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Fitness for Operational Requirements of CAF Employment ( FORCE )

Nfld Sapper

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Wonder if it has more to do with those fancy sandbags they are using?
 

AmmoTech90

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So far they have three different weights for three different floor types.  Smoother floor, more weight.  It is not a random decision to add more weight.
 

Nfld Sapper

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Care to share what the weights are or did I miss them in this thread?
 

Sub_Guy

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AmmoTech90 said:
So far they have three different weights for three different floor types.  Smoother floor, more weight.  It is not a random decision to add more weight.

That is not the impression I got from several different individuals in Comox.
One of which was a surprised WCWO, the others were PSP staff.

Sandbag Drag: Carry one 20 kg sandbag while pulling four 20 kg sandbags on the ground (100 kg total) over 20 m without stopping.

That was the standard, nothing mentioned about the floors on the website.


 

Eye In The Sky

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Halifax Tar said:
Enforce mandatory daily unit PT as a CF standard as well.  No reason a ships company cannot fall in at 0730 and leave the duty watch behind to go do some circuit training or what have you.  Units should rely on BFTA/AFTA, PLQ/JLC and PSP qualified folks to organize and run the training. 

Just my 2 cents flame away as you see fit

It is going to be a change in mindset, for some.  Example, one time several years ago, I was asked why I wanted to and thought I needed to do PT on a regular basis "because I had already passed my PT test for that year".  It was thought by my supervisor that PT was a waste of time if the test wasn't for X amount of months. 

I'll add, make units and supervisors at all levels follow the current direction in the DAOD and CDS Guidance to CO's on PT. 
 

The Bread Guy

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Sun Media on the REAL agenda behind the new fitness testing regime, attributed to an unidentified (if the headline is to be believed) "Ex-Canadian Forces doc" ....
Not all members of the Canadian Forces are convinced a new fitness test is just about trimming waistlines.

Some believe the exponentially more rigorous test is a misnomer for a forced reduction plan - and not just because its timing coincides with budget cuts to the department.

With budget cuts to the National Defence at 13% this year and overseas operations winding down, one retired military physician believes the fitness test offers the Canadian Forces a way to reduce its numbers and achieve savings - as members dismissed for inadequate fitness don't receive severance or bonus packages.

Speaking on the condition of anonymity, a retired Canadian Forces member also questioned the decision to apply the test equally to all men and women regardless of age, wondering how the military can increase the number of women in the forces while prescribing a test that is measurably more challenging for women and older men.

"This is a much cheaper way to cut down the military while saving money by not offering any money for early release," the former member said. "This is a concerted effort to cut older and female soldiers."

Defence Minister Peter MacKay denied those claims. Asked whether the fitness test was an attempt to reduce numbers, he said: "Absolutely not" ....
::)
 

AmmoTech90

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Dolphin_Hunter said:
That is not the impression I got from several different individuals in Comox.
One of which was a surprised WCWO, the others were PSP staff.

Sandbag Drag: Carry one 20 kg sandbag while pulling four 20 kg sandbags on the ground (100 kg total) over 20 m without stopping.

That was the standard, nothing mentioned about the floors on the website.

That was from the one of the developers of the test.  The baseline weight for the casualty drag is 86kg, but because sandbags are easier to drag (no boot heels digging in, less actual weight has to be lifted to you chest, you don't have to put the sandbags into the back of a truck at the end of the drag, etc) the weight is increased to reflect the same amount of effort required to complete the task.
 

Halifax Tar

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Eye In The Sky said:
It is going to be a change in mindset, for some.  Example, one time several years ago, I was asked why I wanted to and thought I needed to do PT on a regular basis "because I had already passed my PT test for that year".  It was thought by my supervisor that PT was a waste of time if the test wasn't for X amount of months. 

I'll add, make units and supervisors at all levels follow the current direction in the DAOD and CDS Guidance to CO's on PT.

It would a monunmental change of mindset for some, not just in the RCN but in many different units and commads in the the CF I suspect. 

 

Dirt Digger

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I've seen a few comments regarding the use of operational boots while performing the new test. However, I'll go out on a limb and assume that for a lot of personnel out there, the testing is still going to be performed in the local base gym. 

Considering that the PSPs lose their nut when you wear "outside runners" on their pristine gym floor, I would certainly look forward to watching the aneurisms suffered when a pair of combat boots leaves a big black streak at the 20m pivot point.

