Topic: Fitness for Operational Requirements of CAF Employment ( FORCE )

[FlyLikeAnEagle]

Hi. So i'm starting my BMQ on the 11th and just want to know 1 thing. How long is the day 1 run? 2 miles or more?

[PuckChaser]

As long as it doesn't take you 2 hours to jog the 4 miles (6.4 KM) you say you jog every day, you'll be fine. We also use Kilometres, not miles.

[BeyondTheNow]

Hi. So i'm starting my BMQ on the 11th and just want to know 1 thing. How long is the day 1 run? 2 miles or more?

Day 1 run? Where did you hear that? Is that an actual 'thing' now? "Day 1" is full of a lot of rushing around in general. (I'm trying my damnedest to recall a specific, organized, PT running period on my first day of both pl's and can't. Not saying it can't happen, just saying it didn't with me.)

Your first few distance runs in general, however, will start out at pretty much the 5-7km mark and start going up from there. My experience was that the distance runs happened a lot during morning PT, intermingled with burpees, jumping jacks, push-ups and such when the staff felt like it.
Occasionally it was a straight run at a pretty good pace, no stopping/extra conditioning, a bit of puking by some.

I found that a PT period during the day was a lot more conditioning and such. So circuits, sprint exercises, log PT, weights, etc.

Like PC said though, if you can run like you've already mentioned, you shouldn't have any issues with the pace and/or distances introduced at the beginning.

[mariomike]

So i'm starting my BMQ on the 11th and just want to know 1 thing. How long is the day 1 run?

To add to the above two replies, see also,

Running at BMQ
https://www.google.ca/search?rls=com.microsoft%3Aen-CA%3AIE-Address&rlz=1I7GGHP_en-GBCA592&dcr=0&q=site%3Aarmy.ca++running+bmq&oq=site%3Aarmy.ca++running+bmq&gs_l=psy-ab.12...0.0.0.138472.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0..0.0.foo%2Cersl%3D1%2Cfett%3D1%2Cewh%3D0%2Cnso-enksa%3D0%2Cnso-enfk%3D1%2Cnso-usnt%3D1%2Cnso-qnt-npqp%3D0-1%2Cnso-qnt-npdq%3D0-45%2Cnso-qnt-npt%3D0-09%2Cnso-qnt-ndc%3D300%2Ccspa-dspm-nm-mnp%3D0-045%2Ccspa-dspm-nm-mxp%3D0-1125%2Cnso-unt-npqp%3D0-15%2Cnso-unt-npdq%3D0-25%2Cnso-unt-npt%3D0-06%2Cnso-unt-ndc%3D300%2Ccspa-uipm-nm-mnp%3D0-0075%2Ccspa-uipm-nm-mxp%3D0-0525...0...1..64.psy-ab..0.0.0.LkmXNeNZgpE

[FlyLikeAnEagle]

As long as it doesn't take you 2 hours to jog the 4 miles (6.4 KM) you say you jog every day, you'll be fine. We also use Kilometres, not miles.

4 miles = 32 minutes to 40 minutes. Is the course their flat or hilly?

[BeyondTheNow]

4 miles = 32 minutes to 40 minutes. Is the course their flat or hilly?

On the base, it's flat.

[Eye In The Sky]

Around the Mega its flat.

https://www.google.ca/maps/place/Canadian+Forces+Leadership+%26+Recruit+School/@45.3002963,-73.2903996,808m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x4cc9a2226691b8c5:0x21d36140ca67fc16!8m2!3d45.3002925!4d-73.2882109

[jdog]

Regarding the FORCE test, perhaps I'm missing something...
I see 2 different "scoring" systems. One in time and another in points.

I was told there is a total of 400 points, but nobody could answer what was the "pass" number, but I was also told there was a time per test that must be passed.

My assumption is if I do everything within the time allotted, it's a pass? How do the points come into the mix?

And lastly, what is the final exam at week 7-8 like? Is it just a repeat of the FORCE test during the initial period?

I was also told these two were contradictory because of everything changing (Example: I'm told the 13KM ruck march is out and being replaced by a march/shoot combo, but only by some recruiters).

I'm sorry if my information doesn't make sense, but I think my questions are hitting right in the middle of everything being in a flux state.

Thanks!

[dapaterson]

There is a time limit for each of three of the four FORCE elements.  Each item is assessed individually.

[ModlrMike]

Taking this in a slightly different direction...

Has anyone seen the output data from the FORCE? Do we know where the various age and gender results fall relative to the expectation? For example if you're a 57 year old male and do the shuttle run in 44 seconds, how does that compare to all the other 57 year old CF males? Secondly, do we know how the FORCE standards correlate to the general population? What population percentile would that same 57 year old be in compared to the public at large?

