Divining the right role, capabilities, structure, and Regimental System for Canada's Army Reserves

[daftandbarmy]

In other words, propose to me how you would make the Reserves function better, the only constraint being you get no more money than you are receiving now.

Give the reserves a mission (apart for the wishy washy temp agency like 'recruit, train, retain').

Heck, while you're at it give the Regs a mission too.

Then, like any good fighting patrol, work your organizational structure and resourcing back from the desired end state.

 

[Remius]

In a lot of cases some of the units act like a bunch of re-enactors.  If parading around in fancy clothes is a recruitment tool than it is a terrible one.  Want to get young guys interested in the Reserves?  Show them videos of guys kicking in doors, throwing grenades and generally kicking butts and taking names.  The USMC does this and they have the most success of all the services in the US military in terms of recruitment.

The marines also show up to almost every recruiting event in full dress, colour guards at sporting events, their silent drill team, bands etc.  heck they had a marine fight a dragon with a sword in one video.  They are successful because they know the value of those things as recruiting tools.  The NAtional Sentry Program has done more for recruiting and connecting with Canadians than any door kicking video can (not everyone wants to join the infantry).

 

[dapaterson]

The NAtional Sentry Program has done more for recruiting and connecting with Canadians than any door kicking video can (not everyone wants to join the infantry).

Until Oct 22, few Canadians had heard of or cared about the NSP.  Its relevance is marginal, its cost is not.  Much like the Ceremonial Guard, Garde en Rouge, Nova Scotia Tattoo and related activities, it's the sort of function that the local tourism department should be paying for, not the military.

Word of mouth is one of the more effective recruiting tools for the Reserves; conduct challenging and interesting training and you'll both retain the soliders you have, and attract their peers and friends.  Do the impossible (which the Army seems to do on a regular basis) and make soldier skills boring, and soldiers will vote with their feet - and let their friends and peers know about it.

 

[George Wallace]

I would also like to see the Reserves split off from the Regular Army.  I think the Canadian Army should have two divisions, a Regular one and a Reserve one.  .

I am not clear as to what you are proposing here, as I am under the impression that this is what we already have.

One thing to add, we still need to reduce the number of units we have.  We have too many units parading 30 guys a night when they are supposed to be at company strength.  These units need to be amalgamated to again reduce the overhead.  If a town Reserve unit only forms a platoon, so be it.

A sensible suggestion, and one that can be done along the lines of what the UK forces have done.  The current units would no longer be Regiments, but Coys of an amalgamated unit, and able to maintain their historical lineages.  That would also help to reduce the number of officers and CWO's that you are suggesting.  Should "Total War" break out, they could revert back to Regimental status as recruiting expands their ranks; as they would have the nucleus for do so.

Yep, I think these are good ideas as well.  The only problem with most Class B is that if we dropped a lot of them we wouldn't be able to re-roll them into the Reserve world because the NDA wouldn't allow it.  Class B is a grey area that the Regular Force uses to augment itself due to staffing shortfalls, which I don't really understand because we have more than enough underemployed officers but I digress.  In the government's eyes, if you work as a full time soldier, you should be a full time soldier i.e. Regular Force. 

I'd like to see us get more mileage out of the full time cadre we do send to Reserve units.  Getting sent as RSS to a Reserve unit is often considered a crap posting by most Reg guys, it really shouldn't be.

Your points of Class B being used by the Reg Force to backfill positions is taken.  At the same time, Class B at the Reserve units should not be lumped in with that general philosophy.  My former unit, had five of us on Class B running the daily OPs O, OPs WO, Trg NCO, QM and Recruiting as there were no RSS to fill positions within our unit and several others.  In cases like this, especially if filled by former Reg Force pers, the Reserve unit benefits.  RSS positions filled by pers who are there only for a 'vacation' do more harm than good, both to the Reserve unit itself and the Reg Force pers filling the position.

Many years ago ('70's timeframe) it was the desire that the RSS and Reg Force would train the Reserves to a standard that the Reserves could train themselves.  The beginings of the idea of "Train the Trainer".  Where that ball was dropped, I don't know.  If the Reserves had become self sufficient, the RSS positions would have disappeared.

