Author Topic: Afghan Medals Process (merged)  (Read 162655 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Michael O'Leary

  • The moral high ground cannot be dominated by fire alone, it must be occupied to be claimed as held.
  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *****
  • 346,635
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 9,689
    • The Regimental Rogue
Re: Seeking Answers WRT Medals.......... Serious answers only please
« Reply #50 on: August 30, 2005, 21:39:16 »
If you move around within the same OP, say OP Athena, then no.  You would get the appropriate medal (Probably the highest).

If you move around between two different OPs then you would probably get both if one OP was SWASM and the other GCS.  Or perhaps you would get different bars for the ribbon if the two OPs were both the same, SWASM or GCS.

Or nothing at all, if you don't spend long enough in theatre under any one particular mandate to qualify.

I knew one Transport Offcier who worked with movement sections, he'd deploy on a mission at the outset, spend 2-3 weeks setting up the movement section, and then return to Canada. He was all over the world, and accumulated no specific tour medals.

Offline Nerf herder

  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *
  • 24,986
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 8,032
  • The usual suspect.
Re: Seeking Answers WRT Medals.......... Serious answers only please
« Reply #51 on: August 31, 2005, 00:14:25 »
Actually, I was wondering about that: the troops in TF Kabul are moving from ISAF to OEF, and the troops of TF 1-06 will be going over as OEF, and then transitioning to ISAF (I think). Has there been anything official on the gongs to be awarded (SWASM and/or GCS)? (Official being "in writing")

Acorn

For that Roto....IIRC Op Archer will already be transformed to ISAF from OEF by the time you hit the ground. Therefore you'll recieve the GCS and not the SWASM.

The SWASM is for Op Enduring Freedom or any other non ISAF Mission. The troops in Qtown will get both as well, again 2 different Ops...2 different medals.

For the troops in CM they'll recieve the GSM and not the GCS or SWASM.

Ohhh my head hurts......    ;D

Regards
Those who beat their swords into plowshares usually end up plowing for those who kept their swords.--Ben Franklin

"Going to war without France is like going deer hunting without your accordion."
    -Norman Schwartzkopf

Offline Fdtrucker

  • Member
  • ****
  • 10,460
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 123
Re: Seeking Answers WRT Medals.......... Serious answers only please
« Reply #52 on: August 31, 2005, 00:21:59 »
Member of 1 Svc Bn that   close out Unprofor in 95/95 worked at getting our vehs and equipment into Bosnia for Roto 0 IFOR did rx'ed both their UN and Nato medals because of of the change over from UN to Nato. Mbrs of Ett Roto 2 and those working for CFC-A received their SWASM while the rest of us on Roto 2 rx'ed the GCS due to their different Missions. The CO of Roto 2 TSE was awarded the GCS vice the GCM because he spent 30 days or more in Afghanistan at the dislike of his troops in Mirage because of the time spent there. Some of the D&S Platoon from TSE accumulated more then the 30 days required so should have been issued with this as well. A Cpl coming back from Op Archer TAT will be receiving the SWASM for his 40 odd days spent in Kandahar. For the troops currently in Camp Julien (Roto 4) i wouldn't guess if they are going to rx'ed two medal.

Offline Good2Golf

  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Legend
  • *
  • 232,130
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 11,479
  • Dammit! I lost my sand-wedge on that last jump!
Re: Seeking Answers WRT Medals.......... Serious answers only please
« Reply #53 on: August 31, 2005, 00:27:20 »
There are a couple of CANFORGENs out on the SWASM and ARCHER/ARGUS...can't recall the number but within the last month or so...


Offline Teddy Ruxpin

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 3,380
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 2,064
  • Grumpy Bear
Re: Seeking Answers WRT Medals.......... Serious answers only please
« Reply #54 on: August 31, 2005, 00:38:20 »
Member of 1 Svc Bn that   close out Unprofor in 95/95 worked at getting our vehs and equipment into Bosnia for Roto 0 IFOR did rx'ed both their UN and Nato medals because of of the change over from UN to Nato. Mbrs of Ett Roto 2 and those working for CFC-A received their SWASM while the rest of us on Roto 2 rx'ed the GCS due to their different Missions. The CO of Roto 2 TSE was awarded the GCS vice the GCM because he spent 30 days or more in Afghanistan at the dislike of his troops in Mirage because of the time spent there. Some of the D&S Platoon from TSE accumulated more then the 30 days required so should have been issued with this as well. A Cpl coming back from Op Archer TAT will be receiving the SWASM for his 40 odd days spent in Kandahar. For the troops currently in Camp Julien (Roto 4) i wouldn't guess if they are going to rx'ed two medal.

