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Informing the Army’s Future Structure

So with 97 ACSV CPs we should be able to fill all the brigade and mech bn CPs with maybe a few extras. That should release, one would think, 97 LAV 6.0 UP CP versions
It will not free-up LAV 6 CPs because most of those are used as commanders’ vehicles and not as CPs. Some are company CPs, but you have identified they should stay as such. Others are Engr Recce where they are needed for radio configuration & the extra eqpt space on the back.
 
It will not free-up LAV 6 CPs because most of those are used as commanders’ vehicles and not as CPs. Some are company CPs, but you have identified they should stay as such. Others are Engr Recce where they are needed for radio configuration & the extra eqpt space on the back.
Yeah. I know that much of the LAV ACSV program is to replace tired Bisons and TLAVs. That makes a lot of sense (although I disagree with divestment. There's usage left in many of those old beasts.)

A lot of the LAV ACSVs, like the fitter and recovery and ambulance and extra engineer vehicles should have been bought decades ago.

But lets leave aside the version numbers and concentrate on total numbers of armoured vehicles.

We have 550 under LAV UP, another 66 under Recce and another 361 under LAV ACSV - That's a total of 927 LAV 6.0 of all versions. The there are 500 TAPVs for a total armoured fleet of 1,427 wheeled armoured vehicles.

If you look at a Stryker BCT it has a total of around 220 Strykers (actually 294 but that's for three Stryker battalions each of whom has 8 mortar carriers - we only have two mech battalions and no mortars). So three Stryker BCTs (with two mech bns each) total 660 Strykers give or take a dozen here or there. We have close to 40% more LAV 6.0s and when you take the TAPVs into account we have close to 100% excess the number of vehicles needed to equip 3 Stryker BCTs. And yes, some of those TAPVs are with the Reserves.

The Canadian Army is obviously giving LAVs to a lot of folks and teams that the US Stryker BCT equips with wheeled vehicles. No wonder we have a problem with VOR rates. And undoubtedly there's a number being held in an operational reserve and at schools - but that's still a fair gap.

All of which gets me back to my original bitch which is why we don't equip our battalions with ATGM and mortar LAVs? If it's just PYs then fill them with reservists. Between the 181 LAV UP turreted CPs and the 97 LAV ACSV "Queen Mary" CPs we have a total of 278 CPs of some type or other. Do we just value armouring our staff officer more than armouring our mortars and ATGMs (that we have far too few of anyway)?

And don't get me started on why we don't allocate four or five companies' worth to reserve force training centres.

Rant ends.

:cautious:
 
I suspect politics had much to do with it. The ACSV was plodding along and then suddenly launched forward in a rush that conveniently allowed a “we’re buying Canadian” announcement just before the 2019 election. How did the project get that speed? It ditched detailed defining of fleet composition requirements and did strict platform replacement with some minor tweaking. We also committed to buying all the new ACSV in the same new hull that GDLS designed to replace a Queen Mary. So the combat team ambulance, which used to be the smallest most subtle vehicle as bison or TLAV, will now be one of the tallest. The troop carrier and Engr Sect Carrier will also be extraneously bulky & harder to hide. This would not be a good platform for ATGM or mortars.
 
I suspect politics had much to do with it. The ACSV was plodding along and then suddenly launched forward in a rush that conveniently allowed a “we’re buying Canadian” announcement just before the 2019 election. How did the project get that speed? It ditched detailed defining of fleet composition requirements and did strict platform replacement with some minor tweaking. We also committed to buying all the new ACSV in the same new hull that GDLS designed to replace a Queen Mary. So the combat team ambulance, which used to be the smallest most subtle vehicle as bison or TLAV, will now be one of the tallest. The troop carrier and Engr Sect Carrier will also be extraneously bulky & harder to hide. This would not be a good platform for ATGM or mortars.
That modularity is actually a good thing. As long as it still fits in an airplane and under the vast majority of bridges its still good.

One can only hope that there will be another purchase of LAVs for SHORAD, mortar and ATGM. Personally I would like to keep London in production and to continue to make armoured vehicles for the Army indefinitely. I'd just like to spread them out a bit further than they are now.

