Iran Seizes Three British Vessels, 8 Crewmen

[Freight_Train]

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=worldNews&storyID=5473446&pageNumber=0
Iran Seizes Three British Vessels, 8 Crewmen
Mon Jun 21, 2004 11:35 AM ET
By Amir Paivar
TEHRAN (Reuters) - Iran seized three British naval boats on Monday, which it said had entered its waters near the Iraqi border, and arrested eight British crew.
While Tehran was deeply opposed to the U.S.-led war and occupation of Iraq, there has been little direct conflict up to now between the Shi'ite Muslim state and foreign forces along its western border.
The incident is likely to place further strain on Tehran's ties with London which last week joined other European nations in condemning Iran for being less than fully cooperative with inspectors from the U.N.'s nuclear watchdog.
"This morning three British vessels with eight crew entered the Islamic Republic of Iran's waters and Iran's naval forces, acting on their legal duty, confiscated the vessels and arrested the crew," Foreign Ministry spokesman Hamid Reza Asefi said in a statement.
"The crew are under investigation in order to clarify the issue," he added.
Tehran gave no indication of when or whether the British ships and crew might be released.
The incident involving OPEC's second largest producer added to jitters on world oil markets, already unnerved by Islamic militant attacks on foreigners in Saudi Arabia and pipeline attacks in Iraq. Prices of gold, seen as a safe haven in times of instability, rose slightly on the news.
Iran state media said the incident took place in the narrow Shatt al-Arab waterway which separates southwestern Iran from Iraq.
TERRITORIAL INTEGRITY
Britain confirmed it had "lost contact" with three vessels and eight sailors in the strip of water.
"We can confirm we did lose contact with a patrol earlier this morning and it does involve three small vessels and eight personnel," a Defense Ministry spokesman said. But he could not confirm they had been seized by Iran.
It said Britain had small naval ships there helping to train Iraqi police.
"We are not talking about ships, we are not talking about warships, we are talking about small river patrol vessels," the spokesman said.
A British diplomat in Tehran said the British government was in close contact with Iranian authorities in Tehran and London.
Iran's state television said maps and weapons carried on the British vessels were confiscated.
Revolutionary Guards spokesman Massoud Jazaeri told Reuters Iran was determined to defend its territorial integrity.
"Anyone from any nationality entering our waters will face the same response," Jazaeri said.
Iran's Revolutionary Guards, a branch of the armed forces charged with defending Iran's Islamic revolution, earlier this month seized some eight fishing vessels from the United Arab Emirates in a tit-for-tat measure after the Emirates took an Iranian boat which had strayed into its waters.

 

[Military Brat]

Ohh no, 3 "vessels"(more like patrol boats) entered the holy waters of the Iranian motherland?   : You know, if nothing better is going on in Iran than to worry about a few boats going into Iranian waters, then Iran is in a sad state of affairs.

I say play hardball with them. Cut them off from the oil export industry, if that doesn't get their attention then send a few cruise missiles their way. Sure, oil prices might go up a couple bucks a barrel without Iranian exports, but that is better than rouge nations calling the shots.   :evil:

 

[tabernac]

rouge

Rouge is red in French. Its rogue.  ;D >Just missplaced the u.

 

[casing]

...if nothing better is going on in Iran than to worry about a few boats going into Iranian waters, then Iran is in a sad state of affairs.

Actually, I think if the 3 vessels are all Iran has to worry about, that is a very good thing.

I say play hardball with them. Cut them off from the oil export industry, if that doesn't get their attention then send a few cruise missiles their way. Sure, oil prices might go up a couple bucks a barrel without Iranian exports, but that is better than rouge nations calling the shots.

For impounding a few boats with a few sailors?   It isn't like they sunk the boats.   Your suggested reaction would be a little extreme to say the least.   Not to mention not at all needed with all the existing problems going on.

 

[ags281]

Ohh no, 3 "vessels"(more like patrol boats) entered the holy waters of the Iranian motherland?   : You know, if nothing better is going on in Iran than to worry about a few boats going into Iranian waters, then Iran is in a sad state of affairs.