Exactly right.  Moreover, there's one other example of a "two for one" mission.  Roto 15 transitioned from NATO to EUFOR (Op BRONZE to Op BOREAS) last year.  Pers serving with SFOR received the NATO Non-Article 5 Medal because they filled the minimum time required, then received the new EUFOR medal because they fulfilled the time requirements for that medal as well.  I didn't agree with the concept, particularly as many jobs (particularly in the admin unit) didn't change at all, but there it is.
A man may fight for many things. His country, his friends, his principles, the glistening tear on the cheek of a golden child. But personally, I'd mud-wrestle my own mother for a ton of cash, an amusing clock and a sack of French porn.

Dulce bellum inexpertis.

Offline reccecrewman

  • Another fine day to be in the Corps..............
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • 3,191
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 575
Re: Seeking Answers WRT Medals.......... Serious answers only please
« Reply #55 on: August 31, 2005, 01:13:13 »
Oh, undoubtedly they must deserve it.      A really rough tour of duty no doubt.

Pathetic! 

It is really all about the medals... isn't it?

This above is from Devil39...................  I have to say that for each soldier who does a tour overseas, they all have their own take on a tour of duty.  I see absolutely nothing wrong with asking a question WRT a decoration that was given as to why it can't be worn.  I recieved many answers that gave me a much clearer understanding on the topic, but this comment kinda took me by surprise.  Any medal that any soldier recieves, whether it's classified as a "gimme" medal or not, still is something that you should be proud of.  It really is all about the medals Devil 39????  Are you honestly going to say that it's about something else????  Like what I wonder???  A genuine heartfelt interest in the cause to help the people of a wartorn nation pick up the pieces and rebuild? Please!  How about the money we pick up to be overseas????  BINGO!  If we recieved the exact same pay overseas that we earn in garrison, then guess what?  We'd have a whole slew of troops dagging RED!!!!!! Because very few guys (or girls) are going to go spend 6 months away from their wife (or husband) and children for the same pay we take home in Canada.  Its all about the money, and if you take a swipe at somebody asking about a medal, how about coming down on all the troops whose only reason for going is extra cash?  Unless cash is an honourable justification to you...........................  I was merely asking a question, not looking for a talking down to.
Some people wonder all their lives if they've made a difference....... Soldiers don't have that problem.

Better to die fighting, standing on your feet than to live life serving on your knees.

Offline Nerf herder

  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *
  • 24,986
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 8,032
  • The usual suspect.
Re: Seeking Answers WRT Medals.......... Serious answers only please
« Reply #56 on: August 31, 2005, 02:18:50 »
It is really all about the medals... isn't it?

Obviously it is to you and the troops who are writing to their MPs   ::)

Quote
I see absolutely nothing wrong with asking a question WRT a decoration that was given as to why it can't be worn.   I recieved many answers that gave me a much clearer understanding on the topic, but this comment kinda took me by surprise.   Any medal that any soldier recieves, whether it's classified as a "gimme" medal or not, still is something that you should be proud of.

Yes....by all means be proud of your gong. You've earned it.

Quote
If we recieved the exact same pay overseas that we earn in garrison, then guess what?   We'd have a whole slew of troops dagging RED!!!!!! Because very few guys (or girls) are going to go spend 6 months away from their wife (or husband) and children for the same pay we take home in Canada.

Seems to me I remember you mouthing off about all the cash you were going to make and what you were going to spend it on PRIOR to B Sqn's departure.

Pot meet kettle    ::)

Quote
Its all about the money, and if you take a swipe at somebody asking about a medal, how about coming down on all the troops whose only reason for going is extra cash?   Unless cash is an honourable justification to you...........................   I was merely asking a question, not looking for a talking down to.

Question answered in spades. As for the troops going just for the cash...they have their reasons, so be it. Nothing anyone can do about it.

