Author Topic: Mortars: 51 mm, 60 mm, 81 mm, 120 mm & more  (Read 406394 times)

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Offline MedCorps

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Re: Mortars: 51 mm, 60 mm, 81 mm, 120 mm & more
« Reply #500 on: November 11, 2012, 18:08:17 »
Just to make sure I understand the current plan for 81 mm distribution per the last AAB / Force 2013 Employment Model.

1 RCHA - 6 tubes and then 18 tubes in support of of 1 RCHA:

5 Fd Regt x 2 tubes
15 Fd Regt x 2 tubes
10 Fd Regt x 2 tubes
26 Fd Regt x 4 tubes
116 Ind Fd Bty x 2 tubes
20 Fd Regt x 4 tubes
20 Ind Fd Bty x 2 tubes

2 RCHA - 6 tubes and then 18 tubes in support of of 2 RCHA:

7 Tor Regt x 4 tubes
11 Fd Regt x 2 tubes
30 Fd Regt x 4 tubes
42 Fd Regt x 4 tubes
49 Fd Regt x 2 tubes
56 Fd Regt x 2 tubes

5 RCHA - 6 tubes and then 12 tubes in support of of 5 RCHA:

2 Fd Regt x 4 tubes
6 Fd Regt x 4 tubes
62 Fd Regt x 4 tubes

In support of RCAS - 10 tubes:

1 Fd Regt x 4 tubes
3 Fd Regt x 4 tubes
84 Ind Fd Bty  x 2 tubes

It seems like this will be a Res F centric activity (with a small Reg F number of tubes). Did I miss anything?

MC

Offline GnyHwy

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Re: Mortars: 51 mm, 60 mm, 81 mm, 120 mm & more
« Reply #501 on: November 11, 2012, 21:36:41 »
That's sad to look at.  2 tubes for a Fd Regt?  Gonna be hard to justify the rank structure in those units, considering I could probably deploy 2 tubes with my wife and kids.

Offline Petard

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Re: Mortars: 51 mm, 60 mm, 81 mm, 120 mm & more
« Reply #502 on: November 11, 2012, 22:03:11 »
56 Fd: 2 tubes and 3 locations (Brantford, Simcoe, and St Catharines), how is this supposed to work once the C3's are gone?

The unit has been able to put 60 pers on Ex, and a lot of experienced Tps at that (quite a few with tour experience, from gun line to OP's and STA), it's going to be a tough time keeping any of them around

Sad indeed


Offline MedCorps

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Re: Mortars: 51 mm, 60 mm, 81 mm, 120 mm & more
« Reply #503 on: November 11, 2012, 22:49:11 »
It also shows 56 Fd as having 4 C3 Howitzers (Brantford) on top of the 2 x 81 mm tubes.  There is also the task to provide a CP section to 2 RCHA. 

Despite the C3 allocation and mortar allocation, the in support of 2 RCHA task shows 1 x artillery section and 1 x CP section.  Not sure if the allocated "artillery section" in support of task is mortar or C3 or if they have the requirement to be prepared to generate both and pick one based on 2 RCHA force generation requirement of the day.

I am not sure exactly what is involved with generating a CP section for the artillery, but it looks like 7 Tor, 11 Fd, 49 Fd and 56 Fd are all going to be tasked with providing a CP section to 2 RCHA.  This seems like a lot of CP sections to provide 2 RCHA for a guy not in the RCA.  Is a mortar CP the same as a 105 mm CP? 

It will be interesting to see how these Res F taskings in identified support of Reg F units works out.  Needless to say other branches of the CF are watching to see if the plan proposed executes well so we can copy them (and learn from their errors). 

MC

Offline Petard

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Re: Mortars: 51 mm, 60 mm, 81 mm, 120 mm & more
« Reply #504 on: November 12, 2012, 12:36:23 »
The units are expected to take part as units for collective training, but FG individuals for deployment. Generally speaking for deployments they cast the net wide within the area, and no one unit seems to be specifically tasked to say "fill X spots in a Troop CP and Y spots on gun detachments".
P Res that are FG for deployment would get trained up on M777, or for which ever role and system they might be employed on (CP or STA being other examples)

2 RCHA, like the other 2 Reg F Regt's, has only 2 gun Bty's now and one of these in habitually undermanned. So the expectation is the fully manned Bty would deploy on roto 0, allowing some time to get P Reservists trained up to fill in some of the gaps in the understrength gun Bty, or do some kind of pers shuffling and cross training within the Regt to prepare for any subsequent roto. In recent experience this has resulted in one helluva "dogs breakfast" for career development/management.

