Liberal Minority Government 2025 - ???

[PrairieFella]

That's nice. Is it lost on you that we have fundamentally different relationships with those two superpowers?

I'm betting a majority of people on this site, including myself, have deployed side-by-side with the American military. We are in mutual defence of one-another, we share a border, we share values and culture. Can you say the same for the CCP and China?

The Trump rhetoric put on boost by disingenuous media has really impacted some of you.

10 years ago, 5 years ago, 1 year ago I'd agree with you. Right now though, our sovereignty is actively being threatened by one of the superpowers and it's not China. If you're stuck in the past, that's your prerogative but the American government is no longer a reliable friend or partner. Further, it doesn't matter that you deployed with Americans, they don't set their national policy. Until this current administration either course corrects or is replaced, it would be prudent to be equally wary of the US and China. We've been burnt by the Americans a couple times now, it's irrational to expect we won't be burnt again thus caution is warranted.

 

[QV]

We've been burning our allies on the reg. NATO spending anyone? Canada is not the innocent player in this world of geopolitics. If we want a realistic solution to the problems we better undertand our own faults in this. Our sovereignty is threatened by our very own actions for the last decades. The US is not going to allow it's closest neighbor, trading partner, and military ally to become a platform for the CCP to exert pressure on them. They will do something about that if Canada won't.

A mature approach to defence and tighter economic ties with the US is the answer - A pan North American approach, doing our part fairly. Not taking our broken ball and running to the Euros or entertaining the CCP. Trump is temporary, and his approach is ham-fisted, but the same sentiment has been festering for years and will remain long after he is gone.

 

[JLB50]

Alberta wants the feds to butt out of provincial matters, but wants the feds to guarantee transportation access to all points of compass for a land locked province, and repeal laws that are clearly within the federal mandate like ocean tankers restrictions.


Hmmm.

AKA having one’s cake and eating it too.

 

[Quirky]

The US is not going to allow it's closest neighbor, trading partner, and military ally to become a platform for the CCP to exert pressure on them. They will do something about that if Canada won't.

Canadians will protect the homeland through social media virtue signaling posts and wearing Elbows Up merchandise.

 

[Remius]

We've been burning our allies on the reg. NATO spending anyone? Canada is not the innocent player in this world of geopolitics. If we want a realistic solution to the problems we better undertand our own faults in this. Our sovereignty is threatened by our very own actions for the last decades. The US is not going to allow it's closest neighbor, trading partner, and military ally to become a platform for the CCP to exert pressure on them. They will do something about that if Canada won't.

A mature approach to defence and tighter economic ties with the US is the answer - A pan North American approach, doing our part fairly. Not taking our broken ball and running to the Euros or entertaining the CCP. Trump is temporary, and his approach is ham-fisted, but the same sentiment has been festering for years and will remain long after he is gone.

Disagree. We need to decouple. Our biggest liability has been shown to be too reliant on the US. We had a pan NA approach with CUSMA, which is no longer worth the paper it’s written on with made up grievances to justify tariffs that could not have otherwise been implemented.

Trump is temporary. Trumpism is not.

 

[YZT580]

Allowing the Religious ultra-Right to dictate policy has been a disaster for Conservatives continent-wide and I say that as a practicing Catholic. These evangelical pressure groups have been the Trojan Horse for all sorts of hijinks at the provincial and federal level. Unless the PCs and High Tories unite, they're never take their parties back from the likes of Jenni Bryne and Preston Manning.

I think you have it backwards. It is not the evangelicals or the Religious ultra-rights but rather the use that the media and the left-wing politicians make of their statements. Personally, I consider both abortion and the mess we have made of MAID (good idea when they started) as being tantamount to murder. I can say that here and, while I expect to be flamed, nothing else will come of it. If I were running for office as a conservative and answered a question regarding either of those two concepts honestly to reflect my personal opinions the press would have a field day and the headlines would read conservatives advocating for..... Yet my statements are not dictating policy, they are simply my opinions. Very few, if any ultra-right concepts make it off the convention floor and become policy and those that do aren't necessarily wrong, they just differ from your opinion of what policy should be. So the electorate isn't voting on conservative policy as much as they are voting on what the CBC states is conservative policy.

 

[QV]

Disagree. We need to decouple. Our biggest liability has been shown to be too reliant on the US. We had a pan NA approach with CUSMA, which is no longer worth the paper it’s written on with made up grievances to justify tariffs that could not have otherwise been implemented.

Trump is temporary. Trumpism is not.

And our agreement eleven years ago in 2014 to reach 2% defence spending is not worth the paper it was written on. Now more than ever it would have been important to have a properly funded and equiped military, and have the ability to provide cheap energy to those allies asking for it in lieu of Russian energy.

No business case/climate zealotry and $10/daycare over defence were Canada's choices. Elbows up!

Now you think it's more prudent to shirk the US and seek more alignment with the Euros? Right, have fun with that one.

 

[IKnowNothing]

This conversation has drifted pretty far from a decently reliable data point showing a very concerning weak point within the CPC membership.

That more than half are doubting elections is a concern in and of itself. Inference as to where that doubt came from, and how influenceable that group is- moreso.

 

[Quirky]

Sooooo, how about that Carney in the White House.