Regards

BTW...welcome to Army.ca   ;D
Those who beat their swords into plowshares usually end up plowing for those who kept their swords.--Ben Franklin

"Going to war without France is like going deer hunting without your accordion."
    -Norman Schwartzkopf

Offline Infanteer

  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Myth
  • *
  • 185,545
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 15,461
  • Honey Badger FTW!
Re: Seeking Answers WRT Medals.......... Serious answers only please
« Reply #57 on: August 31, 2005, 04:22:22 »
How about just sticking a handful of Afghani poo-dirt in your DEU pocket - that should get the point across, shouldn't it?
"Overall it appears that much of the apparent complexity of modern war stems in practice from the self-imposed complexity of modern HQs" LCol J.P. Storr

Offline reccecrewman

  • Another fine day to be in the Corps..............
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • 3,191
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 575
Re: Seeking Answers WRT Medals.......... Serious answers only please
« Reply #58 on: August 31, 2005, 11:34:20 »
Touche! Point taken.  Anyhow, thanks to all who responded, I got the vaild answers I was looking for.
Some people wonder all their lives if they've made a difference....... Soldiers don't have that problem.

Better to die fighting, standing on your feet than to live life serving on your knees.

Offline Nerf herder

  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *
  • 24,986
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 8,032
  • The usual suspect.
Re: Seeking Answers WRT Medals.......... Serious answers only please
« Reply #59 on: August 31, 2005, 13:22:04 »
Glad to help you out reccecrewman.    ;)

We Dragoons have to stick together   ;D

Regards
Those who beat their swords into plowshares usually end up plowing for those who kept their swords.--Ben Franklin

"Going to war without France is like going deer hunting without your accordion."
    -Norman Schwartzkopf

Offline mover1

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • 3,905
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 758
  • I wasn't looking at anybodys birthmark man........
Re: Seeking Answers WRT Medals.......... Serious answers only please
« Reply #60 on: August 31, 2005, 14:20:23 »
Story of a Medal

 1999 I was with the AF during Op Allied Force.
 We received the NATO FRY Medal
 six months later it was taken away and we received the NATO medal with Kosovo Bar and our CPSM
 a couple of years after theat the Kosovo Gang was repealed and I got the FRY medal again and the GSM pilots got the GCS.

Three Medals (well four really) for one tour which had changed missions three times.

It was a fun tour. And a very busy 78 Days. Best time of my life.

Offline Gunner

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 6,985
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 2,835
  • Artillery Forum Moderator
Re: Seeking Answers WRT Medals.......... Serious answers only please
« Reply #61 on: August 31, 2005, 20:34:19 »
Quote
And a very busy 78 Days.

I am not singling out mover1 but if there is one thing I would like to see, it is the requirement to spent 90 days in theatre before getting a medal.  There are way too many tour tourist out there collecting great racks without putting in the requisite amount of time.  30 days is not enough time to even unpack your barrack box!

My 2 cents.
Had a wonderful ~26 years in the military and still miss it.

Offline KevinB

  • Has Been
  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *****
  • 35,620
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 8,337
  • As a Matter of Fact the Sky is Blue in my world...
    • FN America
Re: Seeking Answers WRT Medals.......... Serious answers only please
« Reply #62 on: August 31, 2005, 20:49:54 »
IIRC back in the day  ;)  We had to have 90 days - a lot of guys did not get the UNFICYP or early UNPROFOR's do to that -- however IIRC 95'ish it changed to 30days.
Kevin S. Boland
Manager, Federal Sales
FN America, LLC
Office: 703.288.3500 x181 | Mobile: 703-244-1758  | Fax: 703.288.4505
www.fnhusa.com

Offline Good2Golf

  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Legend
  • *
  • 232,130
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 11,479
  • Dammit! I lost my sand-wedge on that last jump!
Re: Seeking Answers WRT Medals.......... Serious answers only please
« Reply #63 on: August 31, 2005, 22:03:56 »
I am not singling out mover1 but if there is one thing I would like to see, it is the requirement to spent 90 days in theatre before getting a medal.   There are way too many tour tourist out there collecting great racks without putting in the requisite amount of time.   30 days is not enough time to even unpack your barrack box!

My 2 cents.

Gunner, how about the infamous "24 hours" to get a bar (leaf) for the Gulf medal....many a 412 Sqn aricrew got that one for dropping off VIPs and sitting on the ramp overnight in Qatar...

