CAF Combat boots policy 2005-2018

[armyvern]

So only medical chits will be entertained? I have to waste the doc's time to get a chit for boots because bad sizing?

You mean, don't waste your own time because the doc will not give you a chit for sizing as that is not a medical problem.  Sizing is a Supply problem, but here's the problem:


"Sizing" is the issue - if the mondopoints don't fit, and that's the kicker, because they say that mondopoints run in many, many more size options (length, width etc) than COTs footwear (and they actually do - they just suck!).  They say, that if you fit into COTs that you can walk into the store and buy, then you fit into mondopoints. Period.  I don't say that.

It is the very rariety with the size 1, size 18 foot (or extremely small, but extremely wide feet etc etc) who can/will not be fitted out of stocked items - the far ends of the sizing spectrum.  They would get LPOd footwear as there are no stocked & issued boots in those rare cases.  All us in betweens - apparently fit into mondos.

Someone says so, again - not me.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Are there any ramifications for whoever is responsible for the CAF accepting these shitty new boots and letting them be mass produced?

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Are there any ramifications for whoever is responsible for the CAF accepting these shitty new boots and letting them be mass produced?

Thought you didn't do drugs? ;D

 

[dapaterson]

Are there any ramifications for whoever is responsible for the CAF accepting these shitty new boots and letting them be mass produced?

Would that be the units that refuse tasks to test equipment?  The branches and corps that refuse to post their top people into the projects to acquire equipment?

 

[ballz]

Would that be the units that refuse tasks to test equipment?  The branches and corps that refuse to post their top people into the projects to acquire equipment?

My current company spent an entire year (2013) answering to DLR. DLR practically owned the company over the course of 2x trials on the platform. The LAV 6.0 is still a jugf**k to this day, pretty much as unprepared for war as those boots that keep blowing at the seams in the office. The problems of our procurement goes well beyond not having enough people (or quality people) to test equipment.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Would that be the units that refuse tasks to test equipment?  The branches and corps that refuse to post their top people into the projects to acquire equipment?

If a unit refused out of laziness and not lack of relevance I would say for sure.

I know of a unit of infanteers which included basic and advanced reconnaissance patrolmen, basic and advance snipers, pathfinders etc.. who's contribution to this LOTB project was having 10 pairs of various boots placed on a table and then have members from said unit walk in the room, look at the boot and then rate them based on looks and looks only. Members were strictly forbidden from physically touching the boot.

Pretty sure whoever decided that was on drugs  ;D

 

[Nudibranch]

So only medical chits will be entertained? I have to waste the doc's time to get a chit for boots because bad sizing?

To add to the "sizing is not a med issue" - in any case you won't be wasting the doc's time, you'll be wasting (or not) the Physio's. They took the boot-chit complaints away from MOs because frankly MOs know nothing about boots (why in the world would they, boot-fitting is not something taught in med school), and would often just auto-scribble a chit on request.

The Physios are harsh mistresses&misters of boot chits, and will assess and trial any number of orthodics before you'd get a med boot chit out of them.

 

[ballz]

To add to the "sizing is not a med issue" - in any case you won't be wasting the doc's time, you'll be wasting (or not) the Physio's. They took the boot-chit complaints away from MOs because frankly MOs know nothing about boots (why in the world would they, boot-fitting is not something taught in med school), and would often just auto-scribble a chit on request.

The Physios are harsh mistresses&misters of boot chits, and will assess and trial any number of orthodics before you'd get a med boot chit out of them.

Hmmm... one might think it would be a better use of resources to just hand out med chits on demand and let people get boots they like... :facepalm:

 

[PuckChaser]

You mean, don't waste your own time because the doc will not give you a chit for sizing as that is not a medical problem.  Sizing is a Supply problem, but here's the problem:

"Sizing" is the issue - if the mondopoints don't fit, and that's the kicker, because they say that mondopoints run in many, many more size options (length, width etc) than COTs footwear (and they actually do - they just suck!).  They say, that if you fit into COTs that you can walk into the store and buy, then you fit into mondopoints. Period.  I don't say that.

It is the very rariety with the size 1, size 18 foot (or extremely small, but extremely wide feet etc etc) who can/will not be fitted out of stocked items - the far ends of the sizing spectrum.  They would get LPOd footwear as there are no stocked & issued boots in those rare cases.  All us in betweens - apparently fit into mondos.

Someone says so, again - not me.

I hear you, I don't think anyone here would accuse you of siding with the boot mafia, just giving us the info.

Unfortunately I think EITS described the problem, where all mondopoint sizes have the same heel cup size as forefoot width. So someone with feet like mine, where the heel is narrower than the forefoot, I get stuck with too tight on front, blisters in back, or vice versa.

Jay-Z said it best: 72 sizes and my feet ain't one.

 

[sidemount]

Are there any ramifications for whoever is responsible for the CAF accepting these shitty new boots and letting them be mass produced?

Promotion most likely....

 

[TCM621]

Are there any ramifications for whoever is responsible for the CAF accepting these shitty new boots and letting them be mass produced?

A promotion?