There are also problems in trying to keep P Res pers relatively current so this can work. The current CO of 2 RCHA has been very proactive in trying to get P Res units engaged in collective training with his Regt to deal with this. The problem is distance and timing, with units further away finding it very diffcult to be involved, even on a rotational basis, since they would spend so much time in transit. So in practice 30 Fd (in Ottawa) and 42nd (Pembroke/Renfrew area) are more able to take part in that type of training with 2 RCHA simply due to proximity They'll be taking part in a joint CPX this weekend (16-18 Nov) for example.

It is a bit more difficult to coordinate joint live fire training with any P Res unit though, and will only become more diffcult in the near future. The problem is going to come from increased capability when Reg F units begin to do fire support through a comm's network vice voice only. If P Res units are to take part in live fire with calls for fire being processed "online" if you will, there will be a need to have some kind of additional comm's system at 0 and 95 to coordinate the fire of P Res units not "online" with them. It can really bog things down and skew the training. To put it another way: sort of like being able to email everybody a message that applies to them all, but then having to call the one person without a computer on the phone and tell them what you sent in the email

There was a project to get P Res units with a rudimentary version of the system, but it was llimited to only work within the gun line area and not connect to higher level headquarters (like 0 and 95). In any case it would help miminize the training delta for those pers being FG for deployment. These type of systems can be hung on just about any howitzer though, and are modular enough to even put on an 81.

As the C3 maintainability problems get worse, I imagine 56 Fd will most likely lose their C3's to other units (those at saluting bases), and be left with just 81s to train with. This change to mortars only will most likely happen at different rates for each of the P Res units.  This will no doubt make the patchwork of units that can FG to tasks even more difficult to manage

Offline Chris Pook

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Re: Mortars: 51 mm, 60 mm, 81 mm, 120 mm & more
« Reply #505 on: March 30, 2013, 12:21:19 »
There were so many places I could have posted this ......

This demonstrates everything that is wrong with the American way of war and the foolishness of following their procurement model.

Lockheed Martin has a new Wunderwaffen: The MHTK - a mini Sidewinder with a new warhead designed to work in a C-RAM system.
The target price of each missile is $16,000.

Two articles:

Lockheed Martin on the MHTK

Gizmag on the same system

The Gizmag article makes this claim:

"More soldiers are killed on the battlefield by mortars than by any other weapon of war...."

Of course that would explain why we you have divested yourselves of all 60s and reduced the 81 scale.... but I digress.

Let's  assume that you are limited to the two  81mm tubes that appears to be the likely support available to Light Company.  My old 309(3) says that the 81 has a max rate of fire of 20 RPM.  2 tubes = 40 RPM.

2 tubes of mortars will then force the Yanks to expend funds at the rate of 40x $16,000 per minute or $640,000.  The six tubes of a reduced platoon in a 2 minute stonking sending 240 rounds down range would eat up $3,840,000.

And none of this takes into account the gazillions of dollars invested in launchers, maintenance kits, radars, and development......

What is the cost of a single 81mm HE round made in Pakistan?  $1000?  $200?
"Wyrd bið ful aræd"

"If change isn’t allowed to be a process, it becomes an event." - Penny Mordaunt 10/10/2019

Offline GnyHwy

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Re: Mortars: 51 mm, 60 mm, 81 mm, 120 mm & more
« Reply #506 on: March 30, 2013, 16:37:31 »
That is quite the money pit, and I will venture to say that it doesn't even work yet.  Sounds like a really good boondoggle for a good cause.

Quote
Lockheed Martin Missiles and Fire Control is a 2012 recipient of the U.S. Department of Commerce's Malcolm Baldrige National Quality Award for performance excellence. The Malcolm Baldrige Award represents the highest honor that can be awarded to American companies for their achievements in leadership, strategic planning, customer relations, measurement, analysis, workforce excellence, operations and results.

