Infantry of Tomorrow

[KevinB]

They had the MGS. It did what the Booker was supposed to but on wheels. Most of them did work. It still wasn't a hero. It's a funny thing, but a light to medium direct fire vehicle should have some merit to it but in the end it innately doesn't. I've come to the conclusion that the right direct fire support vehicle for dismounted troops is the tank.

I was more thinking for the Bradley formations etc - the Abrams was a little overkill for Iraq.

Dismounts had Javelins and AH-64’s

No. But only as it's aging out and doesn't hold a full section. I think the solution is an IFV for "armoured infantry," a Senator-like battle taxi vehicle for "mech infantry" and a ISVF for specialized "light infantry."

I’m of the option a 40-50ton Tracked IFV is what you work with Tanks for. That is Mech Infantry, perhaps a tracked taxi is needed as well, but I’m not convinced.

The 15-20t LAV 2.0 systems are your Motorized Infantry - these are the Light Armor systems for NEO etc tasks. They aren’t needed in mass - just for QRF stuff for your JFE/NEO/DART.
Its a very light bus, designed to get one from A to B and back in a lower threat environment than what you would need an ABCT for


Then you have Light Mobility assistance- which is the GM LUV down thru the ATV’s.

I’d put BV-206 type things in with that as well.
As its mobility assistance, not a vehicle to fight from.

 

[Kirkhill]

Infantry tank.

 

[PrairieFella]

View attachment 94010

Infantry tank.

Ill give you one better.


A good ole fashioned punch drill.

 

[FJAG]

The 15-20t LAV 2.0 systems are your Motorized Infantry - these are the Light Armor systems for NEO etc tasks. They aren’t needed in mass - just for QRF stuff for your JFE/NEO/DART.
Its a very light bus, designed to get one from A to B and back in a lower threat environment than what you would need an ABCT for

I used to be dead set against the converted truck, Senator type vehicles. I thought the Grizzley, Bisson and Stryker as adequate but getting pricy. What I want now is the following.

To an extent when I look at the middle fleet, I want: a) lots of them - use them everywhere as troop, cargo and SEV versions (armoured infantry IFVs and light infantry ISV are niche specialized roles - for the middle I want a general purpose fleet that spans the entire gap in between except for heavier logistics vehicles) they don't all need to be armoured but need the same chassis; b) to have lots of them you need low cost; c) provide enough armour against small arms and splinters but keep them light; d) ease of maintenance and parts supply - easy to fix, the Model-T of the army; e) easy to operate - if you can drive a pickup truck, you can drive one and all of these things; and f) local development, manufacture and factory level support on a continuous-build, not burst, basis.

I'm starting to think that Senator can fill that bill. Is it the best of class? Who knows, there are far too many out there and they change daily but it certainly seems good enough to meet my requirements and can grow to meet new needs.

My vision for the 2.0% army or 3.5% army is to: a) build an armoured force using tracked tanks, IFVs and SPs through GDLS on a continuous-build basis; b) relegate existing LAVs to a secondary armoured training force but let the fleet slowly shrink and age out; c) develop a light quick reaction force through purchases of ISVs and specialized tracked and wheeled light vehicles (these could be foreign sales or locally manufactured but in relatively small scale); d) fill out the rest of the force using the continuous-build middle fleet through Roshel; and e) task a third Canadian manufacturer to continuous-build the entire logistics fleet.

 

[Kirkhill]

That is a Marine Corps tank. The tank is was attached to the infantry in penny packets. By design.

Meanwhile - an alternate version of the infantry tank



A CUAS-Tank with an M230LF cannon (30x113) as supplied to the Thai Army. It goes where the infantry goes.

EDGE and Milrem Robotics to Field a UAE Robotic Force - Defense Update:

Milrem Robotics, an Estonian company partly owned by the UAE based EDGE Group will equip the UAE Armed Forces with 60 Unmanned Ground Vehicles (UGVs), according to an official announcement released yesterday at the colsong day of the UMEX exhibition in Dubai. Milrem also unveiled a new 8x8...

defense-update.com

 

[HavokFour]

Just throwing this in here. The Senator even has a bunch of variants already designed and ready to go, even an electronic CUAS version. They can already pump out 120-140 per month.

Roshel – Smart Armored Vehicles

Roshel is one of the largest manufacturers of smart armored vehicles for commercial and government organizations in North America.

roshel.com

 

[PrairieFella]

Just throwing this in here, the Senator even has a bunch of variants already designed and ready to go. They can already pump out 120-140 per month.

