Future Armour

[Retired AF Guy]

Interesting this.

The article describes it as a replacement for the CVR(T) but I'm not sure if some of these are in use as IFVs with the two mech battalions in the Latvian mechanized infantry brigade. With two batches of 42 it seems that this is probably where the ASCODs will go.

This immediately raises two points of interest for me:

First is that the Latvian's, who know their own country and defence needs the best, chose to go with tracks over the 8 wheeled stuff we use. There's no better bias than confirmation bias - and yes I have that in spades over tracks;

The second is the speed of contract to first vehicle. It's brilliant and the fact that it's a GDLS system (are you listening CA?) is excellent. It looks like it might be a viable - and locally produceable - product alternative over the CV 90 for Canada. Both of those systems fit in better with our Swedish/Danish (CV90) and Spanish (ASCOD Pizzaro), and now Latvian, allies.

On the other hand, next-door neighbour Lithuania is acquiring 900+ Patria 6x6 wheeled APCs. The Patria is also in service with Sweden, Finland, Latvia, Denmark, Germany and possibly the UK.

FW-MAG Future Warfare Magazine - Lithuania announces acquisition plan for 936 PATRIA 6x6

Lithuania announces acquisition plan for 936 PATRIA 6x6

www.fw-mag.com

 

[Kirkhill]

Interesting this.

The article describes it as a replacement for the CVR(T) but I'm not sure if some of these are in use as IFVs with the two mech battalions in the Latvian mechanized infantry brigade. With two batches of 42 it seems that this is probably where the ASCODs will go.

This immediately raises two points of interest for me:

First is that the Latvian's, who know their own country and defence needs the best, chose to go with tracks over the 8 wheeled stuff we use. There's no better bias than confirmation bias - and yes I have that in spades over tracks;

The second is the speed of contract to first vehicle. It's brilliant and the fact that it's a GDLS system (are you listening CA?) is excellent. It looks like it might be a viable - and locally produceable - product alternative over the CV 90 for Canada. Both of those systems fit in better with our Swedish/Danish (CV90) and Spanish (ASCOD Pizzaro), and now Latvian, allies.

Latvia - 250 km by 450 km - 64,000 km2
Hunter road speed of 70 kmh
3.5 hrs North South
6.5 hrs East West

Latvia buying Patria CAVS 6x6 (>200 WAPC and 59 WC2 Vehicles)

Latvia orders more Patria 6x6 vehicles | Shephard

The first Latvian-made Common Armoured Vehicle System (CAVS) 6x6 armoured personnel carrier was delivered to the Latvian National Armed Forces (NAF) in August, and more than 200 vehicles are expected to be delivered by 2029.

www.shephardmedia.com

....

Lithuania buying Patria CAVS 6x6 (900 or so)

Also buying 100 CV90

Lithuania Approves Acquisition of 100 CV90 Infantry Fighting Vehicles

Lithuania’s State Defence Council has approved the acquisition of 100 CV90 MkIV infantry fighting vehicles.

thedefensepost.com

...

Wheels (amphibious wheels) and Tracks (not amphibious)

....

Previously these armies operated BTRs and BMPs, wheels and tracks.

 

[FJAG]

On the other hand, next-door neighbour Lithuania is acquiring 900+ Patria 6x6 wheeled APCs. The Patria is also in service with Sweden, Finland, Latvia, Denmark, Germany and possibly the UK.

Lithuania buying Patria CAVS 6x6 (900 or so)

Also buying 100 CV90

Yup. tracked IFVs for heavy combined arms forces, wheeled APCs for medium infantry - like Germany uses Puma and Lynx for combined arms Panzergrenadiers and Boxer for Jaegers. I'm not saying there isn't a roll for armoured wheeled vehicles - combined arms isn't one of them.

$0.02

 

[Kirkhill]

Yup. tracked IFVs for heavy combined arms forces, wheeled APCs for medium infantry - like Germany uses Puma and Lynx for combined arms Panzergrenadiers and Boxer for Jaegers. I'm not saying there isn't a roll for armoured wheeled vehicles - combined arms isn't one of them.

$0.02

All the more reason to turn all the tracks over to the RCAC, along with their panzergrenadiers.

 

[McG]

Which goes back to my general principle - get a purpose built vehicle designed for the most arduous task, and don’t try to make a base vehicle something it is not.

That's not the Canadian way! You have to start with the simplest variant (infantry section carrier) with the intent to figure out everything else once that is into fielding, and then be surprised when it is realized the chosen common platform cannot support the mass of the recovery, fitter, and engineer variants ... who could have guessed that would happen again?

 

[FJAG]

All the more reason to turn all the tracks over to the RCAC, along with their panzergrenadiers.

Not in my mind. At the end of the day, the infantry skills of grenadiers are not much different from the light folks barring the riding around in metal shells and the place to dismount - to be specific it is easier to have a common training system for infanteers of all stripes rather than to have a separate one for grenadiers and one for jaegers and light and para and mountain. Start with a base infanteer and then do specilized add-on training.

There may be a case to be made for the three man vehicle crew - there's clearly some commonality respecting the driver, gunner and commander that might translate with the tankers, but then again mech IFVs don't always drive around - frequently they are parked and you need more dismounted foot pounder skills. I'm open to either concept.