It says they won the award for "performance excellence", but then that is not in their list of criteria.  They must have won it for customer relations for their willingness to use the customers money to advance their field.   :sarcasm:

Now without sarcasm. I suppose it could have been for measurement, maybe leadership, as the RADAR involved is probably quite advanced.





Offline KevinB

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Re: Mortars: 51 mm, 60 mm, 81 mm, 120 mm & more
« Reply #507 on: March 30, 2013, 16:57:28 »
Quote
The Lockheed Martin MHTK interceptor is on track to meet the AMRDEC Average Unit Production Cost goal of $16,000 per interceptor in 2006 dollars at specified quantities, making it much more affordable than systems it will replace. At less than 1 meter long, less than 50 millimeters in diameter and less than 3 kilograms mass at launch, the MHTK is extremely compact and very agile in flight. Paired with a fire control sensor capable of providing illumination, the MHTK provides robust defeat of RAM targets through body-to-body impact at tactically significant ranges, greatly increasing the protected volume in which our soldiers operate and offering commanders more flexibility than legacy and interim systems.

I don't see the problem with a lighter, cheaper, more agile system?
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Offline winnipegoo7

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Re: Mortars: 51 mm, 60 mm, 81 mm, 120 mm & more
« Reply #508 on: March 30, 2013, 17:50:43 »
AESA (Active electronically scanned array) radars have been around for a while.

$16000 sound like a lot, but seems cheap compared to the cost of a high value target like, say a C-17 Globemaster ($202.3 million according to the USAF.) It might even be cost effective to shoot down a single mortar round to save a single soldier if you think about how much it would cost to replace that individual (not to mention that it may be politically expensive.)

It's also cheaper than the Israeli 'Iron Dome' system, which uses a $40,000 missile according to the CBC. I don't know what the Phalanx 20mm costs, maybe it's cheaper than both systems.

I would hope that a mortar firing for 2 minutes near this system would be long enough for a counter-battery fire to take care of the problem. (I don't know much about counter-battery though)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counter_Rocket,_Artillery,_and_Mortar
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Dome
http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/story/2012/11/20/f-iron-dome-faq.html
http://www.af.mil/information/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=86

Offline KevinB

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Re: Mortars: 51 mm, 60 mm, 81 mm, 120 mm & more
« Reply #509 on: March 30, 2013, 20:57:19 »
Somehow I think the MHTK has been confused in role.

I don't understand this as a Mortar replacement -- it is a precision strike instrument.  Mortars are still retained in the US Army and USMC, unlike Canada.

I don't buy the Gizmag argument at all -- sounds like the folks who did the press for the XM-25 fiasco.
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Offline Chris Pook

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Re: Mortars: 51 mm, 60 mm, 81 mm, 120 mm & more
« Reply #510 on: March 30, 2013, 22:13:27 »
Kevin, as I understand it, the MHTK is designed to knock mortar bombs out of the sky.  It isn't to replace bombs.  It is to prevent them landing.

My point is that it wouldn't take much to overwhelm this system.  I see the same problem with all of the active defence systems, especially ones intended for use on vehicles.  The guy on the ground has the advantage of having more ammunition, and cheaper ammunition, available to him.

Now, if you can detect the firing point and launch a timely counter-battery, counter-sniper strike as suggested by winipegoo7, then that is another matter entirely.
"Wyrd bið ful aræd"

"If change isn’t allowed to be a process, it becomes an event." - Penny Mordaunt 10/10/2019

Offline GnyHwy

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Re: Mortars: 51 mm, 60 mm, 81 mm, 120 mm & more
« Reply #511 on: March 30, 2013, 22:45:16 »
The Iron Dome reduces the potential intercepts by determining if the ballistic path is dangerous and prioritizes that way.  I assume this system would do the same.

This does look great with the "protect the troops" catch phrases and all, but protecting the troops is not cost effective and is not where it will be used.  Winn has it right, it will protect HVTs.  Protecting the troops can be done with systems (sandbags) we already have.  I am skeptical of the stat they use that the most casualties are from mortars.  Since when and where?  Perhaps all of modern warfare, I could believe that Arty did that (woot woot), but not in the last 20 years; I can't see it.  We've have lost more in one explosion than all the mortar/rocket casualties I can think of.  I am not knowledgeable on Iraq, so perhaps someone else maybe able to validate their claims.

