Boot, General Purpose (Mk III acting/interim replacement)

[armyvern]

- Of course they are, just like any other guvmint contract.

- Solution:  Stock "Alternate Standard" runners and Cbt Boots through the Logistek DEU points system. Release extra points to all pers for the runners, and only those pers medically chitted for commercial combat boot replacement.  Do NOT provide it as an option to all, otherwise some units will enforce standardization of non-standard footwear on their soldiers.

This won't fly. Logistik-Unicorp IS a civilian company which just happens to be the current contractor to supply DEU.

No civilian company that I know wants to stock their shelves (and thus incur overhead costs) for some other companies materials -- that's just bad business (and why would we pay them extra to do this ... when stores that make/sell footwear that works are already doing so at NO cost to the CF until we actually purchase for someone who needs the boots from them??) That's exactly the reason that Logistik doesn't do buttons, badges, collar dogs etc and why you still get those items from Clothing Stores. They simply are not the contractor who manufacturer's those items, thus they don't stock or carry them. And, the CF is one of Logistiks smallest customers ... a mere drop in their bucket.

 

[Yrys]

"annual BTU allowance"

I have to ask (it's not in the military database). What does BTU stand for ?

 

[Nfld Sapper]

I have to ask (it's not in the military database). What does BTU stand for ?

Brassiere Temperate Underwear, only reason I know what it is, is  that I have to inform the female members of my section about it.

 

[Yrys]

Thanks

Brassiere Temperate Underwear, only reason I know what it is, is  that I have to inform the female members of my section about it.

If you say so  .

 

[armyvern]

Thanks

If you say so  .

He's right. Here I thought my references to "bras & boobs" would make it obvious!!  ;D

CTS BTU webpage

 

[Yrys]

Well, I guessed that "B" was breasts related but TU was a mystery to me... So that "next-to-skin garment" is
a sport bra.

 

[armyvern]

Well, I guessed that "B" was breasts related but TU was a mystery to me... So that "next-to-skin garment" is
a sport bra.

That about sums it up, yes. And, someone has now added "BTU" to the acronyms listing.

 

[Yrys]

:king:

Add : Oups, it's not a "+1" post but almost...

I add acronyms in the database when I don't get it, it's not there and someone explain a TLA...

 

[OldSolduer]

Back to the boots.....someone said each pair of feet are different. What will work for me will not necessarily work for one of my soldiers. I prefer Original Swat, while many prefer the Mark IIIs. I think that as long as the boot is black and combat style, and that they work, use em!

 

[Gunner98]

:king:
I add acronyms in the database when I don't get it, it's not there and someone explain a TLA...

TLA as in Three-Letter Acronym - examples CIA, FBI, CBC, RAF?

 

[BinRat55]

Back to the boots.....someone said each pair of feet are different. What will work for me will not necessarily work for one of my soldiers. I prefer Original Swat, while many prefer the Mark IIIs. I think that as long as the boot is black and combat style, and that they work, use em!

I have been wearing Magnum II's for the past 4 years.  Best boots i've ever worn for MY feet - blisters are a thing of the past (may have something to do with the socks too...) and MAN are they light!!  My sneakers are heavier - and they are a composite toe (CSA approved).  But the only problem with the "As long as..." theory, there still has to be some measure of conformity as well as value.  For example, OS - your Swat's are a little shorter than my Magnums, but your Swats will last a helluva lot longer than my Magnums.  If the CF decided to allow the purchase of boots at will, controls have to be put in place to ensure i'm not going through a pair of boots every 6 months.  I really believe this CAN be done if it were seriously addressed (lots of red tape there...) I was on the special orders desk in Clothing Stores in Gag'town and I had to ensure the nurses and dental assistants were getting the "proper" sneaker, not to mention I actually had to "inspect" an extremely questionable BTU claim...

 

[Yrys]

TLA as in Three-Letter Acronym

Yes. I like the TLA for TLA  ...

