Air Force Temperate Combat Boot - Initial Issue

[dimsum]

I got a pair of these today to replace one of my pairs of aircrew boots.  While the "speed" lacing and the soft soles are nice, the dreaded heel cup gave me blisters after walking around for 20 min.  I'm not sure whether that's because they are narrower than my GPB and CWWBs (but not by much) or because there's a defect in both heel cups, but I was hobbling by the time I got to where I was going. 

Since everything else fits fine (much better than the GPB actually), is there a heel insert that I can get to reduce the chafing from the metal (?) heel cup?  Or, is there a way of breaking it in (hopefully without destroying my feet in the process)?  And, to top it off, are stores actually not issuing the old-school aircrew boots anymore?

 

[Eye In The Sky]

I got a pair of these today to replace one of my pairs of aircrew boots.  While the "speed" lacing and the soft soles are nice, the dreaded heel cup gave me blisters after walking around for 20 min.  I'm not sure whether that's because they are narrower than my GPB and CWWBs (but not by much) or because there's a defect in both heel cups, but I was hobbling by the time I got to where I was going. 

Since everything else fits fine (much better than the GPB actually), is there a heel insert that I can get to reduce the chafing from the metal (?) heel cup?  Or, is there a way of breaking it in (hopefully without destroying my feet in the process)?  And, to top it off, are stores actually not issuing the old-school aircrew boots anymore?

I don't know about the old aircrew boots.  I don't think they are issuing anymore "old" style out at YAW anymore...its all the 'new stuff'.  The heel is a leather 'heel counter pocket' one if you look inside, same as the last picture Matt Fisher posted in this thread.  Blistering/discomfort seems to be a common problem with most people, not only with our Air Force TCBs but with the stuff the army is getting out of the CTS Project as well.

 

[dimsum]

Can you cut it out, by any chance?

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Can you cut it out, by any chance?

That I don't know.  If that starts to be a trend though, I can see the folks at Wing Supply start checking for that when people want to ummmmm "exchange them"  ;D

 

[George Wallace]

Can you cut it out, by any chance?

I am sure you can, but what will that do to improve the boot?  Nothing.  The results of your cutting it out will cause an uneven fit to boot, with the cloth fraying and bunching up causing even worse damage to your feet.  So, in the end, it will only cause more foot discomfort and injury.

 

[dimsum]

Understood.  Does anyone know if you can "soften" the heel counter pocket, whether by the old "soak in hot water" method or otherwise?

 

[medaid]

Um... Just a question for those who know, isn't it against the law (Occupation Safety and Hazards) to supply defective equipment to your employees that causes injury to them?

I'd say the CF's done that with almost every pair of boots I've gotten so far. Doesn't matter if it's small injury or large injury, it's still an injury. If a persistent problem occurs or complications develop as a result of the initial injury no matter how small, the CF would have a huge problem on its hands.

Just wondering that's all.

 

[armyvern]

Um... Just a question for those who know, isn't it against the law (Occupation Safety and Hazards) to supply defective equipment to your employees that causes injury to them?

I'd say the CF's done that with almost every pair of boots I've gotten so far. Doesn't matter if it's small injury or large injury, it's still an injury. If a persistent problem occurs or complications develop as a result of the initial injury no matter how small, the CF would have a huge problem on its hands.

Just wondering that's all.

But that's where you run into the 80% ratio ... and fact of it is --- most of our footwear is acceptable to that greater margin.

The error in this ratio is that it is inclusive of many folks doing many different jobs ... and while the MkIIIs were fine for me for 80% of my job, they aren't fine for an infantry guy in 80% of his job.

That's where trials err. Trials include a wide variety of personnel doing a wide variety of everyday "tasks". If the infantry guys on the trial see only 70% deeming the boots "acceptable" (because of course the infantry guys on the trial are humping rucks with them etc) but the others on the trials see a 90% statisfaction/acceptability rate during the trials (because of course those people just wore them around a "normal" workplace stocking shelves, sitting at a desk etc) - that equals an 80% overall satisfaction rating (the margin they have to meet to bring something "into service"), thus they are deemed to be "good to go".

This logic is flawed - in that the only figures that should be considered for the "getting down and dirty" jobs are those that involved "down and dirty" tasks during trials. Having the infantry forced into boot XXX because the vast majority of desk workers partaking in trials deemed the "boots OK for my daily workload" ... is just NOT on.

Just look at the cadpat boots wandering around on feet of NDHQ "trial" people - if you think their comments/satisfaction rate is not going to impact upon the trial outcome ... guess again. Should it? Absolutely not. Even the new MWO in CTS is now wearing a pair of the cadpat boots. Why? Is he now mysteriously somehow part of the trials? I'd imagine that 'must' be the case seeing as how this item of kit is not even authorized for issue or even "brought into force" as of yet.

If something is not acceptable to the troops on the pointy end of the post who don't enjoy the benfit of "trialling" something while perched quite comfortably upon their butt behind a desk (because that's NOT how it is out here in the real world where the kit actually HAS TO matter and work) it shouldn't be deemed acceptable by the CF. But right now, it is.

And, even if the kept pointy end "satisfaction rates" seperate from the rest - there'd never be one style of boot that met the standard for those down and dirty jobs and that was found to be acceptable by 80% of them precisely because fully 100% of our feet are all different.

