Canadian Foreign Interference (General)

[Good2Golf]

Not just the Courts and not just Canada. As was alluded to before, maybe not strongly enough, releasing the names publicly could also cause sensitive sources and methods to be compromised. Some of those "sources" are people who have provided help to us, either directly or through our allies. Having them "disappear" in their home country as a consequence of political gaming back home is not something I want our Parliamentarians engaged in.

Which is all true…most likely, however a Canadian shrug and an “oh well, what can you do?” doesn’t cut it, especially as Canadians prepare for the Federal vote.

At the very least, I expect the government to direct a ‘sensitivity analysis’ to determine the risk to intelligence sources that a range of disclosure options might/would incur and determine where the acceptable risk level is/would be, so that Canadian’s don’t end up voting for an MP who could be anything from a compromised candidate to a full-on colluding foreign agent.

 

[Jarnhamar]

I can assure you that in general, “kicking the can” isn’t a Canadian-only policy.

Of course. But we're really good at it and it seems to be an enshrined accepted political behavior.

Some of those "sources" are people who have provided help to us, either directly or through our allies. Having them "disappear" in their home country as a consequence of political gaming back home is not something I want our Parliamentarians engaged in.

They knew the risk but it's still shitty to risk their safety. We could always drop them a few million and set them up with a condo in Toronto.

Or, when we release names and someone demands to know how we got them we rip a page out of the LPC play book and say sorry parliamentary privilege and all that. Then throw them some money.

Edit: I'm ranting here and don't have anything worth while to add, sorry. Its just super disappointing the state we allowed our country to become. There always seems to be a reason not to hold people accountable and we just move on.

 

[JLB50]

Marc Garneau and Ken Dryden I would trust, but kindergarten politics were not for them

Garneau was treated quite shabbily by Trudeau. I’m surprised he remained in politics as long as he did.

 

[Haggis]

They knew the risk but it's still shitty to risk their safety. We could always drop them a few million and set them up with a condo in Toronto.

Or, when we release names and someone demands to know how we got them we rip a page out of the LPC play book and say sorry parliamentary privilege and all that. Then throw them some money.

Edit: I'm ranting here and don't have anything worth while to add, sorry. Its just super disappointing the state we allowed our country to become. There always seems to be a reason not to hold people accountable and we just move on.

I think you're missing the point. So, we release the name of Joey Smallmouth, CPC MP for Bass River. His PRC handlers go "hey, woah... how'd they figure that one out?" They go digging and find we turned one of theirs, even unwittingly. All the Parliamentary privilege in the world won't save that PRC national from Makarov round to the back of the head.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Instead of fretting over the hard part involving closely-held information about politicians, start with the easy part by disclosing loudly and widely the identities of all the Chinese state-owned or -aligned entities and where they are operating, all of their subsidiaries, and all of the Canadians openly involved in those entities' lobbying efforts. The US doesn't have a problem with this; why should we?

 

[Good2Golf]

I think you're missing the point. So, we release the name of Joey Smallmouth, CPC MP for Bass River. His PRC handlers go "hey, woah... how'd they figure that one out?" They go digging and find we turned one of theirs, even unwittingly. All the Parliamentary privilege in the world won't save that PRC national from Makarov round to the back of the head.

I don’t think he’s missing the point. I think Canadians are being incredibly naive as to the extent that the PRC is taking hybridized action to compromise Canada’s parliamentary institutions.

Would you rather we have Chinese agents (explicitly or in effect) voted into our next Parliament, or have Canada turn the light on inside the closet and see what foreign cockroaches scurry away?

I’m not being deliberately callous against sources who may be potentially compromised, but people have to realize the extent to which institutional compromise at home has already occurred and and what should be done to keep Canada from full compromise.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Compromising sources is always a risk when information is used. There's no point having sources if we're not going to use the information.

 

[Jarnhamar]

I think you're missing the point. So, we release the name of Joey Smallmouth, CPC MP for Bass River. His PRC handlers go "hey, woah... how'd they figure that one out?" They go digging and find we turned one of theirs, even unwittingly. All the Parliamentary privilege in the world won't save that PRC national from Makarov round to the back of the head.

I totally get it. I care more about fixing our system and stomping the ongoing interference than I do about a PRC Nationals life.

We shouldn't let our corrupted politicians walk away with "retiring to spend more time with family" because a citizen in another country might get hurt.

Hell our own politicians were ready to let Canadian citizens rot in a Chinese prison longer (increasingly putting their life at risk) because releasing them would make their political opponents look good. Maybe me not caring about that PRC national makes me just as bad but if Canada keeps heading down the path were on I foresee more and more of our own citizens getting hurt.

 

[Halifax Tar]

I totally get it. I care more about fixing our system and stomping the ongoing interference than I do about a PRC Nationals life.

We shouldn't let our corrupted politicians walk away with "retiring to spend more time with family" because a citizen in another country might get hurt.

Hell our own politicians were ready to let Canadian citizens rot in a Chinese prison longer (increasingly putting their life at risk) because releasing them would make their political opponents look good. Maybe me not caring about that PRC national makes me just as bad but if Canada keeps heading down the path were on I foresee more and more of our own citizens getting hurt.

You've said it better than I could.

Release the names.

 

[YZT580]

Which is all true…most likely, however a Canadian shrug and an “oh well, what can you do?” doesn’t cut it, especially as Canadians prepare for the Federal vote.