Counter battery is another beast all together.  The technology is already there and has been for many years.  The willingness to return fire into a potentially populated area is not an easy decision to make.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2013, 22:49:11 by GnyHwy »

Offline Thucydides

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Re: Mortars: 51 mm, 60 mm, 81 mm, 120 mm & more
« Reply #512 on: March 30, 2013, 22:49:55 »
I would suspect that this is supposed to be part of an integrated system.

Step 1; bad guy opens fire

Step 2; active defense system shoots down incoming rounds

Step 3; active defense radar and/or counter battery radar backtracks firing point and relays information to the FSCC

Step 4 FSCC passes information to nearest shooter and launches counter battery engagement

Step 5; Infantry patrol is dispatched to do BDA on smoking crater....

The problem of being overwhelmed is an issue until the system is integrated and the troops are well practiced. If steps 2,3 and 4 can be spooled up fast enough, the bad guys will either be shut down by our fire or learn to cut their engagements short in a "shoot and scoot" scenario. The active defense buys time while the counter battery solution is calculated and executed.
Dagny, this is not a battle over material goods. It's a moral crisis, the greatest the world has ever faced and the last. Our age is the climax of centuries of evil. We must put an end to it, once and for all, or perish - we, the men of the mind. It was our own guilt. We produced the wealth of the world - but we let our enemies write its moral code.

Offline NavyShooter

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Re: Mortars: 51 mm, 60 mm, 81 mm, 120 mm & more
« Reply #513 on: March 31, 2013, 07:48:47 »
I think the point is made though....

Using this as a defensive umbrella for HVT's is the way ahead, as troop protection already exists.  Alas, it seems designed for an insurgency type campaign, the "hit and run" sort where a handful of rounds are fired.  Although, if it's able to hit the first couple of incoming rounds, that would likely give those on the ground the time to seek better cover, or give them a bit more time to get there.

Against a truly capable first or second world enemy, this would be...well...almost pointless.  How many rounds would it take to saturate it?   How do you deal with multiple rounds timed to arrive at the same time?  Is it capable of handling that?

In terms of future fighting capability, is it an acceptance that future threats will be, most often, counter-insurgency, and fought against less capable/trained enemies?

Just my rumblings....if I'm out of my lane and blowing soot out my stacks, let me know.  :-)

NS
« Last Edit: March 31, 2013, 07:52:16 by NavyShooter »
Insert disclaimer statement here....

:panzer:

Offline KevinB

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Re: Mortars: 51 mm, 60 mm, 81 mm, 120 mm & more
« Reply #514 on: March 31, 2013, 15:05:47 »
Kevin, as I understand it, the MHTK is designed to knock mortar bombs out of the sky.  It isn't to replace bombs.  It is to prevent them landing.

My point is that it wouldn't take much to overwhelm this system.  I see the same problem with all of the active defence systems, especially ones intended for use on vehicles.  The guy on the ground has the advantage of having more ammunition, and cheaper ammunition, available to him.

Now, if you can detect the firing point and launch a timely counter-battery, counter-sniper strike as suggested by winipegoo7, then that is another matter entirely.

Okay now I am tracking your point.

We had 96 Mortar bombslaunched Christmas Day 2006 in Al Hilla Iraq by insurgents -- mix of 60mm and 81/82mm
   Generally when I was in Bagdad the typical days was maybe 20 incoming - Insurgent forces simply don't have a lot of mortars - and due to the 'Eye in the Sky' our response times are pretty good to wipe the launching troops.

However during Operation McCall when we where moving Yellowcake and other items we had one of the material evac C-17's hit by mortar fire on the tarmac at BIAP -- several CONEX of the WMD material where on board that C-17.   Another A/C had to be brought to bring the material out.   This sort of HVT the anti-missile would be ideal for, as a C-17 is around 1/4 Billion $, not to mention the MAZMAT issues if that cargo was dispersed
   
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Offline Chris Pook

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Re: Mortars: 51 mm, 60 mm, 81 mm, 120 mm & more
« Reply #515 on: March 31, 2013, 15:12:50 »
Okay now I am tracking your point.