 

[Nudibranch]

Hmmm... one might think it would be a better use of resources to just hand out med chits on demand and let people get boots they like... :facepalm:

No. A better use of resources would be to quit medicalizing non-medical issues. Like boot chits. And workplace conflict. And beard chits (ok, pseudofolliculitis barbae does exist. But it mostly affects black men, and there's no legitimate medical reason half of Valcartier's running around with beard chits).

 

[PuckChaser]

Beard chits and shaved heads.

 

[BinRat55]

Oy vey.

Another side of the problem is when Clothing Stores across Canada start doing their own thing, making their own policies and treating direction differently than everyone else. I have a soldier who comes in from Shilo (completely hypothetical...) and says he's been getting COTS for years now. Chit? No sir. Why are you getting LPO boots then? Well I just told them that their boots didn't fit - I was getting blisters. So they sent me downtown. Can I get my new Swats please? I say he's not entitled to LPO boots here just because he says so. He becomes irate because "Gagetown doesn't know what they are doing".

When someone is treated a certain way on one base and another base differs from that, they become offensive. If we (Clothing Stores and Base Supply) stuck to policy and directives ACROSS the board, I believe it would be easier in the long run. My 2 cents.

As far as the LOTB / LPO boots are concerned - see above. Oy vey!

 

[armyvern]

To add to the "sizing is not a med issue" - in any case you won't be wasting the doc's time, you'll be wasting (or not) the Physio's. They took the boot-chit complaints away from MOs because frankly MOs know nothing about boots (why in the world would they, boot-fitting is not something taught in med school), and would often just auto-scribble a chit on request.

The Physios are harsh mistresses&misters of boot chits, and will assess and trial any number of orthodics before you'd get a med boot chit out of them.

Actually, they hit the Doc and/or Med A first through the MIR (ooopps .. CDU  :) to complain about their feet, but when they bring up size, the Doc/MedA may send them away right then and there. OR, they may send them on to Physio to waste Physio's time.

In order to get far enough to waste physio's time, you're hitting the med side first to waste theirs. 

 

[armyvern]

Hmmm... one might think it would be a better use of resources to just hand out med chits on demand and let people get boots they like... :facepalm:

Medical budget pays for medical footwear; good luck with that.

 

[armyvern]

I hear you, I don't think anyone here would accuse you of siding with the boot mafia, just giving us the info.

Wasn't actually hinting at me, personally, but rather "Sup techs" in general ... we always get the rants and blame for "the rules" that we have neither input into nor control over.

Jay-Z said it best: 72 sizes and my feet ain't one.

Speaking of the beotch of the boots and mondopoint - I totally agree.  I've had quite a few experiences fitting troops' feet and many cases like that you speak of.  Also quite a few where pers did not have nice arches on the tops of their feet.  The boots would fit perfectly toe to heel, but even yanking the laces as tight as they could go so that all eyelets were touching each other saw us still being able to "pinch an inch" of unfilled leather.  Imagine those feet after a nice day of humping ruck.

 

[armyvern]

No. A better use of resources would be to quit medicalizing non-medical issues. Like boot chits. And workplace conflict. And beard chits (ok, pseudofolliculitis barbae does exist. But it mostly affects black men, and there's no legitimate medical reason half of Valcartier's running around with beard chits).

Sizing isn't medicalized though and never has been.  Issues with special sizing have always been dealt with via the SAM and are a Supply problem.

Medical Issues with feet are a Medical Chit issue (fallen arches, requirement for mesh-sided due to skin condition, ortho footwear, ortho soles with lift etc)

Helmets On:  I saw the most epic beard out here in Edmonton yesterday ... at least a good 8 inches long on a uniformed gent with no hair on his head.


Much like sleeping bags:  If you are allergic to feathers, the medical side of the house allows via Chit for procurement of different sleeping bag (through clothing stores) due to your medical condition.  If you are 7' tall, then clothing stores will procure the extra-long bag without requiring Chit as it is a sizing issue.

 

[armyvern]

Oy vey.

Another side of the problem is when Clothing Stores across Canada start doing their own thing, making their own policies and treating direction differently than everyone else. I have a soldier who comes in from Shilo (completely hypothetical...) and says he's been getting COTS for years now. Chit? No sir. Why are you getting LPO boots then? Well I just told them that their boots didn't fit - I was getting blisters. So they sent me downtown. Can I get my new Swats please? I say he's not entitled to LPO boots here just because he says so. He becomes irate because "Gagetown doesn't know what they are doing".

...

And, due to locations like that ... we have the CANLANDGEN that needed to be cut re-inforcing the "rules".  Post a copy of it inside your door next to the uniform that I hung up there years ago (which probably is still there). 

BTW, that's a shitty sup tech in Shilo causing problems for everyone else but I'd also suspect he was wearing LPOd for so long because one his buddies worked there and was "looking after him".  There's a charge for that.

 

[BinRat55]

And, due to locations like that ... we have the CANLANDGEN that needed to be cut re-inforcing the "rules".  Post a copy of it inside your door next to the uniform that I hung up there years ago (which probably is still there). 

Lol!! Actually, it is! We have the CANLANDGEN posted, and I actually went a step further and posted the SAM references along with Sandra's email (her full name redacted of course) and the new, revised LOTB Implementation Order.

You know as well as I do - I can stamp it on people's foreheads and some will still not get it!