[dapaterson]

If you go to the dfit internet site, you can plot your stats and see where you fit.

[Humphrey Bogart]

From the DFit site:

Bronze: you have a result better than or equal to 50% of the CAF population in your respective age and gender group.
Silver: you have a result better than or equal to 84% of the CAF population in your respective age and gender group.
Gold: you have a result better than or equal to 98% of the CAF population in your respective age and gender group.
Platinum: you have a result better than or equal to 99.9% of the CAF population in your respective age and gender group.

https://www.cfmws.com/en/AboutUs/PSP/DFIT/Fitness/FORCEprogram/Pages/Fitness-Profile-FAQ.aspx

[daftandbarmy]

From the DFit site:

https://www.cfmws.com/en/AboutUs/PSP/DFIT/Fitness/FORCEprogram/Pages/Fitness-Profile-FAQ.aspx

But what if we're all really unfit?

[Humphrey Bogart]

But what if we're all really unfit?

This was one of the original critiques I had of the methodology behind the FORCE test.  It was taken from a statistical analysis of the entire CAF population over a number of years and then a standard was determined.

The problem was this was at a time when the entire CAF was under scrutiny for being a physically unfit force.  So we base the standard off an average taken from unfit individuals.

[dapaterson]

But what if we're all really unfit?

Remuster to Int?

[dapaterson]

This was one of the original critiques I had of the methodology behind the FORCE test.  It was taken from a statistical analysis of the entire CAF population over a number of years and then a standard was determined.

Nope. The common tasks were assessed. Standards identified for them.  Exercises identified as predictors of success in the common tasks. Consolidated standards set for FORCE test.

Incentive levels? A different situation.

[kratz]

Remuster to Int?  Cyber Op?

FTFY   

[daftandbarmy]

This was one of the original critiques I had of the methodology behind the FORCE test.  It was taken from a statistical analysis of the entire CAF population over a number of years and then a standard was determined.

The problem was this was at a time when the entire CAF was under scrutiny for being a physically unfit force.  So we base the standard off an average taken from unfit individuals.

Canada: Going. For. Bronze.

[daftandbarmy]

This was one of the original critiques I had of the methodology behind the FORCE test.  It was taken from a statistical analysis of the entire CAF population over a number of years and then a standard was determined.

The problem was this was at a time when the entire CAF was under scrutiny for being a physically unfit force.  So we base the standard off an average taken from unfit individuals.

#canada-goingforbronze

[Haggis]

This was one of the original critiques I had of the methodology behind the FORCE test.  It was taken from a statistical analysis of the entire CAF population over a number of years and then a standard was determined.

The problem was this was at a time when the entire CAF was under scrutiny for being a physically unfit force.  So we base the standard off an average taken from unfit individuals.

I was a lab rat for the final round of FORCE development, representing the "broken, over 50 male" demographic.  Part of the reason folks like me were recruited was that when the initial development was done, units provided volunteers who were, in most cases very or ridiculously fit.  And why not?  You want your unit to look good in a national trial, don't you?

However, if that had been the only data used to determine the standard, that standard would have been quite artificially high for application to the entire CAF (remembering that the FORCE standard is the lowest common benchmark and is MOSID, environment, gender and age blind.)

[OceanBonfire]

I am currently training for the FORCE test and am I can do the sandbag lift and the loaded shuttle in half the time required with more weight and higher lifts, however I cannot seem to get my 20-Metre Rushes times down below 51 seconds. My specific issue seems to be not getting up fast enough after slapping the ground.

...

Similar issue: I'm very fit and I did a mock FORCE test at my gym. Nailed all the other timed events in about half the time but I did the 20m rushes in 48-49 seconds.

[PuckChaser]

Similar issue: I'm very fit and I did a mock FORCE test at my gym. Nailed all the other timed events in about half the time but I did the 20m rushes in 48-49 seconds.

All the other times are easy to attain in half the time. How many pushups can you do? Getting up with speed is like an explosive pushup. You may also be slow getting to the ground, which will waste time.

[Humphrey Bogart]

Similar issue: I'm very fit and I did a mock FORCE test at my gym. Nailed all the other timed events in about half the time but I did the 20m rushes in 48-49 seconds.

Maybe you aren't as fit as you think you are? 

[OceanBonfire]

All the other times are easy to attain in half the time. How many pushups can you do? Getting up with speed is like an explosive pushup. You may also be slow getting to the ground, which will waste time.

30 pushups without slowing down. I'm starting to slow down after 30. I was concerned about staying behind the line when I'm on the ground. I'm thinking about focusing on burpees for improvement.

Maybe you aren't as fit as you think you are?

Yeah, possibly.

[PuckChaser]

Burpees, although terribly evil, will help.