🍻
 
That modularity is actually a good thing. As long as it still fits in an airplane and under the vast majority of bridges its still good.

One can only hope that there will be another purchase of LAVs for SHORAD, mortar and ATGM. Personally I would like to keep London in production and to continue to make armoured vehicles for the Army indefinitely. I'd just like to spread them out a bit further than they are now.

🍻

FJAG - where do you expect to employ this never-ending stream of tin-cans?

Can we have some money to buy some more helicopters from Montreal? They will come in at least as handy.
 
FJAG - where do you expect to employ this never-ending stream of tin-cans?

Can we have some money to buy some more helicopters from Montreal? They will come in at least as handy.
I don’t mean to reply on FJAG’s behalf obviously, but I think he’s simply thinking of developing a longer term plan than exists now.

I had suggested something similar in another thread a while back.

Instead of ordering 550 LAVs from GDLS in London all at once, and then nothing for a decade or so - if we did spread our purchases out to be more frequent, it would benefit everyone.

Same goes for helicopters in Quebec (thankfully Bell does make good helicopters) - by purchasing 10 a year or so, and upgrading the ones in cycle, it just stabilizes the workforce. Stable workforce is a more experienced workforce, stabilizes the local economy, etc.

(The above only works if we don’t have to run a bloody competition every single time ofcourse…)


Our boom & bust way of doing things isn’t good for anybody.



0.02
 
FJAG - where do you expect to employ this never-ending stream of tin-cans?

Can we have some money to buy some more helicopters from Montreal? They will come in at least as handy.
Twenty thousand unequipped reservists.

This stuff is new enough to last another twenty years.

It actually provides options if one organizes to maintain it properly. I keep saying; government and the people understand the need for defence and security - they're just fed up with the spiraling costs much of which stems from keeping a standing army on year-round salaries. Think of what you could do if you could freeze the budget bet dedicate 30% of the full-time pay packet to modernizing equipment.

I don’t mean to reply on FJAG’s behalf obviously, but I think he’s simply thinking of developing a longer term plan than exists now.

I had suggested something similar in another thread a while back.

Instead of ordering 550 LAVs from GDLS in London all at once, and then nothing for a decade or so - if we did spread our purchases out to be more frequent, it would benefit everyone.
Very much so. It's an industry which we have to keep alive and in fact we should help it to diversify. We need to keep product upgrades and improvements and maintenance constantly going over the next twenty or so years of the life of this equipment and have a viable manufacturing base for when it is time yo replace it. If there's one thing that is clear its that once an industry like this shuts down its a massive and very expensive effort to start it up again. There's absolutely no reason why the capability shortfalls that we have now can't be incorporated into a LAV 6.0 chassis. I can see autoloading 155 SPs, ammo limbers and a variety of precision rockets type systems all using a common chassis. Maybe a few of the Centauro like tank destroyers - I already mentioned mortar and ATGM carriers. We just spent $2 billion on 381 vehicles that will take until 2022 or so to complete - let's spend another half billion every year for the next five or six years to build another 300 real combat support vehicles.

The other thing is trucks. This replacement of the whole fleet at one time with a range of different types of vehicles is IMHO problematic - especially as we tend to reduce the size of the fleet with each purchase. We need a selection of a limited number of standard SMP vehicles which keep being continuously in a set number per year produced to offset losses, and spare parts to replace worn out elements and being product improved. My guess is that eighty percent of a given truck does not change from model to model - frames, cabs, load beds, wheels - they can be manufactured with the same tools and dies for decades. Power packs and drivetrain elements do go through generations and the chassis should be capable of taking a new one just like many aircraft can take modified and improved engines.

We need a long term industrial manufacturing plan. Oh yeah. And then there's ammunition. But that's another story.

🍻
 
I think this may be worth a new thread? Strategic industrial manufacturing and sustainability?

Make an NSS for the Army/RCAF. Tell key industrial partners that if they maintain a heavy presence in this country, we will keep them working.

Make a commitment to industry that Canada will always have the ability to build almost any ship the RCN/CCG needs, APCs (and many variants) rotary wing aircraft. Add to that list as you wish.