At the very least, I expect the government to direct a ‘sensitivity analysis’ to determine the risk to intelligence sources that a range of disclosure options might/would incur and determine where the acceptable risk level is/would be, so that Canadian’s don’t end up voting for an MP who could be anything from a compromised candidate to a full-on colluding foreign agent.

Is it not up to the party leader to sign each candidate's nomination papers? So ask a simple question of those whose names have been placed on the list: do you wish to proceed with your nomination because, if you do, you will have to go through a security vetting. If they say yes, do it. If they say no then they can come up with the reason why they have declined the nomination.

 

[YZT580]

To add further to my previous note. There is even a ready-made PR statement. Candidate X wants to ensure his prospective constituents that his loyalty to Canada has not been compromised in any way so he has requested a security vetting by CSIS

 

[Good2Golf]

Is it not up to the party leader to sign each candidate's nomination papers? So ask a simple question of those whose names have been placed on the list: do you wish to proceed with your nomination because, if you do, you will have to go through a security vetting. If they say yes, do it. If they say no then they can come up with the reason why they have declined the nomination.

Don’t know, likely not even the same between parties. Does anyone have any trust in Trudeau that he would even cause such a question to be asked of any Liberal candidate in the next election?? Some parties (LPC) even have gone as far as to ensure the leader’s power is absolute and can’t be challenged as it could be in the past version of Canada’s Westminster Parliamentary system.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

I think you're missing the point. So, we release the name of Joey Smallmouth, CPC MP for Bass River. His PRC handlers go "hey, woah... how'd they figure that one out?" They go digging and find we turned one of theirs, even unwittingly. All the Parliamentary privilege in the world won't save that PRC national from Makarov round to the back of the head.

Hey! Joey is one of the best MPs that Bass River ever elected!

 

[OldSolduer]

You've said it better than I could.

Release the names.

Study the Philby case - Burgess etc.

Also there is a book written by a Deputy Director of MI6 I think. Really good history of espionage within the establishment…
There may be more within the bureaucracy that are deeply involved….

 

[The Bread Guy]

... Does anyone have any trust in Trudeau that he would even cause such a question to be asked of any Liberal candidate in the next election?? ...

No, but to be fair to PMJT, I've yet to hear any political leader of any colour jersey say they like the idea of federal legislation restricting their practice of small-p politics. I stand to be corrected on this, though, given a recent 3-week gap in reading/keeping abreast.

Instead of fretting over the hard part involving closely-held information about politicians, start with the easy part by disclosing loudly and widely the identities of all the Chinese state-owned or -aligned entities and where they are operating, all of their subsidiaries, and all of the Canadians openly involved in those entities' lobbying efforts. The US doesn't have a problem with this; why should we?

That's part of the whole "transparency registry" thing out there, but that still needs work according to at least some ....

Far from being FARA – Canada’s Proposed Foreign Influence Transparency Registry Law Leaves the Details for Another Day

Canada's proposed foreign agent registry doesn't mirror the problematic aspects of FARA, but many details are left to future regulations and guidance.

mcmillan.ca

Canada’s proposed law to battle foreign interference is a good start but still needs work: Sarah Teich in the Hub | Macdonald-Laurier Institute

The federal bill aimed at countering the long arm of foreign interference and transnational repression in Canada is strong but not strong enough.Bill C-70, tabled May 6, proposes various amendments to the CSIS Act, the Security of Information Act, and the Criminal Code. It would also, if passed...

macdonaldlaurier.ca

Foreign influence registry could have ‘chilling effect,’ researchers warn MPs - National | Globalnews.ca

Canada's leading research universities delivered the warning to a House of Commons committee that began a clause-by-clause review of the Liberals' foreign interference bill Monday.

globalnews.ca

 

[Rudburg]

Globe and Mail has an interesting headline story today.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1848626471432298986

 

[The Bread Guy]

Globe and Mail has an interesting headline story today.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1848626471432298986

From the Washington Post from last week ....

Also archived here if previous link doesn't work.

 

[KevinB]

I totally get it. I care more about fixing our system and stomping the ongoing interference than I do about a PRC Nationals life.

Except a lot of that Intelligence isn’t Canadian, it is sourced by other nations and as such Canada cannot release it or endanger it without consent from the nation who provided it.

We shouldn't let our corrupted politicians walk away with "retiring to spend more time with family" because a citizen in another country might get hurt.

Again this isn’t solely a Canadian decision or issue.

Hell our own politicians were ready to let Canadian citizens rot in a Chinese prison longer (increasingly putting their life at risk) because releasing them would make their political opponents look good. Maybe me not caring about that PRC national makes me just as bad but if Canada keeps heading down the path we’re on I foresee more and more of our own citizens getting hurt.

Well maybe don’t go to China, Russia etc

At the end of the day while you may not care about a source, the source may have a lot more value than Canadian politicians.

Even if it was solely Canadian intelligence they generate the information, burning sources isn’t a great way to get more. Sometimes while it stinks you need to sit on some intelligence simply because there is a bigger picture.

On an unrelated topic - single vehicle crashes and heart attacks, solo drownings in a pool etc are a thing.

 

[Kirkhill]

And again I remind people:

Lord Palmerston​

1. We have no eternal allies, and we have no perpetual enemies. Our interests are eternal and perpetual, and those interests it is our duty to follow.
   speech, House of Commons, 1 March 1848

Ultimately every sovereign nation marches alone. Strong nations get to pick and choose the where and when of their alliances.

 

[Brad Sallows]

To rebleat a point: the government is having a hard time dealing with Chinese interference because a lot of Liberals were on point getting fiscally stuck into China starting three decades ago. We probably don't need allied help to figure out who and where.