*edit* for horrible spelling of Gunner's handle....
« Last Edit: August 31, 2005, 23:35:59 by Duey »

Offline Michael O'Leary

  • The moral high ground cannot be dominated by fire alone, it must be occupied to be claimed as held.
  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *****
  • 346,635
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 9,689
    • The Regimental Rogue
Re: Seeking Answers WRT Medals.......... Serious answers only please
« Reply #64 on: August 31, 2005, 22:27:35 »
Gennuer, how about the infamous "24 hours" to get a bar (leaf) for the Gulf medal....many a 412 Sqn aricrew got that one for dropping off VIPs and sitting on the ramp overnight in Qatar...


http://www.vac-acc.gc.ca/remembers/sub.cfm?source=collections/cmdp/mainmenu/group04

Quote
Africa Star
Awarded for a minimum one day service in an operational area of North Africa between 10 June 1940 and 12 May 1943.*

Pacific Star
Awarded for one day or more of operational service in the Pacific between 08 December 1941 and
02 September 1945.*

Burma Star
Awarded for one day or more of operational service during the Burma campaign, between 11 December 1941 and 02 September 1945.*

Italy Star
Awarded for one day operational service in Sicily or Italy between 11 June 1943 and 08 May 1945.*

France & Germany Star
Awarded for one day or more of service in France, Belgium, Holland or Germany between 06 June 1944 (D-Day) and 08 May 1945.*

Offline KevinB

  • Has Been
  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *****
  • 35,620
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 8,337
  • As a Matter of Fact the Sky is Blue in my world...
    • FN America
Re: Seeking Answers WRT Medals.......... Serious answers only please
« Reply #65 on: August 31, 2005, 22:32:09 »
Something tells me once you got to those theatres - you got stuck for more than one day...  ;)
Kevin S. Boland
Manager, Federal Sales
FN America, LLC
Office: 703.288.3500 x181 | Mobile: 703-244-1758  | Fax: 703.288.4505
www.fnhusa.com

Offline Michael O'Leary

  • The moral high ground cannot be dominated by fire alone, it must be occupied to be claimed as held.
  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *****
  • 346,635
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 9,689
    • The Regimental Rogue
Re: Seeking Answers WRT Medals.......... Serious answers only please
« Reply #66 on: August 31, 2005, 22:34:57 »
Thoiugh perhaps the occasional transport or aircraft ferry pilot never spent more than a day or two on the ground because of the nature of his duties, and after one such visit earned his star.

Offline Gunner

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 6,985
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 2,835
  • Artillery Forum Moderator
Re: Seeking Answers WRT Medals.......... Serious answers only please
« Reply #67 on: August 31, 2005, 23:32:04 »
IIRC back in the day   ;)   We had to have 90 days - a lot of guys did not get the UNFICYP or early UNPROFOR's do to that -- however IIRC 95'ish it changed to 30days.

It's still 90 days for UN missions.  All NATO ones are 30 days.
Had a wonderful ~26 years in the military and still miss it.

Offline mover1

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • 3,905
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 758
  • I wasn't looking at anybodys birthmark man........
Re: Seeking Answers WRT Medals.......... Serious answers only please
« Reply #68 on: September 01, 2005, 10:56:25 »
I am not singling out mover1 but if there is one thing I would like to see, it is the requirement to spent 90 days in theatre before getting a medal.   There are way too many tour tourist out there collecting great racks without putting in the requisite amount of time.   30 days is not enough time to even unpack your barrack box!

My 2 cents.

Well I am going have to charge you Stupidity TAX on your two cents.  ;)

The 78 days I was refering to was only the days of hostilities that made up Operation Allied Force. Its hard to do a six month tour when the shooting war lasts only a couple of months. Then AFTER the bombing. We reverted back to the original mission of enforcing no fly zones and power projection.
I spent from March until October on that tour.
Army guys can slam the airforce for whatever reasons they want. However just remember that how we live and how we fight are just natures of the beast.
If it makes you feel any better. The base golf couse in aviano was closed during hostilites because we had too much ordinance in the immediate area making it an usafe environment.  ;D
 




« Last Edit: September 02, 2005, 08:29:34 by mover1 »

Offline Gunner

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 6,985
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 2,835
  • Artillery Forum Moderator
Re: Seeking Answers WRT Medals.......... Serious answers only please
« Reply #69 on: September 01, 2005, 15:30:58 »
What part of "I'm not singling out mover1" didn't you understand.  Secondly, tone down your retoric or you will go through the warning system.  That was your freebie.
Had a wonderful ~26 years in the military and still miss it.

Offline Good2Golf

  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Legend
  • *
  • 232,130
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 11,479
  • Dammit! I lost my sand-wedge on that last jump!
Re: Seeking Answers WRT Medals.......... Serious answers only please
« Reply #70 on: September 01, 2005, 18:40:16 »
Something tells me once you got to those theatres - you got stuck for more than one day...   ;)

Quite right, Kevin.  My grandfather-in-law has all of those stars (and then some) except the Pacific Star.  He was in the 7th BEF, started as a Bren gunner in 36 in India and moved West, Southwest, South, West, Northeast, North, Northwest and Northeast and didn't stop until Holland in '45.  That's 9 years!  Holy schisse! 