 

[Ecco]

But, the fact of the matter is that even though some of the footwear we do purchase is "made in the USA" ... we are buying it from Canadian Suppliers and they certainly aren't selling it at a zero profit margin; not if they want to stay in business. Business ... hmmm there's a fine word (compete or get out of business).

Canadian companies complain when the feds go "outside", but the fact is we only go "outside" when we can not get an appropriate and suitable item which is manufacturered here in good old Canada.

Can you name an example of a "nationally procured" land forces footwear that is not manufactured in Canada?  As far as I know, there is none.  The closest was the Altama-designed Desert Combat Boot, which we stopped procuring pre-2004 because of that specific reason.

There is absolutely zero difference between this "footwear allowance" proposal and that "annual BTU allowance" that female members already currently receive which goes towards purchasing bras at your friendly neighbourhood WalMart, Fredericks, Victoria's Secret Store ... bras that are, most often, manufactured outside of this nation, but sold in Canadian Stores and purchased by us women in those Canadian Stores. It may not be made here, but Canadian suppliers are still raking in the bucks.

Just like every set of boobs is different -- so is every set of feet. We need to get over this (set of) hump(s) already.

There is one difference:
Can you name a Canadian manufacturer of female undergarments?  As far as I know, there are none, which is the reason why allowance is allowed by PWGSC for the BTU.

 

[armyvern]

Can you name an example of a "nationally procured" land forces footwear that is not manufactured in Canada?  As far as I know, there is none.  The closest was the Altama-designed Desert Combat Boot, which we stopped procuring pre-2004 because of that specific reason.

There is one difference:
Can you name a Canadian manufacturer of female undergarments?  As far as I know, there are none, which is the reason why allowance is allowed by PWGSC for the BTU.

Mother of Gawd ...

Para 1: I wasn't talking about contracted boots --- I was talking about LPOd boots. WE Sup Techs purchase footwear for personnel who are so-entitled by reason of valid medical chit each and every day that, quite often, is footwear that is manufactured in the USA. No where in my post did I refer to issued and stocked footwear as being the "purchased footwear" that I was talking about -- rather issues & stocked footwear is "contracted footwear", NOT purchased (LPOd - if that makes it easier for you to understand) footwear.

The concern is that if we go from a "contracted" (ie stocked & issued footwear) to a footwear allowance which allows pers to purchase their own footwear -- that pers will NOT buy Canadian. That is bogus ... and that is the point of my post below.

Para two:
Phantom Industries
Snob Club
Cindy Ann Creations
Coquette International
Lieasured Lingerie Inc
Sherling
Third Floor Design
Coconut Grove
Christine Designs Ltd
Cozumel Fashion Inc
Montelle Intimates Inc
Creations Robo Inc
Donna Fashions Manufacturing
Elegant Brassiere Inc

Just to name a few --

oh and, of course, let us not forget this one ...

Canadelle Inc -- makers of Wonderbra

And your statement regarding why there is a BTU allowance is total fallacy. A lack of Canadian Manufacturer's has SFA to do with why we have the BTU. The BTU came into force exactly because NO standard pattern/design/make of bra could be found or was identified during the BTU Trials (of which I was a part) that could satisfy the needs/requirements or different anatomical features of boobs. Period. Each set is different and NO standard pattern or type would suffice. Now, what's the difference with feet!!?? They are the most important tool that an infanteer has to look after, closely followed by the shit he needs to carry using those well-looked after feet. There is NO difference between my differing needs from another female's needs with our bras ... or soldiers differing needs with their boots. None whatsoever.

Hmmm ... sounds just like feet -- and is exactly what I said in the other post.

 

[danchapps]

Vern why do people doubt you? I just don't understand this. Sigh.

 

[Ecco]

Local purchases are not "national procurement".  My point exactly.  Local purchases use retailers.  National Procurement works somewhat differently.  Sup techs can buy at retailers because they do small, specialized buys for specific purposes (med chits).  PWGSC will never allow you to buy 3 millions dollars worth of US made boots at a retailer.