You could even use local Toyota dealerships to run basic maintenance on a MILCOTs Toyota Land Cruiser, and use the companies large manufacturing presence in Canada to keep the auto industry happy too. Cheaper and than giving an auto industry plant loans or handouts, and heck, the CF gets something out of it too. Buy CANAMs or MRZRs for the Reserves (to start) and try something similar.

Keep a line building more and more complex LAV variants and maintain the ability to run deep maintenance on older models on a running basis like the US does with the Abrams. Start a design project on the next LAV/APC to be built here in 10 years using our decades of experience in wheeled LAVs. Start building the easier 'base' models then grow the project to replace the newer and complex LAV 6 variants (ACSVs, SHORAD, AA/AD, MC etc...) with your new LAV. Export unarmed versions only...if anyone else buys them.

Run a parallel project to build out the LAV fleet to see how we can throw more jobs on this platform. A new turret (maybe different caliber?), ATGM, SHORAD, AD, Mortar and any variant that a company can reasonably fit onto the platform. Carry notes over to the next LAV program to make the new one more future-proof and easier to work on and maintain.

Same thing with the Griffon and Twin Otter. Buy X many new ones per year, build new features into them. Start a new replacement program with other Bell/Viking products built or assembled in Canada in 10 years. The utility helicopter market is growing and our friends also have a need (UK), wouldn't it be great if we anticipated the needs of our friends and our own CF to build something we can all use?
 
Now I get your drift, FJAG.

And I agree with you.

Perhaps it would help it would help if we established "utility" standards rather than all these custom-tailored variants?

Ammunition orders are standardized. The only real variable is the quantity.

Perhaps if we could contract for baseline units that are useful in their own right to be delivered at a standard pace. In the way that trucks are commonly built. Powertrain and frame and cab to which a box can be attached. A Bison type armoured vehicle - light and amphibious and able to be driven by a militia driver - neither that nor the M113 seemed to take much effort to modify to meet specific needs. An up-engined utility standard Griffon II perhaps. A steady supply of C6,7,8 and 9 parts out of Diemaco.

Is that in line with your thinking? Start with a delivery schedule equivalent to wastage so as to maintain a standard of capability?

Edit - Just finished typing after you posted GR66.
 
I've been following this for weeks and pondering options...not so much for Reg Force units but the role of Reserve units and operability.

Please also keep in mind I'm a civilian but have a background in emergency management which has colored much of my thinking.

Premise 1 - Use of reserve units will continue and most likely expand in response to emergency civilian situations (fire/flood/pandemic...) due to ability of the federal government to be able to deploy a uniform, self contained, visible force to assist the lead province/municipality
Premise 2 - Vehicles have to be able to be maintain by existing civilian infrastructure within Canada. This means over the counter purchase and limited specialty equipment unless it's for a very distinct and unique military role.

When I think of the military and the number of functions needed by each unit - people mover/transport/POL/medical I often think back to working overseas and in Nepal the role of Tata trucks. These are sold as a vehicle with cab/frame/tires but the rear deck is custom built based upon the customer's needs. So the same truck can be installed with a tank for POL or water movement or a flat deck if you need to move modular sea cans. Add stake mounts or stakes to the side of a flat deck and you've for a cattle truck/log truck/hay bale wagon. Simple and low tech but due to the common parts for almost all the truck it becomes easy for a mechanic to work on any truck vs. a specific vehicle model. For reference these are about 20 ton capacity and for size reference between a 6x6 truck and long haul tractor trailer truck in size.

If a reserve unit is running 100 personnel we are not talking a significant number of vehicles unless a person starts thinking about how to deploy both the soldier and it's gear. My personal preference would be a "large" fleet of 4x4 extended cab pickups suitable for 4x soldiers. Why this set up?
  1. 4x4 capacity allows for travel in both remote and urban areas.
  2. Pickup allows for the use of civilian Class 5 driver's licenses with limited additional driver training needed
  3. An extended cab pickup is suitable for travel and/or deployment point of personal gear while on operations. This is similar to wildfire crews deploying with handtools and personal webbing for the day but also allows for transportation of support gear in bed.
  4. In event of break down you have the ability to surge 50% of the crew capacity per truck - 6 people - with seatbelts. This is often overlooked but can be important. Note this is a surge capacity and should be baseline as now you're jammed tight in the truck.
  5. Addition of a truck topper unit allows for set up of a medical aid post. Its not a question of "if" injuries are to occur but a question of "When" and "how many". Addition of a clean sterile location for immediate stabilization is a major gain for this type of work and a 1/10 ratio would not be unrealistic of truck.
If the full unit deployed this way we'd be talking 25 trucks. 20,000 reserve unit/100 people per = need for 5,000 pickups. As mentioned elsewhere this should not be a surge purchase but part of an ongoing replacement/rotation of trucks in the 200-250 range per year. Why so few...because you need more than just pick ups.