We had 96 Mortar bombslaunched Christmas Day 2006 in Al Hilla Iraq by insurgents -- mix of 60mm and 81/82mm
   Generally when I was in Bagdad the typical days was maybe 20 incoming - Insurgent forces simply don't have a lot of mortars - and due to the 'Eye in the Sky' our response times are pretty good to wipe the launching troops.

However during Operation McCall when we where moving Yellowcake and other items we had one of the material evac C-17's hit by mortar fire on the tarmac at BIAP -- several CONEX of the WMD material where on board that C-17.   Another A/C had to be brought to bring the material out.   This sort of HVT the anti-missile would be ideal for, as a C-17 is around 1/4 Billion $, not to mention the MAZMAT issues if that cargo was dispersed
 

OK,  I track.

As a selectively applied technology I can see merits.  But I still can't wrap my head around this, or other, active defence measures in an environment when the opposing, and defending, force can bring more bullets to the fight than you can with your attacking force operating at the extreme end of your lines of communication.  I still think he will always outshoot you.
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Offline Thucydides

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Re: Mortars: 51 mm, 60 mm, 81 mm, 120 mm & more
« Reply #516 on: March 31, 2013, 16:18:51 »
As Kevin pointed out, many of the insurgent forces don't have access to lots of *stuff* either, and if you think about it they are often at the end of a long supply line as well (consider smuggling a rocket from Iran to a Hamas cell in Gaza).

Putting a shield over a HVT is a good use of this sort of technology and buys the time that the defenders need. For the most part, I see the insurgents being on the receiving end of a lot more fire than they ever manage to send our way (once again, just ask the rocket teams in Gaza how that worked out for them...). Against a peer opponent, these technologies would probably cancel out.
Dagny, this is not a battle over material goods. It's a moral crisis, the greatest the world has ever faced and the last. Our age is the climax of centuries of evil. We must put an end to it, once and for all, or perish - we, the men of the mind. It was our own guilt. We produced the wealth of the world - but we let our enemies write its moral code.

Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: Mortars: 51 mm, 60 mm, 81 mm, 120 mm & more
« Reply #517 on: October 09, 2013, 17:29:31 »
The precision guided mortar revelation
(Richard da Silva for Defence IQ)


The resurgence of US mortar systems appears to be hitting their zenith since the introduction of PGMs and so Defence IQ explores the first smart mortar on the battlefield.

In early November 2012, ATK completed the production and delivery of more than 4,000 precision mortar cartridges (XM395, 120mm mortars) to the US Army. This final delivery accomplished ATK’s contract in support of the Army’s Accelerated Precision Mortar Initiative (APMI) and establishes the baseline for future precision mortar programmes. “Our precision guidance fuze technology has proven that existing mortar and artillery munition inventories can quickly and reliably be transformed into precision weapons,” said Dan Olson, Vice President and General Manager for ATK’s Armament Systems Division. “While we’ve completed the work for APMI, we are currently producing Precision Guidance Kits (PGK) for 155mm artillery under a similar Army urgent material request and have been chosen by the Marine Corps to prove a design for a Precision Extended Range Mortar.”


Bring on the APMI

The Army sponsored APMI to meet operational needs for a precision, 120mm mortar capability for reliable response to enemy engagements and especially in mountainous terrain which is inaccessible to artillery. A precision guided mortar provides field commanders with indirect fire capability successfully to engage targets while mitigating collateral damage. Additionally, greater accuracy reduces the number of rounds required to successfully defeat targets while reducing in-theatre logistical requirements and also providing collateral effect mitigation.
 
APMI – XM395

ATK leveraged mature guidance technologies and weapon subsystems to rapidly transform the more than 4,000 standard M934 mortar bodies into precision mortar cartridges (mortar bombs in UK parlance) through the addition of a GPS guidance and navigation fuze that replaces conventional fusing in the mortar cartridge fuze well. The standard cartridge tailfin is also replaced with an ATK-designed tailfin which helps to create the conditions for precision flight. Operators enter data into the system from a fire control computer into the round using a setting device. Production was completed at ATK’s Minnesota-based Armament Systems Division production facilities.