This is the single biggest thing holding back the Reserves IMO.  Without legislation, you're not going to be able to keep the best and the brightest in the Service long enough to really get any benefit from them.  I've met a lot of really switched on Reservist Officers and Senior NCOs who have big jobs in the Private Sector but end up leaving because they aren't protected.

If we want the Reserves to provide value for money, they need job protection.

That legislation has to be beefed up to provide better job protection. 

These are the people with so many qualifications and professional experiences that is unavailable within the Regular Force that can provide an extra mindset to problem solving and mission success.  An asset that is wasted when their Reserve service is hampered by lack of job protection.

 

[blackberet17]

That legislation has to be beefed up to provide better job protection. 

These are the people with so many qualifications and professional experiences that is unavailable within the Regular Force that can provide an extra mindset to problem solving and mission success.  An asset that is wasted when their Reserve service is hampered by lack of job protection.

One problem I see is labour laws are a provincial matter. I don't know the exact numbers, but is it not IVO of half of the provinces have legislation protecting employment?

 

[George Wallace]

One problem I see is labour laws are a provincial matter. I don't know the exact numbers, but is it not IVO of half of the provinces have legislation protecting employment?

True, and even then employers don't always 'respect' those laws.  There has to be Federal input into ensuring that there is job protection.  It exists for Federal employees, who may deploy as Reservists, but does not cover non-Federal employees.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Word of mouth is one of the more effective recruiting tools for the Reserves; conduct challenging and interesting training and you'll both retain the soliders you have, and attract their peers and friends.  Do the impossible (which the Army seems to do on a regular basis) and make soldier skills boring, and soldiers will vote with their feet - and let their friends and peers know about it.

Give the man a ceeeegar!  :nod:

 

[Haggis]

One problem I see is labour laws are a provincial matter. I don't know the exact numbers, but is it not IVO of half of the provinces have legislation protecting employment?

There has to be Federal input into ensuring that there is job protection.  It exists for Federal employees, who may deploy as Reservists, but does not cover non-Federal employees.

Most provinces have some type of job protection legislation (JPL).  However, there is no harmonization between them or with the federal legislation.  For example, take two Reservists who work for the same national private sector employer in different provinces.  They both want to go on their DP3B.  One is eligible under his provincial JPL but the other is not.

 

[MilEME09]

Most provinces have some type of job protection legislation (JPL).  However, there is no harmonization between them or with the federal legislation.  For example, take two Reservists who work for the same national private sector employer in different provinces.  They both want to go on their DP3B.  One is eligible under his provincial JPL but the other is not.

For example in alberta we get 20 days we can put towards training under reservist leave. I am just ending my 10 week DP2.2, I simply had to leave my job to go on course. My employer wouldn't give time off pass my two weeks vacation or the 20 days. I can't do something like this again to start back at square one, which leaves me in the bad spot many have been in of either never going on course again, waiting till im out of work, or just leaving the CF.

 

[daftandbarmy]

For example in alberta we get 20 days we can put towards training under reservist leave. I am just ending my 10 week DP2.2, I simply had to leave my job to go on course. My employer wouldn't give time off pass my two weeks vacation or the 20 days. I can't do something like this again to start back at square one, which leaves me in the bad spot many have been in of either never going on course again, waiting till im out of work, or just leaving the CF.

I have seen this happen too many times, and it's ridiculous.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Drew - Here's your answer.

Drums beating, Flags flying, Bayonets fixed has value - and it is a useful employment of the part time soldier.

You beating the bushes at Gagetown does not bring in recruits.  Heels hitting pavement in downtown wherever generates knowledge if not interest.  And the more bodies on parade the more the locals will think there might be something to this mob that has attracted their interest.

It cannot be the only reason for being - otherwise you are re-enactors like the Fort Henry Guard.  But it is not without value.

As to the points about an organized Reserve Division and a defined budget, I have to agree.  With respect to the parade strength, I also agree that that is a problem. 

I continue to suggest that the US Reserve Contract system has much to commend it.  I can't think of any reason why the number of parade days should be discretional.

If there is a role for a pure volunteer force then the unpaid Danish Homeguard model might be worth looking at, in addition to a properly funded US model Reserve.

I brought the first Bison into downtown Windsor on a Saturday morning. Phone calls to the Regiment, asking how to join, started before I even got to the armouries.