 

[Lumber]

Perfect speech. I don't care about any hardships as long as the final direction is sound. Being willing to live with uncomfortable for a while to make long term improvements is pretty much a given in just about anything in life.

So then why were you so irate with the Liberal plans of the last decade? Some hardship for a brighter, cleaner, sunnier future?

 

[Remius]

And our agreement eleven years ago in 2014 to reach 2% defence spending is not worth the paper it was written on. Now more than ever it would have been important to have a properly funded and equiped military, and have the ability to provide cheap energy to those allies asking for it in lieu of Russian energy.

Or even before 2014. Don’t forget that Harper never came close to that either. That doesn’t matter to Trump as he has attacked countries who have. That’s not a real grievance.

No business case/climate zealotry and $10/daycare over defence were Canada's choices. Elbows up!

Yep. And we’ll continue to make our choice as a sovereign nation. Just less reliant on the US with a more diversified economic situation.

Now you think it's more prudent to shirk the US and seek more alignment with the Euros? Right, have fun with that one.

Sure. Europe right now certainly seems to be more reliable. No need to shirk the US. We just don’t need to get any closer and we just have to find other partners to build redundancy.

 

[QV]

Or even before 2014. Don’t forget that Harper never came close to that either. That doesn’t matter to Trump as he has attacked countries who have. That’s not a real grievance.

Yep. And we’ll continue to make our choice as a sovereign nation. Just less reliant on the US with a more diversified economic situation.

Sure. Europe right now certainly seems to be more reliable. No need to shirk the US. We just don’t need to get any closer and we just have to find other partners to build redundancy.

What other countries are responsible for defence of North America?

Canada's position within the EU would be even more muted and irrelevant than it's relations with the US. Just based on geography alone, then subtract the cultural differences. It would be a significant downgrade.

 

[Remius]

What other countries are responsible for defence of North America?

You mentioned the NATO 2%. NORAD is something else.

Feel free to watch. NORAD Commander gave his assessment and seems to be ok with that particular relationship.

Canada's position within the EU would be even more muted and irrelevant than its relations with the US. Just based on geography alone, then subtract the cultural differences. It would be a significant downgrade.

I’m not sure what you are arguing here exactky. What position within Europe are you talking about? by that logic we should not expand trade anywhere but with the US. More trade. More defence pacts. The US doesn’t want our stuff, then we should find markets that do.

 

[Halifax Tar]

I'm not talking policy, I'm talking direction. Do you think Jason Kenney would be entertaining any of this separatist stuff? Do you think it would have any life politically if the Right wing of the Wildrose Party hadn't co-opted the UCP? Groups like Take Back Alberta are funneled money by American religious interest groups who then push their agendas and portray it as "the grassroots". Here's a decent rundown by the National Observer.

The far-right’s takeover of the UCP is now complete

The membership of Alberta's United Conservative Party seems determined to drag the province back to the 1950s, and Premier Danielle Smith may not be able (or willing) to stop it. Just remember, Alberta conservatives: You wanted this.

www.nationalobserver.com

And that's just Alberta.

This is your quote:

Allowing the Religious ultra-Right to dictate policy has been a disaster for Conservatives continent-wide and I say that as a practicing Catholic. These evangelical pressure groups have been the Trojan Horse for all sorts of hijinks at the provincial and federal level. Unless the PCs and High Tories unite, they're never take their parties back from the likes of Jenni Bryne and Preston Manning.

I just want to know what CPC policy is being dictated by the Religious ultra-right wing ?

 

[PrairieFella]

This is your quote:



I just want to know what CPC policy is being dictated by the Religious ultra-right wing ?

That's a mischaracterization of my thoughts on my part. I meant moreso direction as I elaborated on.

 

[Halifax Tar]

That's a mischaracterization of my thoughts on my part. I meant moreso direction as I elaborated on.

Ok.

 

[Halifax Tar]

The whole thing is going to put PP in awkward spot running in Alberta. No doubt he’ll be asked to weigh in on any Alberta referendum talk. How he handles it will be something that will stick nationally.

OR and hear me out here...

PP Doubles down, abandons his Central Canadian presence and goes full wexit con. Thus dismissing the CPC to opposition side of the house for as long as a Canada exists.

 

[PrairieFella]

Kinda like self-identifying and taxing as rugged conservatives while spending and providing social services/ safety nets like socialists.

It's a house of cards propped up by O&G royalties, without a meaningful nest egg built up for "what comes next"

To shift to this for a moment, this is probably the biggest fuckup Alberta has made in the past fifty years. The Heritage Fund was pilfered and other oil revenues were blown on freeways and corpo welfare. With some forethought they could have ended up like Norway with a wealth fund in the trillions. That said, Ottawa fucked this up equally, they should have been doing the same thing with some of the O&G revenue.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Read up above a few threads of the history of these guys. They have pretty much been doing this in every by election since 2021 (ie before PP was leader).

They targeted Freeland and PP last election because they were high profile candidates.

I never heard of these guys before. You're right they've been going after a bunch of people not just Poilievre. Blood in the water is a good analogy.

 

[Remius]

Canadian exports to U.S. slump, but surge to other countries

Merchandise trade exports fell 0.2 per cent while imports were down 1.5 per cent, leaving Canada with a smaller-than-expected trade deficit of $506-million

www.theglobeandmail.com

More of this is needed.