 
XM395 (Prototype)

While this phase in the development of a precision mortar system is complete, the Army is working towards the creation of a programme of record and is currently finalising the programme objective memorandum which is an initial step in securing the necessary resources for the requirement that is known as the High Explosive Guided Mortar or HEGM.

“Our XM395 also successfully completed a Forward Operational Assessment with the Army in Afghanistan. The initial quantities provided battlefield commander with 10 metre accuracy,” said Olson. “Given the weapon’s battlefield success and our organisation’s ability to move the programme from development to initial fielding within a year, we are looking forwards to the Army’s decision to allow fielding across the force.”

APMI’s success was recently recognised by the US Army Research Development and Engineering Command (ARDEC), being named one of the Army’s greatest inventions. Recipients of the award are recognized for their inventiveness and contribution to Army capabilities. Award winners are chosen by a panel of non-commissioned officers with recent combat experience along with field-grade officers from the US Army Training and Doctrine Command (TRADOC).

ATK’s expertise in creating GPS guidance fuzes for indirect fire systems began with PGK (XM1156) which is a guidance fuze for artillery. The company is currently producing the kits to meet the Army’s urgent material request for precision guidance requirements for 155mm artillery projectiles that will be fielded for training and operational use. In parallel, ATK is nearing completion of a PGK development contract to produce the guidance fuzes under an ‘urgent material release’ for operational assessments in Afghanistan that includes training and tactical use. Additionally, ATK was recently awarded a Low Rate Initial Production contract with follow on options for full rate production which will begin Army-wide fielding in early 2014.

While proceeding on PGK, the company also is working towards proving that precision guidance is possible for the Marine Corps’ 120mm rifled mortar. In October 2012, ATK was awarded a $14.3 million contract to develop a solution to meet the Marine Corps’ requirement for a Precision Extended Range Mortar (PERM). The 24-month PERM development programme will demonstrate a precision mortar cartridge capable of reliably providing accuracy within 20 metres circular error probable (CEP) and can then be quickly transitioned to production and ultimately fielding.

Marching forwards

Lieutenant Colonel William McDonough, the US Army’s programme Officer for Mortars and PEO for Ammunition primarily credits the recent progress in mortar accuracy to the APMI and told Defence IQ that forces using the system had found it to be something of “a revelation”.
“It’s been in use in Afghanistan for a little more than two years and has seen good results, allowing for more accuracy and for commanders to have a better confidence level when engaging targets in urban areas. Accuracy is 10 metres CEP, so that is as accurate as I think we’re ever going to get at 120mm. It will provide all the effects you need.”

McDonough also highlighted the strong reliability and volume of sensors now available that can detect points of origin and extend situational awareness, which, when paired with the APMI, not only provides defensive coverage to forward operating bases but has also been useful in eliminating IED emplacers within a 6,250 metre circle around the position.

Other notable progress when it comes to the pace of mortar development has been seen on lightening of the soldiers’ load and the offer of more ammunition on the 60mm M224, and 81mm M252 sets, which has been well received in theatre. “We’ve taken about 9 pounds out of the 60mm mortar using the Inconel cannon (barrel in UK-speak), which is a more exotic metal [nickel-based] than standard steel, but maintains the same performance parameters and which is a good story in the hills and mountains of Afghanistan,” he said. “I would say we never beat the requirement demands from the operational community because we’re always playing catch up, but I think we are shortening the lead times and the time it takes to get products into the field.”

On this basis, target location is the one area in which focused training has been a key requirement, particularly for forward observers, because no matter how good the precision equipment becomes, the grid information must still be accurate first and foremost.

When it comes to accuracy, McDonough believes that the Army has peaked at the level it needs to and sees it to be an unnecessary investment to attempt to chase just a few more metres of accuracy, however, from a user’s experience, greater reach is always something that will be in demand. “The challenge is in knowing just how much range is needed, how much is too much, and how much is not enough.”


"The most important qualification of a soldier is fortitude under fatigue and privation. Courage is only second; hardship, poverty and want are the best school for a soldier." Napoleon

Offline GnyHwy

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Re: Mortars: 51 mm, 60 mm, 81 mm, 120 mm & more
« Reply #518 on: October 09, 2013, 18:49:11 »
The precision guided mortar revelation
(Richard da Silva for Defence IQ)

The resurgence of US mortar systems appears to be hitting their zenith since the introduction of PGMs and so Defence IQ explores the first smart mortar on the battlefield.

