Author Topic: Austrailian Army takes delivery of tank simulators  (Read 4394 times)

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Offline big bad john (John Hill)

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Austrailian Army takes delivery of tank simulators
« on: August 23, 2006, 12:35:30 »
http://www.smh.com.au/news/National/Army-takes-delivery-of-tank-simulators/2006/08/23/1156012578236.html

Army takes delivery of tank simulators
Email Print Normal font Large font August 23, 2006 - 9:14AM

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AdvertisementCrew members for Australia's new Abrams tanks will now be able to practise driving and shooting even though they don't have any actual vehicles.

With the first of 59 tanks set to arrive later this year, the army has taken delivery of an advanced simulation system which allows crew to train on what are basically very advanced video games.

Junior Defence Minister Bruce Billson said the driver and gunnery trainers would permit realistic training while reducing tank operating costs and environmental damage.

"The systems potentially offer a two-thirds reduction in the ammunition and kilometres needed to qualify crew on the M1 AIM Abrams," he said in a statement.

"These new systems will allow armoured crews and their instructors to be well prepared for the new vehicle."

Mr Billson opened the new Abrams M1A1 AIM tank driver training (TDT) and advanced gunnery training system (AGTS) at the School of Armour in Puckapunyal, Victoria.

The driver training system simulates a variety of terrain and weather conditions with realistic motion but without leaving a classroom environment.

Instructors can test driver response to system failures at no risk to vehicles or personnel, while the gunnery system enables rigorous training without the high cost of using live ammunition.

Both systems, made by defence company Lockheed Martin, are in widespread use in the US Army.

In 2004, Australia announced it would buy 59 Abrams tanks to replace its ageing Leopard tanks in a deal worth $600 million.

The driver and gunnery simulators are being acquired as part of a logistic support package.

Under the contract, Lockheed Martin will provide the Australian army with two relocatable AGTS, four fixed-site AGTS and one tank driver trainer.

Training will be carried out at Puckapunyal and Darwin.


Offline geo

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Re: Austrailian Army takes delivery of tank simulators
« Reply #1 on: August 23, 2006, 16:54:17 »
M1A1s?
Did OZ pick up used kit?
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Re: Austrailian Army takes delivery of tank simulators
« Reply #2 on: August 23, 2006, 17:08:23 »
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/2005/05/aim-programs-m1a1-tank-refits-and-rebuilds-continue/index.php

Yup.. M1 A1  / AIM program  link above

Being retrofitted all 7000 of them in the states.  May have bought some off the USA?
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Offline Digger Hale

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Re: Austrailian Army takes delivery of tank simulators
« Reply #3 on: August 23, 2006, 18:15:15 »
Theory is that we'll train on the vehicles in Australia, head over to the Sandpit and then the Yanks will lend us some. Makes a lot of sense when you think about it. As i'm sure many here will agree and many back home think however, theres a couple of better platforms we could have got our hands onto. The Abrams apparently isnt the greatest vehicle if it ever comes to having to us fight back home, especially M1A1's with the turbine. If it was solely for defence i'm sure we would have picked up a fleet of Leopard 2's or...well pretty much anything apart from the Abrams! :-\
"Then imitate the actions of the tiger, stiffen the sinews, conjure up the blood...
Now set the teeth and stretch the nostril wide,
Hold hard the breath, and bend up every spirit to his full height..."

Offline cobbler

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Re: Austrailian Army takes delivery of tank simulators
« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2006, 02:49:11 »
But at that price, with all the support equipment and vehicles included, delivered in such a short time and an MBT with almost total commanility with our primary ally, it really was the best choice.

And if we ever needed to defend on home soil, MBT's, of whatever amount we could possibly support, would be useless really.


edit- yeah they are used. They were kept in storage in Europe in case the cold war ever weant off, so they have not seen too much use. And it is said that they will be overhauled and zero-houred, hopefully it works.