Roshel – Smart Armored Vehicles

Roshel is one of the largest manufacturers of smart armored vehicles for commercial and government organizations in North America.

roshel.com

Apparently they're also looking at how to integrate mortars into the things. Just for Senators, there are MRAPs, APCs, EOD variants, ambulances, anti-air and C-UAS. I expect a dedicated CP soon. Roshel certainly is ambitious.

 

[Kirkhill]

Infantry plus UAVs to create a 10 to 15 km deep kill zone.

Ukraine to launch 'Drone Line' project to enhance battlefield operations

The project seeks to enhance combat effectiveness by expanding the use of drones within elite units of the Ground Forces and the State Border Guard Service.

kyivindependent.com

I presume this will also include lots of mines as well. Anti-tank, anti-personnel and off-route. Perhaps some tethered mobile MGs?

 

[Kirkhill]

Ukrainian Forces Integrate Remotely Operated ShaBlya MK19(M) for Enhanced Grenade Launcher Capabilities

The Ukrainian Ministry of Defense has embraced the “ShaBlya MK19(M)” combat module for grenade launchers to enhance military capabilities.

united24media.com

An alternative for light forces - a 40mm GMG on an RWS on a trailer/UGV.

I reckon it doesn't need to be powered. It could be a two-wheeled trailer that could be hauled into the bed of a pickup or dragged behind any ATV. On the other hand it could be outfitted with a battery pack and a charging cable to plug into the back of a hybrid vehicle.

 

[Kirkhill]

Related - Ukraine trying to eliminate misfeeds, a necessary precondition for reliable RWS and UGV operations.

Ukraine Debuts “Murena” Feed System to Power Heavy Machine Guns and Combat Robots

At the Brave1 exhibition, Ukraine’s developers unveiled “Murena,” a modular system for consistent ammunition supply for various weaponry.

united24media.com

 

[Kirkhill]

And a similarly scaled laser system

Ukraine’s Fulltime Robotics Unveils “Slim Beam” Laser Turret to Neutralize Drones and More

Fulltime Robotics presents the “Slim Beam” laser turret, a versatile system for neutralizing drones and clearing threats, effective in military and civilian use.

united24media.com

 

[ueo]

Ill give you one better.

View attachment 94011
A good ole fashioned punch drill.

merkava maybe?

 

[PrairieFella]

merkava maybe?

The merkava as an IFV/tank is a myth. It can sardine a couple dudes in the back but its more meant for the emergency evacuation of ground troops in urban warfare and less for dismounts.

 

[markppcli]

Ill give you one better.

View attachment 94011
A good ole fashioned punch drill.

If the dismounts are behind the tank like that they aren’t punching.

 

[KevinB]

If the dismounts are behind the tank like that they aren’t punching.

Avoid getting punched drill

 

[vonGarvin]

Avoid getting punched drill

Taught at the Wainwright Hotel, Club Entre-Nous and Sassy's, depending on location of your battle school, back in the day

 

[KevinB]

Taught at the Wainwright Hotel, Club Entre-Nous and Sassy's, depending on location of your battle school, back in the day

Actually I am pretty sure that was how to take a punch

But as to the original pic from @PrairieFella ideally the armor is punching while the Infantry is somewhat safely nestled behind until needed -- the 120mm cannon and "unlimited ammo" coax can do a lot more than a squad/section can in terms of direct fire firepower.

 

[ueo]

Actually I am pretty sure that was how to take a punch

But as to the original pic from @PrairieFella ideally the armor is punching while the Infantry is somewhat safely nestled behind until needed -- the 120mm cannon and "unlimited ammo" coax can do a lot more than a squad/section can in terms of direct fire firepower.

unlimited ammo, in what reality?

 

[ueo]

The merkava as an IFV/tank is a myth. It can sardine a couple dudes in the back but its more meant for the emergency evacuation of ground troops in urban warfare and less for dismounts.

Ever been in one?

 

[markppcli]

unlimited ammo, in what reality?

Is it 880 in the can on a Leo 2? That’s what @KevinB is getting at. Obviously it’s not unlimited. It just represents substantially more sustained fire power than a section.

Ever been in one?

Does that matter? Is it material to their understanding of how their Meekavs employed the small space they have? Because what it has is a small space meant primarily for ammunition storage that can - in extremis - be used to carry soldiers. It is not some tank / IFV hybrid. It’s a crawl space.