Footwear Allowance. Now.

 

[navymich]

Understood.  Does anyone know if you can "soften" the heel counter pocket, whether by the old "soak in hot water" method or otherwise?

They do soften on their own, honestly.  The time allowance for it is different for everyone though.  Mine only took a couple of wearings, luckily.  You might try pushing back and forth on the top of the heel area (from inside out and vice versa) to work it in a bit.  Good luck, and remember...you could always go back to sleeping with one eye open during workups!!  ;D

 

[medaid]

Footwear Allowance. Now.

Yup!

 

[dimsum]

Good luck, and remember...you could always go back to sleeping with one eye open during workups!!  ;D

I might end up on Sea Kings...what makes you think I won't?    :'(

 

[CLOTJunkie]

Note to Mich:

You may be Air Force, but if you're deploying overseas into a position directly supporting Land Force Operations --- you are then entitled to the D01301 Land Force Operational Field Clothing and equipment scale ... that would include the boots made for rucking ...

Just saying is all ... 

D01301 (Land Force Operational) and D01341AJ (Air Force deployment) have been superceded by D11115; I thought. Vern please correct me if I am mistaken.

I had to exchange my fist pair at Supply this morning.  The right portion of the steel/safety toe on the right boot wasn't shaped properly and every stride I took it was diggin' into my toe.  I was chicken-walking before I got to the car.

I took them back and asked to try on a new pair as they were not wearable.  The civie at the counter stuck his hand in them and said "they feel fine to me".  :  My reply was "well unfortunately my foot and your hand aren't the same shape".   

I got a new pair and they seem fine.  I have to keep in mind, these aren't combat boots, they are more geared towards safety boots, despite the name TCBs.  Not a chance, given the choice, that I will wear these on anything like BSERE or anything other than general duties around the Wing.  I'll wear Pair #2 the rest of this week.  First thoughts are they are somewhat lighter than but not as comfortable as the CWWBs.

As far as military-looking safety boots go, they do the job but Airmich, I have to say, I feel for you knowing you did your first ever work-up trng and BFT in these clunkers.    I hope other AF types deploying are aware or find out they can get the CTS issue boots; while they aren't Magnums or Matterhorns, they gotta be better for 'green work' than these Temperate Combat Safety Boots are.

However, as a general utility boot for most of the Air Force, they should do fine.  Hopefully Joe and Jane Taxpayer are getting a good bang for their buck for them. 

The issue on the boots is becoming well known... We've been returning them left right and center. Good thing they have a two year warranty from the manufacturer. This also is now the boot that the entire Air Force is wearing; aircrew and SAR TECHs included. God knows many members aren't happy.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Not that this matters much but, just dealing with the weight of these clunkers alone...one TCB boot weighs more than a set of my "special issue" boots I have for my orthodics (1 x pair of Magnum Stealth IIs for summer, 1 x pair of Bates M-9 Assaults for winter).

 

[aesop081]

I got my first pair and i am returning it as soon as i get back to home base. Every step i take the left boot makes a loud clicking sound coming from just under my heel.

POS

 

[Eric_911]

I heard a dirty little rumour that members of Army DEU who are entitled to Steel-Toe footwear may also be entitled to these new Air Force boots.

The way it was explained to me had something to do with the Army not having an in-service safety boot with water-resistant vapour-permeable liner. Seems kinda sketchy to me.

Can anyone confirm/disprove?

The last thing I need is two more pairs of boots, but it'd be worth a shot to see if they're any better then the old style "Boot, General Safety" that I'm rocking right now.

(Edit to clarify)

 

[Loachman]

This also is now the boot that the entire Air Force is wearing; aircrew and SAR TECHs included.

Not that I am a** f**ce, but no, I am not wearing these things.

And resistance is not futile...

 

[dimsum]

Not that I am a** f**ce, but no, I am not wearing these things.

And resistance is not futile...

I could be wrong, but I think he means that if you are getting boots issued, they will be the TCB (no more Aircrew Boots.)  Come to think of it, that's a lot of new stuff for the surplus stores.

 

[aesop081]

(no more Aircrew Boots.) 

Dont be so quick to jump to conclusions.

Further to that, the brown ones are still on trial.

 

[Loachman]

I never bothered to get the aircrew boot in the first place. I stuck with the regular combat boot. I have learned to avoid as much a** f**ce-specific equipment as I can if there is an Army equivalent, as the latter usually works much better.

After suffering the CWWBs for a couple of weeks in Wainwright in March I bought a pair of Magnum Stealths at the Wainwright kitshop. Those, with Gore-Tex socks when required, are far superior. It took me several weeks to get over the effects of the CWWBs, which I didn't like from the moment that I tried on. I exchanged them for a pair of Army WWBs later, but I am not likely to ever wear those either.

 

[CLOTJunkie]

It's all position driven obviously; personnel holding a CC3 position; regardless of element will be issued these boots... It's got a lot of Army folk pissed off; especially units that do the BFT for unit PT. There is a lot of direction coming down the line lately with regards to the CEMs boots; most of it coming recommendation from CEMS with authority of A4. It's a shame they're turning out to be such a terrible procurement. I am fully in agreement with a footwear allowance... It would make SO much more sense.