Same thing happened to me. When the local Regiment used to drive down my street in Shermans, I couldn't wait til I became legal age to join. Literally. I lied about my age and joined the military at 15.

Getting out and showing the flag really helps recruiting. Calls spike after Remembrance Day, Freedom of the City, etc. Local Reserve units need to be highly visible in their communities.

They also require a substantial budget increase in order to pay for the troops to bring them to proper strength. Limiting units to 8 new recruits per half year is ludicrous in the extreme and only sets them up for failure to perpetuate the myth of the incapable Reserve force.

 

[MilEME09]

I brought the first Bison into downtown Windsor on a Saturday morning. Phone calls to the Regiment, asking how to join, started before I even got to the armouries.

Same thing happened to me. When the local Regiment used to drive down my street in Shermans, I couldn't wait til I became legal age to join. Literally. I lied about my age and joined the military at 15.

Getting out and showing the flag really helps recruiting. Calls spike after Remembrance Day, Freedom of the City, etc. Local Reserve units need to be highly visible in their communities.

They also require a substantial budget increase in order to pay for the troops to bring them to proper strength. Limiting units to 8 new recruits per half year is ludicrous in the extreme and only sets them up for failure to perpetuate the myth of the incapable Reserve force.

My unit runs an open house every year which causes a spike in recruiting, this past year we had 35 some odd people start filling out recruiting packages. No numbers for awhile though how many actually make it in due to how long the process takes. I have brought it up before many times at my unit that more things inside the city need to be done to have visibility. Calgary is a big city, with a big potential recruiting pool tapping that pool should be part of the responsibility of the reserve units.

 

[George Wallace]

I brought the first Bison into downtown Windsor on a Saturday morning. Phone calls to the Regiment, asking how to join, started before I even got to the armouries.

Same thing happened to me. When the local Regiment used to drive down my street in Shermans, I couldn't wait til I became legal age to join. Literally. I lied about my age and joined the military at 15.

Getting out and showing the flag really helps recruiting. Calls spike after Remembrance Day, Freedom of the City, etc. Local Reserve units need to be highly visible in their communities.

They also require a substantial budget increase in order to pay for the troops to bring them to proper strength. Limiting units to 8 new recruits per half year is ludicrous in the extreme and only sets them up for failure to perpetuate the myth of the incapable Reserve force.

:goodpost:

 

[George Wallace]

They also require a substantial budget increase in order to pay for the troops to bring them to proper strength. Limiting units to 8 new recruits per half year is ludicrous in the extreme and only sets them up for failure to perpetuate the myth of the incapable Reserve force.

That is an important point.  The Reserves are not the Regular Force when it comes to Recruiting.  The Regular Force is offering full-time employment and a wide range of Trades.  The Reserves are more restricted in what they can offer Trade wise and employment wise.  They, unlike the Regs, need to recruit in large numbers in order to maintain their numbers.  As Reservists are for the most part young students and older 'Professionals', their commitment to the unit is limited on several fronts.  The young students will parade with the unit while they go to school and are free for summer employment.  Once they graduate, many find employment in other locations of the country and leave, or they join the Regular Force.  Once they become 'Professional' their commitment will be restricted times that they can be excused from their jobs by their employer or their private enterprise, if self-employed. 

In my experience, in a small unit (which has since been authorised to grow from Platoon to Company strength) we  had no problems maintaining our strength of just over 25, by annually recruiting 15.  For three years while in the process of expanding, with recruiting 15 pers/year, the trend looked like this: Recruit 15 annually and Trades qualify them, on completion of Trades Trg, half would CT to Reg Force, one or two would transfer to another city or Release, the unit would also lose 3 to 5 other long serving members to Release or NES; in the end leaving the unit just able to roughly maintain its current strength.  When the SIP restricted the unit to recruiting only 3 to 5 annually, and normal attrition, the unit strength fell drastically, seriously affecting the attempts to enlarge the unit to the new authorized strength (NES, Transfers and Releases still continued).  The SIP does not take into consideration the high turn over of pers in the Reserves.

 

[daftandbarmy]

My unit runs an open house every year which causes a spike in recruiting, this past year we had 35 some odd people start filling out recruiting packages. No numbers for awhile though how many actually make it in due to how long the process takes. I have brought it up before many times at my unit that more things inside the city need to be done to have visibility. Calgary is a big city, with a big potential recruiting pool tapping that pool should be part of the responsibility of the reserve units.