For example - Transport unit:
  • need for a wrecker/tow trucks? Can a deck truck similar to AMA contractor be used? you need a couple but you're able to handle at least most smaller units.
  • Fuel truck as you want to have your own fueling station. Tidy tanks in the back of a few trucks can be a major assist but you still want reliable fuel.
  • Crane/boom truck? Need to move a major generator? Sea Can? you're not doing it with pickups so now you're into larger units.
  • Mechanic service truck?
  • Command and communications truck?
Now even for this type of scenario there are a number of truck models out there used by welders/pressure trucks/water trucks that are in the 5-15 ton range and will handle much of the work. Instead of deploying everything as trucks you then have a smaller subset of larger trucks (class 3 civilian license equivalent) that are common dual wheel drive 4x4 capable for driver familiarity even if they don't know the specific truck.

A couple more considerations...I've used 100 soldiers as a basic premise. But not all units are at that level and maybe not all are priority for purchasing new trucks based upon their existing fleets. But the Government of Canada already buys pickups and cars via bulk offers for other departments so it would not be a reach to add additional trucks to existing processes. Service work can be done via local dealerships/mechanic garages so you're not maintaining a parts inventory and you have a product that, upon end of lifespan, can easily be disposed of via local surplus auction/sale. Additional trucks can also be sourced via fleet rentals if needed for specific training missions and remain fully integrated.

This however is a pure civilian response situation and does not fully address the needs of an Army especially looking at specialized unit formation and higher training. But the cost of running a pick up is significantly lower than that of running a larger unit which in theory allows for a more centralized fleet of military vehicles (i.e. LAV's) to be maintained at the main training bases. Coordination of a road movement convey with pick-ups would translate, at least, partially to running a supply convoy on CFB Gagetown or Wainwright. Much of command is knowing where your resources are and communication between units and this can be learned on cheaper units maneuvering in rural Saskatchewan or British Columbia via civilian vehicles prior to doing an annual? bi-annual? unit exercise on the more unit specific unit mission units.

If the Armed Forces are going to insist upon long pre-mission workup exercises prior to deployment on UN/NATO missions then I tend to think that trying to maintain full capacity everywhere is not likely. Instead focus on a simpler task loading for the day to day while aligning the structure and main unit focus in alignment for the clearly defined and pre-planned larger scale training (i.e. a reservist should be able to show all major training to an employer at the beginning of the calendar year short of war mobilization) might help bridge the gap between being under resourced for a peer-to-peer conflict situation and being over geared for simpler civilian aid missions.

Anyways...a different perspective from a civilian.
foresterab
 
Actually not bad for a civilian effort.

My thoughts on logistic vehicles differ significantly from Canada's past line of thinking which consists of fleets of both standard military pattern (SMP) and commercial off the shelf (but militarized - MILCOTS) lines in weight ranges going from utility (around .25 to 1.5 ton capacity) to 1.25 to 1.5 ton (your basic pick up range), 2.5 ton, 5 ton (medium capacity) and 10 ton (heavy capacity).

My thoughts differ in that I don't simply want to give reservists trucks to provide them mobility, I want to equip them the same way as the Regular Force so that they can fully operationally capable and perform military missions particulalar to their specialty.

Firstly I would give up the MILCOTS line completely. It basically doubles the variety of vehicles and creates a more complex spare parts and maintenance requirement (even if the work is given to neighbourhood car dealers) and limits the number of vehicles which can be deployed operationally. One think about car dealerships, they won't go to the Congo on a UN deployment or to Latvia on a NATO one. Quite frankly, I'd give up a complete Regular Force infantry battalion if it would give us six hundred more maintainers and parts supply clerks within the various brigades.