Offline geo

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Re: Austrailian Army takes delivery of tank simulators
« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2006, 08:12:59 »
wasn't what I was thinking about.
Believe that the US is rolling-out M1A2's at this time so I figured that they coudn't be new OR that if they were, they were reserving their 2s for themselves while the 1s would go for export.
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Offline Red 6

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Re: Austrailian Army takes delivery of tank simulators
« Reply #6 on: August 25, 2006, 17:06:10 »
I never used the TDT, but the AGTS is just awesome. It's an improvement on the old UCOFT system, which has been in service since the 80's with series improvements. I watched a program about the tank plant in Lima, Ohio, a couple of weeks ago. It's amazing how they rebuild these tanks. The hulls and turrets are shipped to the plant from Anniston Army Depot and they are completely bare. Once the hull and turret arrive, production goes forward and the finished tank rolls out a month later. This is for all intents a brand new vehicle. 
« Last Edit: August 26, 2006, 08:38:53 by Red 6 »

Offline Digger Hale

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Re: Austrailian Army takes delivery of tank simulators
« Reply #7 on: August 26, 2006, 11:02:34 »
Well thats something
This is for all intents a brand new vehicle. 
Is that how it works? Probably should have realised that but then again its easier to think they just roll them out and onto a ship. While the vehicle is now in essence new, battle proven and being got on the cheap its still going to be criticised back home as being the wrong vehicle bought for the wrong reasons. Newspapers from a while ago were already labelling it an arse kissing move to show the US what great allies we are. From who i've talked to back home a lot of the army isnt sure about it either. Some reckon its a great idea others are bitter that we got rid of the Leo's. which work better in our environment. After hearing what you said though Red i'm not so sure how i feel about it....I think the only logical course of action is for my boss to send me on a Abrams drivers course so i can see for myself! I'll start typing that email right now
"Then imitate the actions of the tiger, stiffen the sinews, conjure up the blood...
Now set the teeth and stretch the nostril wide,
Hold hard the breath, and bend up every spirit to his full height..."

Offline Red 6

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Re: Austrailian Army takes delivery of tank simulators
« Reply #8 on: August 26, 2006, 13:02:36 »
Hey Trooper Hale: We went through all the same stuff in the US with naysayers about the M1 the Bradley,and the Apache in the 80's before they were proven in combat. Once your tankers get down in their crew positions and take those M1A1's out to the ranges and driving courses, it'll all vanish. It makes me wish I was young again! The biggest problem you'll have is keeping your drivers awake in that reclining seat on those long road marches.

Plus, the M1A1 has all sorts of cool things they don't tell you about in any manual:

1) The bustle rack is so big, every crewman can bring along everything PLUS the kitchen sink.
2) That 500 degree exhaust dries out wet sleeping bags in about 60 seconds. (Not recommended if you have a nylon bag though  ;) ) It's also awesome in the winter on the wash rack. In the Blackhorse, it was SOP to keep one of the tanks idling on the wash rack just for that reason.
3) The engine deck stays warm for about 4 hours after you shut down. Also, your whole crew can sleep on the engine deck because it's perfectly flat and level.
4) When it's raining real hard, you can rotate the turret over the side and the overhang makes a perfect roof.



Offline Digger Hale

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Re: Austrailian Army takes delivery of tank simulators
« Reply #9 on: August 26, 2006, 13:31:07 »
How come you dont sell more stuff Red? Feel free to knock on my door anytime you want and try to flog off a hoover! You've pretty well got me with those points, I'd love to try get a course on the Abrams and i'm sure the boys who'll get them will love it. I think a key feature of any vehicle is the ability to chuck all your crap into it and as the grunts crawl past throw jaffles and a couple of cans of soft drink at them. Bustle rack thus sounds pretty good.
Did you spend anytime on them?
"Then imitate the actions of the tiger, stiffen the sinews, conjure up the blood...
Now set the teeth and stretch the nostril wide,
Hold hard the breath, and bend up every spirit to his full height..."

Offline Red 6

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Re: Austrailian Army takes delivery of tank simulators
« Reply #10 on: August 26, 2006, 13:33:45 »
Roger, I was a 19D (Cav Scout) and in the 11th ACR, we had tanks and Bradleys in the same troop (Two platoons of each). The tankers were always below strength and they had to have four crewmen for gunnery. In 87, I loaded on an M1 and in 88 I loaded on an A1. We got M1's in 85, and transitioned to the M1A1 (HA) in the spring of 88. They were the ones with the DU armor package. The rest of my service in armor was on Bradleys.

(I looked back in my stuff just now. It was 86 and 87, respectively.)

PS _ I must be good at sales because I was an Army recruiter after Desert Storm.Here's a picture of me doing the deed. This was actually a publicity picture for a recruiting brochure that USAREC was working on, but it didn't make the cut. I was almost famous for a second. The kid in the picture was already in the Army, so technically, his smile was a fake...