We have stopped doing open houses because the 'system' can't respond to the influx they generate and just creates more people who are pi**ed off with the CF.

 

[Haggis]

The SIP does not take into consideration the high turn over of pers in the Reserves.

The SIP also gives no credit when members CT to the Regular Force because a CT is not, technically, "attrition".

 

[GR66]

Previously in the thread there were discussions about the idea of a volunteer model for the Militia which obviously has some significant issues, but what about a mixed paid/volunteer model?  New recruits would start parading, doing their basic in-unit training and going on exercises on as volunteers.  A per diem rate of pay would kick in if they go away on course, go on exercises lasting longer that a weekend, or are called up for duty in an emergency. 

Once a member completes their trades training and now has value to the Reg Force as a potential augmentee (and have the potential to advance in rank to a leadership role) then the normal reserve pay would kick in. 

I have zero personal experience with the Militia so this is more of a "what if" for the sake of discussion.  There seem to be lots of discussions about how long it takes to get on a trades course, especially if your work schedule is restrictive but it also sounds like keen recruits with a flexible schedule could pass through the "volunteer" phase of their service pretty quickly if they want to.  For others they may not really have a great desire to move up the ranks beyond being a "militiaman" and a longer-term volunteer service might be enough as long as training can be kept interesting.

Would something like this allow the Militia to keep the level of pay similar to what it is now while also expanding the size of units by opening up recruiting of volunteer members?  I'm sure there would be cost increases in both equipment and training costs to support the larger numbers, but would having larger units not also benefit the paid members (by providing more leadership opportunities, more elaborate training possibilities, etc.?).

 

[Kirkhill]

My unit runs an open house every year which causes a spike in recruiting, this past year we had 35 some odd people start filling out recruiting packages. No numbers for awhile though how many actually make it in due to how long the process takes. I have brought it up before many times at my unit that more things inside the city need to be done to have visibility. Calgary is a big city, with a big potential recruiting pool tapping that pool should be part of the responsibility of the reserve units.

Long ago and far away (1980s) we recruited a Platoon into the Calgary Highlanders every September and the KOCR that shared the same armouries got a similar influx.  Both units, together with th Svc Bn,  the MPs, the Comm Squad, the Fd Ambulance managed to remain viable. 

For St Julien's Day we (the Highlanders) could turn out 100 - 150 on parade.  We had a platoon of high performers (rappel, airborne, pioneer, all infantry weapons qualified, sigs) and managed to retain 10 to 25% of the September intake through the first year and get them loaded on summer courses. 

Weekend exercises were well attended when interesting  (40 to Wainwright by Chinook for ranges, similar numbers for Suffield) and not so well when not interesting (pitching tents for a Boy Scout Jamboree).

Weeknights were fine for first year recruits (class work and parade work) but generally a waste of time for everybody else unless they were involved in training the recruits or preparing exercises or general administration.

 

[dapaterson]

The SIP also gives no credit when members CT to the Regular Force because a CT is not, technically, "attrition".

Wrong.

The RAMORs take a snapshot of the Army Reserve, then compare trained strength and BTL for each occupation in the Army Reserve to targets, while staying within strength targets.  SIP is calculated based on those calculations.  So, a CT in 2015 will show in SIP for 2016.

That said, Divs and Bdes may not allocate those positions to the units that lost them, for any number of reasons.

But to say CTs don't result in SIP is factually incorrect.

 

[Haggis]

Wrong.

The RAMORs take a snapshot of the Army Reserve, then compare trained strength and BTL for each occupation in the Army Reserve to targets, while staying within strength targets.  SIP is calculated based on those calculations.  So, a CT in 2015 will show in SIP for 2016.

That said, Divs and Bdes may not allocate those positions to the units that lost them, for any number of reasons.

But to say CTs don't result in SIP is factually incorrect.

Then I sit corrected, factually.  Notwithstanding, many units don't usually get the number of SIP required to meet their attrition, in whatever form, which results in negative growth.  And those who do run up against a recruiting system that is unable to handle the number of files required to fill that SIP resulting, again, in negative growth.