As far as the lines of vehicles go I'd firstly give up the give up the light utility vehicles and light support vehicles completely in favour of a single 4x4 light utility chassis in the 1.5 - 2 ton capacity range. Something in the nature of a JLTV but with a little more flexibility in body choices. Give it the basic frame and powertrain of, for example, a Ford F-350 with a modified suspension and standard belly plate to be mine resistant so that everything from the engine to the wheels, regardless of model, is standard. Then add specialized bodies from unarmoured to armoured and from basic utility (passenger) to basic utility (cargo), small CPs, ambulance. maint fitter, light infantry section vehicle, light wheeled reconnaissance etc etc. (in very, very round figures, we need about 4,000 of these)

Next create a basic tactical logistics line in say the 7.5 - 10 ton range and which would be the sole vehicle (save recovery) within all battalion sized units. Again a common mine resistant chassis suspension and powertrain and cab (either armoured or unarmoured) but specialized load beds from pallet to cargo with drop down benches for passengers to gun tractor det cab and ammo storage to specialized containers from everything from fitters to communications to secured stores etc. (again in very round figures I would guess we need about 4,000 of these as well plus some trailers)

The third line of vehicles would be heavy logistics line of around a 15 ton capacity. Same idea as the medium as to chassis, power train and cab with varying cargo configuration possibilities including a semi trailer capable one for both flatbed and containers. These would only be held at the brigade service battalion and any service support formations. (My guess is about 1,500 plus some trailers)

There is one additional limited class and if can be built from the heavy line with perhaps a much heavier powertrain that would be good. Basically it has two variants, one is a recovery vehicle with the capacity to handle up to the heaviest LAV we have in difficult terrain and the other is a Heavy Equipment Transport (HET) variant capable of handling the heaviest Leo 2 tank that we have. (my guess is around 100 - 125 recovery and 50 - 75 HETs)

The standardization into three fleets each based on its own common chassis and powertrain would greatly simplify both training of operators and maintainers and the maintenance system. If the powertrains come with few modifications from standard production lines then one can add on commercial maintenance support but, quite frankly I'm a firm believer that we need to a) simplify maintenance through standardized vehicle lines and b) train and man all our maintenance support in house through full-time military maintainers so that we can ensure the deployability of our maintenance system. A 100% simplified SMP fleet will still be fully able to support any and all domestic operations.

I'll be the first to agree that others have a much different view of how the Army should handle vehicle fleets and maintenance. Unfortunately while their views may prevail and may be feasible in a peacetime army, they will not enhance operational capabilities which, after all, is why the government spends the big bucks on us.

🍻
 
From a weekend with too much time on my hands.

The vehicle list garnered from Public Services and Procurement Canada's recently delivered and currently under development projects. Presumably these constitute the backbone of Force 2025-Force 2030