« Last Edit: August 26, 2006, 13:46:02 by Red 6 »

Offline cobbler

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Re: Austrailian Army takes delivery of tank simulators
« Reply #11 on: August 26, 2006, 23:00:08 »
Newspapers from a while ago were already labelling it an arse kissing move to show the US what great allies we are.

Yeah but these are the same newspapers that have demonised the collins subs to ridiculous levels, yet who have never had a bad word about a navy project that actually sucks: the Anzacs ship project.

The standard of defence reporting in this country is abysmal.

"Troops" on frigates, ships manned by "300 officers", "battleships" heading for the gulf, "tanks" in timor, even the odd "RAAF blackhawk helicopter".
« Last Edit: August 26, 2006, 23:03:57 by cobbler »

Offline Digger Hale

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Re: Austrailian Army takes delivery of tank simulators
« Reply #12 on: August 27, 2006, 11:52:07 »
Red, that is one of the cheesiest photos EVER! Haha, nice one though, your my celebrity hero.
Your spot on Cobbler, the way papers describe the forces seems to be targeted at 10yr old kids. They hear a term and use it like theres no tomorrow. Why say frigate when you can say Battleship? That seems to be the idea, we did an Ex with the old Carriers where Prime news called the 12.7's "cannons" and the Carriers "Tanks". They were making us pose it shots and piss around, funniest thing for us was them filming from 50m away what they called a "meeting" which was actually a bunch of the boys showing each other porn mags. Now that was pretty funny. Another good one was them filming a live shoot from the cargo hatch. Reporter bent over and picked up a fresh casing in her freshly manicured hands. I could hear her scream in the drivers hole even with the engine going and the gun thumping.
Serves them right i reckon
"Then imitate the actions of the tiger, stiffen the sinews, conjure up the blood...
Now set the teeth and stretch the nostril wide,
Hold hard the breath, and bend up every spirit to his full height..."

Offline big bad john (John Hill)

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Re: Austrailian Army takes delivery of tank simulators
« Reply #13 on: September 24, 2006, 06:30:25 »
http://www.defense-aerospace.com/cgi-bin/client/modele.pl?session=dae.16742938.1131572689.Q3Jt0cOa9dUAAHzOZ4o&modele=jdc_34

Australia Gets World’s Best Tanks
 
 
(Source: Australian Department of Defence; issued Sept. 22, 2006)
 
   
 
 The Abrams tanks represent a significant step in providing Australia with a stronger Defence Force, with which to protect our people, interests and values. 
 
Today, the Australian Government has taken delivery of the first 18 of 59 Abrams Tanks. This project is an investment of more than $500 million in Australia’s security. 
 
The Abrams project is ahead of schedule, and within budget. These tanks are the most advanced and capable tank in the world. 
 
This capability will be increasingly important, as widespread proliferation of cheap, high tech and lethal anti-armour, anti-personnel weapons could pose an increasing threat in any future conflicts. 
 
The Abrams Tank will provide our Army with the mobility, firepower and sophisticated networking capability with which to defeat the enemy, along with superior protection that will enhance safety for our soldiers. These tanks will be harder to hit. When the Abrams hit, they will hit harder. 
 
Abrams tanks are a key component of the Hardened and Networked Army initiative announced last year. They will also enable us to co-ordinate and network with allies. 
 
We will have a number of options for transporting these tanks, including: our new C-17 heavy airlift aircraft; Amphibious Ships; the Adelaide to Darwin rail network; and our new tank transporter trucks. 
 
In total, Australia will take delivery of 59 Abrams tanks, seven M88A2 Hercules Armoured Recovery Vehicles, 14 Heavy Tank Transporters, eight Refueling Trucks, six Advanced Gunnery Training Simulators and one Tank Driver Trainer Simulator. 
 
This significant investment further illustrates the importance of the Government’s long standing commitment to Defence and ability to deliver a strong economy. Since 1996, funding for Defence has increased by more than 40% in real terms and the 2006/07 Budget committed to an average 3% real increase each year for the next decade. 
 
The Abrams will be transported to the School of Armour at Puckapunyal, with the remainder of the 59 tanks eventually being based in Darwin. 
 
Australian industry is playing a key role in delivering this capability. The prime contractor for the Heavy Tank Transporter is MAN Military Vehicle Systems Australia Pty Ltd. Drake Trailers Pty Ltd, an Australian-owned and operated Brisbane-based company, is manufacturing 14 swing-wing trailers. Brisbane-based MAN Automotive Imports Pty Ltd is making final modifications, conducting compliance testing, and will manage the ongoing repair and maintenance support. 
 
-ends-