Para 2:  The point is that no Canadian manufacturer could do the BTU in such a way that made sense.  CTS tried, but no Canadian manufacturer of female undergarments could or was interested in manufacturing the BTU.  It made no business sense.

 

[Nfld Sapper]

Trying to educate Vern there?

I think she would know how the supply system works, she our SME for that.

With 2 posts me thinks you are on the radar, tread carefully.

 

[armyvern]

Local purchases are not "national procurement".  My point exactly.  Local purchases use retailers.  National Procurement works somewhat differently.  Sup techs can buy at retailers because they do small, specialized buys for specific purposes (med chits).  PWGSC will never allow you to buy 3 millions dollars worth of US made boots at a retailer.

Para 2:  The point is that no Canadian manufacturer could do the BTU in such a way that made sense.  CTS tried, but no Canadian manufacturer of female undergarments could or was interested in manufacturing the BTU.  It made no business sense.

Understand this (I can't believe that they pay me at work for this!!)

We pay an allowance that covers bras for females at that rate each and every year ... and those bras are for the most part NOT made in Canada, but ARE purchased in Canadian stores and thus DO support the Canadian economy.

WHY can't this be done for boots an even more CRITICAL and ESSENTIAL tool for soldiers?? It is ALREADY done (and ALLOWED/APPROVED by TB & PWGSC) for bras ... why not boots??

And, NEWSFLASH for you (you obviously haven't noticed) that so far ... NO ONE Canadian Manufacturer can come up with a boot either!!

There is NO difference. None. Zilch. Zero. Nada. Nein.

 

[armyvern]

PWGSC will never allow you to buy 3 millions dollars worth of US made boots at a retailer.

Really?? I guess you've never heard of Belleville Boot Company?? I've shopped there while deployed and some of the folks on this forum benefitted by that particular mass buy. I could even post pics for you of the huge shipment coming in and being issued out to the Apollo II/Athena TAT/Athena Zero pers in the midst of our no so BAT.

 

[Ecco]

I am not trying to educate Vern on the supply system, but on the procurement process, something I am closely familiar with. 
I have to disagree on the comparison between BTU and GPB.

The difference is one of scale.  Local purchases (medical shits, mission-specific items, etc...) are small numbers (in terms of number of pairs of boots and in terms of money).  Those can be done a variety of ways, using local retailers (LPO by local Sup Tech, or in theater).  The intent is to deliver something small, specific and quickly.  The CF uses this process for some theater-specific requirements, like the Belleville-acquisition that you are referring to.  Typically, LPO are not life-cycle supported.  They will disappear from inventory when we stop to buy them.

On the contrary, national procurement buys fleet of boots, for example, about 200 000 pairs of Wet Weather Boots.  This cannot be done quickly, because it is a significant contract with a lot of money involved.  The government expects regional benefits from national procurement.  It's the law.  It's enforced on the CF by Industry Canada, by PWGSC, by the members of Parliement.  National procurement items are life-cycle supported.  The CF will build an inventory and try to prevent shortages (with limited success I must admit).

In your example, the BTU is a small scale procurement.  The numbers of BTU and their value is small.  It would not make sense to buy them in bulk.  It would not make sense to keep inventory of bras in local supply stores.  For example, there would be only a couple hundreds of a specific size of bra at the national level.  Although it is done at the national level, the regional benefits would be almost nil. 

The United States Army can offer different choices, but all of their footwear allowed in PX are form US manufacturers.  Last time I checked, in Bliss, there was some Danners, some Altamas, Converse etc...  all US companies. 

Don't get me wrong, I also believe that having a choice of footwear would be the best solution.  Footwear is of the utmost importance and there is a lot of personal preferences involved, because we have different feet.  I just know from experience that the BTU procurement cannot be compared to footwear procurement.