Operational concerns will never trump non-marking soles!  ;D
 

Smirnoff123

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http://www.cbc.ca/player/News/Politics/ID/2340185134/

I couldnt watch it on my phone, but here is a video of the CDS and MND doing the test.
 

Sub_Guy

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AmmoTech90 said:
That was from the one of the developers of the test.  The baseline weight for the casualty drag is 86kg, but because sandbags are easier to drag (no boot heels digging in, less actual weight has to be lifted to you chest, you don't have to put the sandbags into the back of a truck at the end of the drag, etc) the weight is increased to reflect the same amount of effort required to complete the task.

I get why the weight is added, and I assume they took into account less friction between the running shoe and the slick floor, not to mention that over time the floor becomes worn and less slick. 

I also believe that the added weight requirements should be annotated on the website explaining the test.

 

buzgo

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The researchers from PSP Human Performance R&D were in Kingston doing friction testing on various floor surfaces. So based on that testing, the number of sandbags will vary depending on the floor surface. Obviously a field house pebbled rubber floor has a different coefficient of friction than a glossy wood floor or a concrete armoury floor.

 

blacktriangle

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If there's going to be differing drag weights depending where you do the drag, I think the thing will be a waste. I was actually starting to think we had finally got something going the right way until I read the last few pages of this thread.

What a joke, as usual.
 

buzgo

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Its not a huge difference, just to compensate for different floor surfaces. Not a big deal.

Don't slam the protocol until you try it...

More info, I don't think I've seen it posted yet:

https://www.cfpsa.com/en/AboutUs/PSP/DFIT/Fitness/FORCEprogram/Pages/default.aspx
 

stretch

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It's been years now that I have personally been saying the CF needs to implement a fitness test that involves a single standard and external loads.

you can find more info on it https://www.cfpsa.com/en/AboutUs/PSP/DFIT/Fitness/FORCEprogram/Pages/About-the-FORCE-Program.aspx there

The test includes:

Sandbag Lift:
​30 consecutive lifts of a 20 kg sandbag to a height above 91.5 cm, alternating between left and right sandbags separated by 1.25 m. 3 minutes 30 second's

Intermittent Loaded Shuttles:
Using the 20 m lines, complete ten shuttles (1 shuttle = 20 m there, 20 m back), alternating between a loaded
shuttle with a 20 kg sandbag and an unloaded shuttle, for a total of 400 m. ​5 minutes 21 seconds

​20 metre Rushes:
Starting from prone, complete two shuttle sprints (1 shuttle = 20 m there, 20 m back) dropping to a prone position every 10m, for a total of 80 m. ​51 seconds

Sandbag Drag:
Carry one 20 kg sandbag and pull four on the floor over 20 m without stopping.  Completed without stopping

I can only see this helping the Forces to identify those who unfit for operational tasks.

What do you guys think?
Is one standard a good idea?
Was the CF Express Test good enough?
 

Nfld Sapper

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stretch said:
It's been years now that I have personally been saying the CF needs to implement a fitness test that involves a single standard and external loads.

you can find more info on it https://www.cfpsa.com/en/AboutUs/PSP/DFIT/Fitness/FORCEprogram/Pages/About-the-FORCE-Program.aspx there

The test includes:

Sandbag Lift:
​30 consecutive lifts of a 20 kg sandbag to a height above 91.5 cm, alternating between left and right sandbags separated by 1.25 m. 3 minutes 30 second's

Intermittent Loaded Shuttles:
Using the 20 m lines, complete ten shuttles (1 shuttle = 20 m there, 20 m back), alternating between a loaded
shuttle with a 20 kg sandbag and an unloaded shuttle, for a total of 400 m. ​5 minutes 21 seconds

​20 metre Rushes:
Starting from prone, complete two shuttle sprints (1 shuttle = 20 m there, 20 m back) dropping to a prone position every 10m, for a total of 80 m. ​51 seconds

Sandbag Drag:
Carry one 20 kg sandbag and pull four on the floor over 20 m without stopping.  Completed without stopping

I can only see this helping the Forces to identify those who unfit for operational tasks.

What do you guys think?
Is one standard a good idea?
Was the CF Express Test good enough?

WelcomeToLastWeek.jpg
 

Jarnhamar

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We should do a study to see how many CF98s have been submitted thanks to the BFTs firemans carry.
 

stretch

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ObedientiaZelum said:
We should do a study to see how many CF98s have been submitted thanks to the BFTs firemans carry.

Or mysterious medical issues leading up to the tests.
 
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