CF (SSE Upgrade)71,500
RCN CSC15
RCN SSK4
RCN JSS2
RCN AOPS6+2
RCN MCDV12
RCAF Ftrs88
RCAF CP140 Recap14
CH-14685
CH-14715
CH-14827
CH-14914
CC-130J17
CC-1505
CC-1775
CC-1444
Canadian Army Vehicles
M77737
Leopard 2 - Ttl112CHER-HCE-Exp207ERC104LVM-Lt Domestic400-600
Leopard 2A6M20CHER-HSA-Exp-Backhoes12ERC-A78
Leopard 2A4M20CHER-HCE-Exp-Dozers30ERC-B26
Leopard 2A442CHER-HCE-Amd-Dozers6
Leopard 2 AEV18CHER-HCE-Exp-Loaders24LVM-Hy Expeditionary -Ttl340-520LVM-Lt Expedtionary - Ttl1000-1500
Leopard 2 AVBL??CHER-HCE-Amd-Loaders6LVM-Hy Expeditionary-TCV-16.5T50-75LVM-Lt Expeditionary -TCV-3T290-425
Leopard 2 ARV12CHER-HCE-Exp-Graders19LVM-Hy Expeditionary-MHC10-18LVM-Lt Expeditionary-Cage80-100
CHER-HCE-Amd-Graders6LVM-Hy Expeditionary-MRT50-82LVM-Lt Expeditionary-MRT255-395
LAV-Ttl977CHER-HCE-Exp-Excavators19LVM-Hy Expeditionary-LHS200-300LVM-Lt Expeditionary-Adm410-640
LAV-ISC278CHER-HCE-Amd-Excavators6LVM-Hy Expeditionary-Tractor30-45LVM-Lt Expeditionary-Ftr55-70
LAV-Cmd181CHER-HCE-Exp Compactors13LVM-Lt Expeditionary-Amb110-130
LAV-LRSS66CHER-HCE-Amd- Compactors4LVM-Hy Expeditionary-ISO-Fuel100-120
LAV-OPV47CHER-HCE-Exp-Crane-Med10LVM-Hy Expeditionary-ISO-Water10-15
LAV*-EW18CHER-HCE-Amd-Crane-Med4LVM-Hy Expeditionary-ISO-Flatracks200-300
LAV-Eng44CHER-HCE-Trlr-Lowbed8LVM-Hy Expeditionary-ISO-Pods2-8
LAV*-Eng19CHER-HCE-Modules-Dump40
ACSV-CPV97LVM-Hy Expeditionary-Trlr-Fuel30-70LVM-Lt Expeditionary -Trlr-Cgo100-150
ACSV-Amb49CHER-HCE-COTS131LVM-Hy Expeditionary-Trlr-HET30-45LVM-Lt Expeditionary -Trlr-Water100-150
ACSV-MRT70CHER-HCE-COTS-Backhoes31LVM-Hy Expeditionary-Trlr-LHS50-100
ACSV-MRV54CHER-HCE-COTS-Dumptrucks31
ASCV-FCV13CHER-HCE-COTS-Trlr-Tilt69MSVS-MilCOTS - Ttl1300LUV-MilCOTS-2T-Ttl1061
ACSV-TCV41MSVS-MilCOTS - TCV895LUV-C&R
CHER-MHE292MSVS-MilCOTS - Cage128LUV-UV858
TAPV - Ttl500CHER-MHE-RTCH12MSVS-MilCOTS - Flatbed100LUV-MP143
TAPV-Recce RWS138CHER-MHE-RTFL-Hvy20MSVS-MilCOTS - Arty94LUV-Cable60
TAPV-GU RWS226CHER-MHE-RTFL-Med66MSVS-MilCOTS - Eng51
TAPV-Recce55CHER-MHE-RTFL-Lt81MSVS-MilCOTS - MHC32
TAPV-GU81CHER-MHE-RTFL-Zoom113
MSVS-SMP-Ttl1587LUV-SMP-2T1159
IEDDMSVS-SMP-LHS750LUV-C&R466
MSVS-SMP-TCV600LUV-UV647
MSVS-SMP-MRT150LUV-MP46
MSVS-SMP-MHC50LUV-Cable
MSVS-SMP-Arty37
LUV-APK
MSVS-APS161LUV-Trlr-1T
MSVS-Trlrs322
MSVS-ISO995
MSVS-SEV Kits868
LFE-TMP-1T/3T (PL/GVW)330
LFE-TMP-Personnel (4+1)230
LFE-TMP-Cgo (2+1)100
LFE-TMP-Trlr-0.5T330
 
A more succinct summary

Actual/MinMax
MBT-63T112
LAV-29T977
TAPV-18T500
Eng Plant - Exp207
MHE292
Recovery104
Hy Exp-16T340520
Md Exp-8T1587
Lt Exp-4T10001500
LUV Exp-2T1159
TMP Exp-1T330
Eng Plant - Dom131
Md Dom-8T1300
Lt Dom-4T400600
LUV Dom-2T1061
 
Well, we can't give new armoured equipment to the Res F because it's too complex to maintain.

And we can't give old armoured equipment to the Res F because it's too worn out to maintain.
 
Well, we can't give new armoured equipment to the Res F because it's too complex to maintain.

And we can't give old armoured equipment to the Res F because it's too worn out to maintain.

So what you're saying is that, regardless of where the kit goes, we need more maintainers?
 
So what you're saying is that, regardless of where the kit goes, we need more maintainers?