And to think some of us complain about 6 months... :-\


Cheers,
Duey

Offline ArmyVern

    is awake.

  • Army.ca Myth
  • *****
  • 207,966
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 15,545
Re: Seeking Answers WRT Medals.......... Serious answers only please
« Reply #71 on: September 18, 2005, 09:56:33 »
OK...now I'm confused. I'm a girl deploying on Op Argus Feb 06-Aug 06. I can't seem to find anything out about it though. I'm confused about the medals though due to some of these posts. I was deployed on Op Apollo from 02 Jan 03 to Aug 03. I received the SWASM. BUT...in May we officially became Op Athena roto Zero instead of Op Apollo Roto 2. We only recd the 1 medal (the one we earned FIRST) as it was explained to us that you could not receive 2 medals for 1 deployment (this despite the fact that the Op and the mandate changed). But it seems to me that other tours are receiving 2 medals for 1 deployment (despite the fact that the Op and the mandate changed). We were there when the  boys came in on the TAT and when they left. They recd the GCS/GCM (depending upon where they bunked) and still we sat for another 3 months getting neither. Just one medal....so I don't understand why others would be getting 2 medals for one deployment. No I don't need another gong....I have 7....the CPSM and the CD being presented automatically...the others are for tours. I don't care, I just find it interesting that pers are now getting 2 for one deployment. My big wish is that I could get them to pay for me to get a proper sized chest to pin them on. So really, if anybody out there can fill me in on Op Argus details...I would appreciate it. I can't find their kitlist on the deployed ops website....nothing....
Hard by MCpl Elton Adams

If you or someone you love is having difficulty & would like to speak to someone who has been through a similar experience, who understands, & will respect your need for privacy and confidentiality, contact OSISS toll-free at 1-800-883-6094. You can locate the peer closest to you by logging on to www.osiss.ca, clicking on “Contact us” link & then choosing the “Peer” or “Family Support Network”. Help IS out there.

Offline Rider Pride

  • Mentor
  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *
  • 29,368
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 4,824
  • Easy to draw, hard to spell
Re: Seeking Answers WRT Medals.......... Serious answers only please
« Reply #72 on: September 18, 2005, 10:03:29 »
PM me, I know a bit about it.
"Return with your shield, or upon it."

Offline ArmyVern

    is awake.

  • Army.ca Myth
  • *****
  • 207,966
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 15,545
Re: Seeking Answers WRT Medals.......... Serious answers only please
« Reply #73 on: September 18, 2005, 10:12:00 »
Found it interesting...according to DHH those mbrs now entitled to wear the GCS/GCM (ie Air Ops over Macedonia, Yugo etc) have to turn in their NATO medals to receive this one according to DHH...I guess this is to avoid the 2 medals for 1 deployment deal???

http://www.dnd.ca/hr/dhh/honours_awards/engraph/honour_awards_e.asp?cat=3&Q_ID=112

http://www.dnd.ca/hr/dhh/honours_awards/engraph/honour_awards_e.asp?cat=3&Q_ID=113
Hard by MCpl Elton Adams

If you or someone you love is having difficulty & would like to speak to someone who has been through a similar experience, who understands, & will respect your need for privacy and confidentiality, contact OSISS toll-free at 1-800-883-6094. You can locate the peer closest to you by logging on to www.osiss.ca, clicking on “Contact us” link & then choosing the “Peer” or “Family Support Network”. Help IS out there.

MSE_OP18

  • Guest
Re: Seeking Answers WRT Medals.......... Serious answers only please
« Reply #74 on: September 18, 2005, 11:22:45 »
Interesting Forum here. I would like to know why the GCS was created so that if you have completed two tours under the same Op that you do not receive a numeral. I have done Roto 0 and Roto 3 and find it ridiculous that I receive nothing for doing two tours in the same place. The only recognition that we received was a lousy computer generated scroll with the two tour dates on it. And to that I might add the dates are completely wrong , although it was signed by the commander. A few of us thought it might be a good Idea that if Canada does not want to award numerals for tours then maybe another bar or a different coloured ISAF bar. It is disrespectful I think to spend over 12 months in one place(yes not consecutively) and not got anything for it. It is in my eyes about the medals but it is also Pride, Honor and respect!!!!!! Thats all I have to say about that.