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D E T-shirts for NCDs

Eye In The Sky

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I didn't think they ever produced or issued out CADPAT slip-ons with black thread for the navy, after the Air Force circus with the slip-ons.  I thought the navy with directly to the CAG (Canadian Average Green) w/black thread for name tapes and rank slip-ons.
 
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jollyjacktar

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That is what I was told at the tailor's week before last when I was topping up my slip-ons and asked for the Navy  CADPAT type. He did not say if they went out the door in any numbers or at all before being quashed, but you Can't get them or wear them now.
 

Ecco

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medicineman said:
I'd just be happy wearing CADPAT - however, as there is too much polyester in it to safely wear in an area where there is a possibility of fire in the people tube, I guess I don't have alot of choice. 

There is no polyester in Army CADPAT uniform.  It's a weave of 50% cotton, 50% nylon.  However, the general idea of your message is true:  The NCD have significant FR capability that caters to Navy-specific requirements.
 
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aesop081

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Ecco said:
  The NCD have significant FR capability

Until people wash them at home mixed with their regular clothes and until they dry them at home with a dryer sheet...........after that, not so much.
 

Klinkaroo

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CDN Aviator said:
Until people wash them at home mixed with their regular clothes and until they dry them at home with a dryer sheet...........after that, not so much.

Don't forget ironing the crease too  ;)
 

medicineman

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Ecco said:
There is no polyester in Army CADPAT uniform.  It's a weave of 50% cotton, 50% nylon.  However, the general idea of your message is true:  The NCD have significant FR capability that caters to Navy-specific requirements.

Nylon is no better - it also melts when lit up, and therefore sticks to skin, and then has to be scrubbed off, sometimes taking skin with it, etc ad nauseum.

MM
 

Klinkaroo

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medicineman said:
Nylon is no better - it also melts when lit up, and therefore sticks to skin, and then has to be scrubbed off, sometimes taking skin with it, etc ad nauseum.

MM

That is exactly what he said before, Cadpat is dangerous in an environment that has the possibility of having fire that is why we wear NCD's that are "Fire Resistant". There is no Nylon in the NCD's (well fairly sure but couldn't find reference on label), they are made with NOMEX fibers that are flame resistant.
 

Neill McKay

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Klinkaroo said:
Don't forget ironing the crease too  ;)

You can iron NCDs without affecting the fire retardancy.

CDN Aviator said:
Retardent.......NCDs will burn.

A PO on one of my courses described a lower-deck science experiment in which it was supposedly discovered that the DEU sweater was actually more fire retardant that the NCD jacket.
 

gwp

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Eye In The Sky said:
I didn't think they ever produced or issued out CADPAT slip-ons with black thread for the navy, after the Air Force circus with the slip-ons.  I thought the navy with directly to the CAG (Canadian Average Green) w/black thread for name tapes and rank slip-ons.

You are correct with regard to CADPAT slips with black thread.  What follows is the message referenced in the OP re NCD and T-shirts message.  There has been no change  (reversal) wrt sailors in CADPAT wearing sailor black CAG slippons.  Excuse the over capitalization ... the copy and paste did it.

To Canforgen
Bt
Unclas Canforgen 027-07 Cms 008-07
Sic Wan
Subj: Naval Dress Update - Naval Environmental Indicators - Cadpat
Bilingual Message/message Bilingue
1. For The Naval Element There Is An Existing Need To Preserve Environmental Identity When Authorized To Wear Cadpat/lwcc. To Achieve This Aim, The Introduction Of Distinctive Navy Identifiers, similar To Those Currently Being Worn By Air Force Personnel, Is Being Introduced
2. Approved Navy Identifiers For All Navy Deu Personnel Who Are Required To Wear Cadpat/lwcc Are As Follows:
A. Distinctive Rank Indicators (slip-ons). Black Thread On Canadian Average Green (cag) Background,
B. Distinctive Nametape. Black Thread On Cag Background And The Navy Insignia (anchor) Worn On The Left Of The Nametape, And
C. Black T-shirt. These Identifiers Will Complement The Current Navy Black Beret Approved For Wear With Capdat/lwcc
3. Distinct Navy Identifiers Are Approved For Wear With Cadpat/lwcc In Canada Dependent On The Operational Context Of The Unit - Ie. In Non-tactical Situations As Deemed By The Operational Commander. Authorization On Overseas Operations Will Be At The Discretion Of The Theatre Commander Based On The Operational Situation
4. Navy Identifiers Are Only Authorized For Wear With The Temperate Woodland (tw) Cadpat/lwcc And Shall Not Be Worn With Other Cadpat Designs (i.e. Arid)
5. The Acquisition Of Distinctive Ranks, Distinctive Nametape, And The Black T Shirt Is In Progress And Will Eventually Be Made Available To Authorized Personnel Through Existing Clothing Distribution Outlets. The Qty Of Nametapes, Rank Slip-ons And T-shirts To Be Allotted For Wear With Cadpat/lwcc Will Also Be Promulgated In Due Course
6. In The Interim, As An Optional Measure, Navy Deu Personnel Who So Wish, Are Authorized To Acquire And Wear, At No Cost To The Crown, A Crew Neck T-shirt Without Logos, Jet Black In Colour, 75 Percent Cotton (plus/minus 5 Percent) / 25 Percent Polyester (plus/minus 5 Percent)
7. Further Information On The General Availability Of The Aforementioned Cadpat/lwcc Dress Items Will Be Communicated As Soon As Possible.
 

