Going to 3 RCR on the 21st, Ordered a custom CADPAT Vest.............
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Hell, if we take that arguement to it's fullest, why not just send 'em in with puttees and Ross rifles?
"it is a true dickhead who sends his troops into combat with sub-par equipment"
"it is a true dickhead who sends his troops into combat with sub-par equipment"
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I suppose we could use sandels and camels. Seems to work for the Taliban.
A craftsman knows which tools are shit and which aren't. That's why they tend to have their own set.
A craftsman knows which tools are shit and which aren't. That's why they tend to have their own set.
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With regards to regimental stereotypes, please refrain. It adds nothing to this thread.
Good points have been made all round. The main point to remember is logistics. If the crown cannot supply and replace kit for deployed troops, then we are wasting our time. See my earlier post: perhaps there is room for "something else" or "another approach", such as having approved suppliers as sub-contractors to provide the CF with kit that has been trialed and found acceptable.
As for "Mr. Giggity Giggity" (Quagmire: sorry, couldn't resist ;D), the point of having 10 mags vice 5 doesn't necessarily make the rounds go out faster, but for a longer sustained time without resupplying one's self. And, of course, if the LAV is "right there", of course the 7.62mm coaxial Machine Gun may be of assistance
Having said that, your point is very well taken.
Good points have been made all round. The main point to remember is logistics. If the crown cannot supply and replace kit for deployed troops, then we are wasting our time. See my earlier post: perhaps there is room for "something else" or "another approach", such as having approved suppliers as sub-contractors to provide the CF with kit that has been trialed and found acceptable.
As for "Mr. Giggity Giggity" (Quagmire: sorry, couldn't resist ;D), the point of having 10 mags vice 5 doesn't necessarily make the rounds go out faster, but for a longer sustained time without resupplying one's self. And, of course, if the LAV is "right there", of course the 7.62mm coaxial Machine Gun may be of assistance
Having said that, your point is very well taken.
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Sir with all due respect is it a stereotype if its true. 
Anyway the LAV will not always be there (LAV's don't go up mountains well) or may be taken out. There was a case of a LAV losing its optics. By quicker I meant this. It is quicker to have more rounds down range when you have more mags because you don't have to reload as much. I do realize fire discipline is important however in the shit storm of A Stan anything can happen and does.
Agreed on the suppliers that are approved like the Americans. However see my post as to why it is not as big a deal as it is made out. You and I have gone back and forth on this previously and have come to the same result.
Anyway the LAV will not always be there (LAV's don't go up mountains well) or may be taken out. There was a case of a LAV losing its optics. By quicker I meant this. It is quicker to have more rounds down range when you have more mags because you don't have to reload as much. I do realize fire discipline is important however in the shit storm of A Stan anything can happen and does.
Agreed on the suppliers that are approved like the Americans. However see my post as to why it is not as big a deal as it is made out. You and I have gone back and forth on this previously and have come to the same result.
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Interesting that this discussion is still going.
I could tell some stories, quote some emails, point out some facts, but really, will it change any thinking on this subject?
Unlikely, as those who are adapting, making the box bigger, and are always thinking about constant improvement and effectiveness are the ones who are fighting for better gear and equipment already.
Those happy when the troops are turned out with polished boots and ironed shirts are set in the mind set of the lower ranks following orders. Well we have entered a new age when those lower ranks have to make the split second decisions, not just follow orders to storm a bridge.
This in no way suggests that lower ranks don't have to follow orders. It suggests again about where the focus is.
I could tell some stories, quote some emails, point out some facts, but really, will it change any thinking on this subject?
Unlikely, as those who are adapting, making the box bigger, and are always thinking about constant improvement and effectiveness are the ones who are fighting for better gear and equipment already.
Those happy when the troops are turned out with polished boots and ironed shirts are set in the mind set of the lower ranks following orders. Well we have entered a new age when those lower ranks have to make the split second decisions, not just follow orders to storm a bridge.
This in no way suggests that lower ranks don't have to follow orders. It suggests again about where the focus is.
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Farmboy people may contrue your dialogue as biased. Not me though.