I wouldn't have used the word zenith.  I can think of plenty of improvements still.  Are these guys hiring?


Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: Mortars: 51 mm, 60 mm, 81 mm, 120 mm & more
« Reply #519 on: November 05, 2013, 01:16:57 »
I like the use of the improvised 60mm baseplate between 53.00 and 54.00 ish:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d96hP7HiQFc
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Re: Mortars: 51 mm, 60 mm, 81 mm, 120 mm & more
« Reply #520 on: November 06, 2013, 20:22:04 »
For you 60mm fans, here's what the Brits are up to:
Quote
The majority of the M6-640 Commando handheld and M6-895 bipod-type 60 mm mortars acquired in quantity from Hirtenberger by the British Army to meet urgent operational requirements (UORs) in Afghanistan since 2008 are to be shelved for economy reasons.

According to Major Haydn Jellard, a staff officer from the Dismounted Close Combat section of the UK Ministry of Defence (MoD) Capability Directorate Combat who spoke at the Defence IQ Future Mortar Systems conference in London in October, once the drawdown from Afghanistan is complete, the Anglo-Canadian 81 mm L16A2 mortar will again be the only type on issue to standard infantry battalions in Reaction Force and Adaptive Force brigades. Their infantry sections will also have the use of 40 mm grenade launchers for organic fire support at the shortest ranges.

Though heavier than its 60 mm counterpart, the long-serving L16A2 bipod mortar can be man-ported if necessary, has a greater range (5,650 m), and its bombs have more than twice the lethal radius. Concentrating on a single calibre will also yield economies of scale in the acquisition of smoke, illuminating, and high-explosive mortar ammunition.

It is expected a vestigial 60 mm mortar capability will nonetheless be "kept alive" within light forces, notably by UK Royal Marines (part of the navy) and parachute battalions, which will continue to employ a limited number of the 1,384 m-range Commando mortars. The remainder (including all the 3,610 m-range M6-895 bipod versions) will be "going into store", Maj Jellard stated ....
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Offline Colin P

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Re: Mortars: 51 mm, 60 mm, 81 mm, 120 mm & more
« Reply #521 on: November 08, 2013, 14:43:16 »
Interesting add-on by the USMC to their 60mm to improve accuracy, looks like a typical Holo-sight. Via Tanknet

http://www.military.com/daily-news/2013/11/07/marines-in-afghanistan-getting-mortar-improvements.html?ESRC=eb.nl

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Re: Mortars: 51 mm, 60 mm, 81 mm, 120 mm & more
« Reply #522 on: November 08, 2013, 17:10:50 »
Insight MRDS -- I'm curious if it has a reticle like the EOTECH 40mm GL sight -- with range stadia etc.
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Re: Mortars: 51 mm, 60 mm, 81 mm, 120 mm & more
« Reply #523 on: December 07, 2014, 14:53:45 »
60mm gossip - UK version

Quote
For all of 2013, the 60mm Light Mortar continued to be part of the training for the infantry battalions, but the weapon is expected to have to go after operations in Afghanistan conclude. The mortar was procured as UOR to reintroduce a capability that had been available for ages in the Platoons, thanks to the 51mm mortar. It was phased out believing that the introduction of under slung grenade launchers would provide a proper replacement, but the experience on the ground in Iraq and Afghanistan proved it wasn't quite the case.
Last year, the Army said that the Platoon Mortar would eventually leave the army again, with the weapons mothballed. Only the PARA and Commando units would retain a number of them in use, to preserve their capability and to keep alive expertise of their employment.
This is another example of cut corner. It is to be hoped that the decision will be reversed, like it has happened in other cases.
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Re: Mortars: 51 mm, 60 mm, 81 mm, 120 mm & more
« Reply #524 on: December 07, 2014, 16:07:45 »
Interesting add-on by the USMC to their 60mm to improve accuracy, looks like a typical Holo-sight. Via Tanknet

http://www.military.com/daily-news/2013/11/07/marines-in-afghanistan-getting-mortar-improvements.html?ESRC=eb.nl
Very slick - some closer pix from Flickr attached.
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