gwp

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CDN Aviator said:
Until people wash them at home mixed with their regular clothes and until they dry them at home with a dryer sheet...........after that, not so much.
From the NOMEX Laundering Guide

"No llaundry procedures are known to remove the flame resistance of NOMEX"  (top right page I-5) - See also III-12 re use of anti-static sheets improving the "feel" of NOMEX items. 

http://www2.dupont.com/Personal_Protection/en_US/assets/downloads/nomex/h71603launderingguidefornomexaramidfiber.pdf

And from their Thermal Bulliten

"the flame resistant properties of NOMEX fabric come from the inherently FR fibers and cannot be washed out or worn away.

http://www2.dupont.com/Personal_Protection/en_US/assets/downloads/protera/K16877ThermalBulletin.pdf
 
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aesop081

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gwp said:
From the NOMEX Laundering Guide

"No llaundry procedures are known to remove the flame resistance of NOMEX"  (top right page I-5)

http://www2.dupont.com/Personal_Protection/en_US/assets/downloads/nomex/h71603launderingguidefornomexaramidfiber.pdf

I will take what my ALSE lectures and what CFSSAT had to say about that over what the company says thanks.

 

medicineman

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Well, went to work dressed like a dork today - you got it, my NCD's, complete with green beret, CADPAT rank insignia and green T-shirt.  Gotta get used to it, since NETP starts Monday.  There is something just so wrong about how that all looks...but hey, it's the responsibility of someone in the Puzzle Palace, not mine.  On the bright side, I'm not the only one gonna look weird on Monday - the other PA and one of our docs is also on course with me  ;D.

Wish me luck.

MM
 

dimsum

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A tad off-topic, but in the general realm of "why wearing clothes that burn is bad":

If CADPAT isn't fire-retardant, then why do tank/LAV crews wear it?  It's also a metal box that burns easily (with tons of flammable stuff)  ???
 

Klinkaroo

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Dimsum said:
A tad off-topic, but in the general realm of "why wearing clothes that burn is bad":

If CADPAT isn't fire-retardant, then why do tank/LAV crews wear it?  It's also a metal box that burns easily (with tons of flammable stuff)   ???

I'll try this one but feel free to correct me.

Possibly because tank lav crews are able to "escape" (I know you can argue me and all that but still you can run from the vehicule). On a ship if a fire erupts, the ships crew become the fire fighting crews and have to stay with the fire.

That's my best guess hopefully I'm close.
 

Eye In The Sky

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Klinkaroo said:
I'll try this one but feel free to correct me.

Possibly because tank lav crews are able to "escape" (I know you can argue me and all that but still you can run from the vehicule). On a ship if a fire erupts, the ships crew become the fire fighting crews and have to stay with the fire.

That's my best guess hopefully I'm close.

So...what if said LAV is doing 80 km/h on a road move from PV to the K lines?  Everyone just bails out??

I'll stop at the one example where the crew just can't 'escape'.  Life isn't perfect in a AFV crew either.   ;)
 

Klinkaroo

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Well my argument was alot less of the fact that the crew may escape it was more the fact that they don't become fire fighting attack teams... but I tottaly agree if your driving at high speeds or rolled over or something the things aren't that easy to get out of...
 

trigger324

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gwp said:
...until black tee shirts are issued by the cf supply system.



I know I'm digging this up from the past, but have said black tee shirts been issued yet?  I see people wearing them but I've heard nothing more about it, like it might be just any old black shirt that they own under their NCD shirt.
 

Ex-Dragoon

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trigger324 said:
I know I'm digging this up from the past, but have said black tee shirts been issued yet?  I see people wearing them but I've heard nothing more about it, like it might be just any old black shirt that they own under their NCD shirt.

They have....we got them through the Storemen onboard ship.
 
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