George Wallace
Army.ca Dinosaur
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Farmboy said:
I, however, construe your dialogue as being very ill-informed as to what real soldiers in the CF are like. You make them seem like automatons. I can assure you that Canadian Soldiers, even at the lowest levels, are able to show individual initiative when it comes to following orders and getting tasks done.
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Let us put this discussion to bed with a few things we can all agree on:
The current issue TV does not meet the operational requirements of most of the army. In particular, the infantry.
Certain units will not let you wear off the shelf kit not issued by QM.
Soldiers should not have to buy kit for use during operations.
If kit deficiencies are repeatedly noted, then upgrades should be sought immediately.
CF kit replacement/procurement is way too slow.
The current issue TV does not meet the operational requirements of most of the army. In particular, the infantry.
Certain units will not let you wear off the shelf kit not issued by QM.
Soldiers should not have to buy kit for use during operations.
If kit deficiencies are repeatedly noted, then upgrades should be sought immediately.
CF kit replacement/procurement is way too slow.
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AM agreed on all points.
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HitorMiss said:
more of the RSM for 1. 3? I dunno about that, I highly doubt he'd be cool with anything. I know my CSM wouldn't be at all.
as for this screaming of all being the same; boot colour (ie black in woodlands, and tan in deserts duh?), uniform style (to me that's as far as pockets on the arms I suppose, don't need no $140 ops shirt from dropzone, as shinny as it may be), head cover (what we get issued is fine so suck it up). I've always been admant about that. so long as you've got an issued set that you haven't done crap too, and you've got boots that look like what's issued. like alot of people I know have been saying, you want us to carry 10 mags in a five mag pouch how? oh okay lets just take mission essential kit out of a pouch. PW's tags and zap straps so we've got proper ID and security on the guys? naw we don't need that at all. or the water bottle? no the troops shouldn't carry as much water a possibly, let em dehydrate on us! the type of warfare that we use to train far has been put onto the back burner (not saying that we shouldn't train like that however) but the scenario's we (specifically the infantry I suppose) are in has changed totally, especially being the mountains of a-stan and a good possibility of being kilometer's away from the closest support unit. arty and mortar's can only be called so close you know?
then again I'm just a private what do I know like always right?
Greg
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Armymedic said:
If it is'nt Captain obvious, and his trusty signaller, Cpl Tips. :
How can you say, in the same breath, that the kit we are issued is substandard, that there is no effective way for the army to replace it, when not even two pages ago you were lambasting me for being unable to "get my head around" the idea that effective units practice slavish adherence to uniformity.
Uniformity on deployment is dumb, full stop. The rig that is ideal for a C6 gunner is useless to a rifleman and even more so for a sniper. The imposition of such rules is degrading the operational effectiveness of our troops, for the sake of a pretty picture on the parade square and needs to be stopped. Operational effectiveness is the order of the day, and some of the kit we are issued is ineffective. Allowing troops to replace it is both cheap (for the army) and effective. If logistics is the concern, make him carry a spare rig in his follow up kit. There are no TVs currently available for issue anyway - our esteemed military ran out.
In one of my favourite military writings, Jean Larteguy wrote;
I'd like to have two Armies -- one for display, with lovely guns, tanks, little Soldiers, staffs, distinguished and doddering Generals and deal little regimental officers, who would be deeply concerned over their General's bowel movements or their Colonel's piles; an Army that would be shown for a modest fee on every fairground in the country."
The other would be the REAL ONE, composed entirely of young enthusiasts in camouflage uniforms, who would not be put on display but from whom impossible efforts would be demanded and to whom all sorts of tricks would be taught. That's the Army in which I should like to fight.
Some posters on this forum really need to ask themselves; "which army am I advocating?".
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GO!!! I think your very lucky your not in A Coy 2 VP right now. Poor guys.
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why is that Quagmire?
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Because the Royals will be taking a coy of Patrica's with them oversea's and I think by now you can see that we don't see eye to eye on dress and deportment ON OPERATIONS.
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seen and understood
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oh, the delicious irony of this post!Quagmire said:
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Sorry my ironic meter is broken. Has it anything to do with you being a former Royal?
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