affairs.
>> Shame on those who pander to the petty and unsupported views of what
>> at least I perceive as a minority.
>>
>> Thanks for reading this - back to the "lurkers lair"
>>
>> Eric  Arte et Marte
>> -------------------------------------------------------- NOTE: To
>> remove yourself from this list, send a message to
>> majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to remove, with the
>> line "unsubscribe army-list" in the message body.
>
--------------508CA736895D8FD37D8EF6F6
Right On!!!!!!!!!!
Bob amp Beth
"F. A." wrote:
Eric,
 Well Said!!
Francois
Eric Cozens wrote:
G‘Day All!
There are more and more items
that prompt me to emerge from my ‘lurker‘ position and the issue of Warrior‘s
Day is one of them.
I am horrified to note that a
person who has achieved the honour and distinction of being a Colonel voices
thoughts to which he is entitled, purporting them to be those of the
populace at large. Only the misinformed and those ignorant of the
actual role, aims and objectives of the Cadet movement could be expected
to offer such an opinion. For what it is worth I offer my thoughts
and include an update on the furor:
LCol Jack Lee Ret‘d, ex Commanding
Officer of 709 Toronto Communication Regiment, is also President of the
CNE‘s Warriors Day Parade Council. It all started back in 2000 when
the Parade executives found that there were fewer Cadets parading.
During the off season the Parade executive decided to take a proactive
approach by consulting with the Cadet League. and D- Cadets DND‘s area
of responsibility to obtain more support for the 2001 Parade. In
that approach Col Lee made a Powerpoint presentation to inform those concerned
of the history, reasons for continuance and objectives of the Warriors
Day Parade. The Area Cadet Office shared the presentation with Central
Regional Area Cadets in Borden. The CO the Central Region initially
decided that Cadet youths are NOT to be seen as Warriors and that D Cadets
will not support the Parade unless the Council change the name and drop
the term "Warrior" The CO was informed that an eighty year old tradition
would not be changed just to support his personal perception.
Col Lee then consulted with General
Legge and General Lewis and also the Army Cadet League in Toronto.
Thanks to Marion McDonald of the Army Cadet League, the CO of Central Area
was convinced to give the Warrior‘s Day a years grace and support for the
year 2001.
The Western Fair Warrior‘s Day
had the same concern and they changed the name to 2001 Veteran‘s Day
hardly appropriate releasing the information to the various organizations
who normally take part in the Parade. A concerned Veteran in Ottawa
wrote the Ottawa Citizen and that‘s when the ‘Citizen‘ championed the cause.
Through several interviews the ‘Citizen‘ published a scathing article about
the D-Cadets requesting a change of the Parade name. The article
made the front page in the National Post June 5. Several Talk Shows
had veterans calling in to voice dismay. Col Lee was on camera with
Global TV regarding this matter as well.
The Warriors Day Parade Council
has unanimously voted that the Warrior‘s Day Parade name will remain unchanged
until there is no one left to parade. Some as they are entitled
may observe all of this as a "storm in a teacup". However my own
view, for what it is worth is that this is just another item which albeit
indirectly is contributing to the image of a military force of lesser
consequence. As I have stated ad nauseum, we need more and
more to develop that which is positive about the Army and the Forces in
general. If the Cadets are not to be viewed in a military light then
why are they called Army, Air Force or Navy Cadets? I had the honour
to be present at the Annual Inspection of the 2605 Cadets at FYA recently
and I was impressed with the great turnout and the "pomp and circumstance"
with such traditions as the presentation of Awards for developed skills
and achievement to the presentation of the Sword and appointment of the
new RSM . What is really significant is the pride and self assurance
of the Cadets themselves. I know how much they enjoy and are
proud of their affiliation to a Regiment and the involvement in military
affairs. Shame on those who pander to the petty and unsupported views
of what at least I perceive as a minority.
Thanks for reading this - back
to the "lurkers lair"
Eric Arte et Marte
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Re: Cadets WILL march!
« Reply #23 on: September 24, 2002, 08:22:00 »
Posted by Juno847627709@aol.com on Sat, 9 Jun 2001 18:01:12 EDT
Thanks, Eric, for saying what the vast majority of us would like to say, so
well.
    Matt
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Re: Cadets Won‘t March
« Reply #24 on: September 24, 2002, 08:22:00 »
Posted by Adam Wainwright <ajmw@home.com> on Sun, 10 Jun 2001 09:50:58 -0700
Thanks Matt.
Juno847627709@aol.com wrote:
> Here‘s wishing my former RSM mirrored you two a little more.
>
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