Or, we need to turn it over more frequently so you're not having to source, rebuild or build ancient parts.
 
There is one additional limited class and if can be built from the heavy line with perhaps a much heavier powertrain that would be good. Basically it has two variants, one is a recovery vehicle with the capacity to handle up to the heaviest LAV we have in difficult terrain and the other is a Heavy Equipment Transport (HET) variant capable of handling the heaviest Leo 2 tank that we have. (my guess is around 100 - 125 recovery and 50 - 75 HETs)
IMHO your not going to get a wheeled Recovery Vehicle that can reliably recover a combat loaded LAV off-road - better get an actual ARV for that - and having extra ARV's for the Leo's is not a bad thing at all...

The standardization into three fleets each based on its own common chassis and powertrain would greatly simplify both training of operators and maintainers and the maintenance system. If the powertrains come with few modifications from standard production lines then one can add on commercial maintenance support but, quite frankly I'm a firm believer that we need to a) simplify maintenance through standardized vehicle lines and b) train and man all our maintenance support in house through full-time military maintainers so that we can ensure the deployability of our maintenance system. A 100% simplified SMP fleet will still be fully able to support any and all domestic operations.
Dump the Med IMHO - a light 1.5-2t chassis and a 12-15t Heavy simplifies the fleet.
I would get everything in at least 1/2 armored (floor to waist - and pillars to add mission/theatre specific armor beyond that.
Then you can get a 3rd Light COTS unarmored fleet - that can be used for admin stuff that an A vehicle isn't needed for - with the understanding it doesn't leave Canada EVER.

I'll be the first to agree that others have a much different view of how the Army should handle vehicle fleets and maintenance. Unfortunately while their views may prevail and may be feasible in a peacetime army, they will not enhance operational capabilities which, after all, is why the government spends the big bucks on us.

🍻
The CF needs a major intake of CS personnel - or - reroll of PY in the Reg Force to those trades - and they need to be able to look after a Reg and Res fleet - of common vehicles -- failure to equip the Res Force like the Regs (who have major gaps already) sets them up for failure - and a piece part plug and almost play hole in the dyke filler - not a credible force on its own.
 
From my civilian only experience if I have 100 units of whatever, I might aim to replace 10 a year, and thus by 10 years everything has been replaced and it is time to start over. I'm not sure how that would work in the military though as from year 1 to year 10 the model could have gone through several variants that differ so greatly they are pratically different. It doesn't seem like an ideal situation from a commonality perspective.

On the LAV's we've actually accomplished quite a bit here in moving from a LAV 3/Bison/Coyote to the LAV 6.0. In the meantime GDLS London has produced the LAV 700 so we're behind or missed the next evolution in the LAV family (not including the PiranhaV). I'm guessing the LAV 6.0 will be replaced by whatever replaces the LAV 700 (LAV 8.0?) if we're lucky.
 
The vehicle itself may expand into different variants (AT, AD, EW, Ambulance, etc) - but usually the engine, power packs, drive trains, and flux inhibitors stay the same.

You are correct, that if GDLS designs a new generation (LAV 8.0) there could be substantially different setups when it comes to that stuff.

But 10 years isn’t a terribly long time by military vehicle design/testing/production standards. If we end up with newer vehicles going to some units while other units wait for theirs to eventually be ready for replacement, I don’t see that as really inhibiting us all that much.

(We are the masters of orphan fleets, after all…so this is peanuts!)


It’s been mentioned up thread that in addition to the vehicles, we should be able to manufacture the turrets for the vehicles. I agree.

At one point, Canadian companies produced fantastic optics and surveillance equipment. Perhaps that still do? I don’t know. I believe FLIR and NightSun were both Canadian ideas & products.



(Mods, perhaps this should be split into it’s own thread? Lots of possibilities to discuss!)
 
At one point, Canadian companies produced fantastic optics and surveillance equipment. Perhaps that still do? I don’t know. I believe FLIR and NightSun were both Canadian ideas & products.
They still do. Optics manufactured by Wescam out of Burlington were very successfully used by Azerbaijan in their recent war with Armenia. Their Turkish-made TB2 UAV are equipped with the Wescam MX-15.
 
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