I say play hardball with them. Cut them off from the oil export industry, if that doesn't get their attention then send a few cruise missiles their way. Sure, oil prices might go up a couple bucks a barrel without Iranian exports, but that is better than rouge nations calling the shots.   :evil:

Um... last time I checked, they have a well-established right to call the shots in their own territorial waters. All nations do. Can you imagine what would happen if suddenly North Korean patrol boats were found in US waters unannounced? Dubbya would go spare! It sounds so far like they're acting well within their rights, and being somewhat reasonable about it. Unless additional info comes to light on the issue I'll have to remain of the opinion that perhaps the Brits should have brushed up on their navigational skills instead.

Cut off their exports? Send a few cruise missiles? Are you nuts? If you want to find an excuse to impose sanctions and start attacking random countries I think you'll need a MUCH better excuse than the fact that a country exercised it's legal right established by international treaties that your own country has signed.

 

[Military Brat]

Oh boy, you support a country randomly seizing boats at will? Geesh, vessels come into and out of Canadian waters dozens a day I am sure. You don't see those ships ceased and their crews paraded in front of the camera. 

Iran stepped out of line, and for that they should be punished. Besides, every time we buy a barrel of oil from the Iranians, it goes to fund their research for nuclear weapons, advanced missiles, or something of the like.

If those sailors were Canadian would you just sit back and say meh, they need to brush up on their navigation skills? No, you would want to take all possible actions to get them home safely.

If you support the enemy(hardcore theocratic regime) holding our allies from simply trying to train Iraqi police officers, whose side are you really on?

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Rein it in there young one,
These were not just any boats, they were armed patrol boats, to equate that with trade boats coming in our waters is wrong.
If three of anybodies armed patrol boats came in our water I would expect them to either be seized or at least warned and escorted away.
And I'm just curious, when did we declare war on Iran? I must have missed them being our enemy.
Your bravado undermines any valid points you may have.
BRUCE

 

[1feral1]

I watched the late news last night, and saw the Tommies in their desert DPMs blindfolded, and then later sitting, and all looking very poker faced. I am sure its not easy for them. Heck, how would you and I feel? maybe take teh time to think about it, as we sit infront of our PCs, TVs, or have a few beers, or just playing with your children. They are not as fortunate as us right now, and lets hope thy are released very soon.

Also videoed was their kit, ranging from wrist watches, comms eqpt, M16's with M203, and even their first-aid kits! Looks like more of a propaganda stunt done by Iranian forces more than anything, and maybe all over the UKs anti-nuke policy towards Iran. Personally i dont think any of these islamic countries should be allowed to possess anything nuclear, as there is too many radicals within who would just love to get some payback to the west.

I am sure in time, more sooner than later, the UK personnel will be released.


Regards,

Wes

 

[NavyGrunt]

Iranians have broken international law by interviewing the detainees on TV and now they are talking about "prosecuting" them. As for "armed patol boats" they were RHIBS with personal small arms. No HMG's or otherwise. Its a dick measuring contest. And I don't believe Iran should be doing things like this. It has to do with Britain calling out Iran on the nuclear issue. I can't believe Im hearing people condoning this. If we prosecuted everyone whos boat wound up in the wrong area the Canadian navy would be very busy.

Anyways I understand where you guys on "the other side" are coming from....Im just a little shocked.

 

[ags281]

I'm not saying I support the Iranian government at all. I most certainly do not. A number of years back we had an Iranian refugee live with us for about a year after he escaped the war over there, and he had some pretty scary stories of oppression (I'm glad to say he's now a full Canadian citizen, has a successful career in engineering, and a family as well). I'm merely speaking to this specific incident independent of how I might feel about the Iranian government. Whether we like it or not, all countries - not just us and our allies - have full legal right to patrol their own territory.

Yes it is true that we do allow many vessels to pass freely through our waters. Believe it or not, so does Iran. However, when a vessel is found that we do not agree to having in our waters (e.g. boat full of illegal immigrants) the boat is seized, and the occupants detained, just as Iran has done here. We did it not that long ago, and if you recall we even paraded them in front of all the news cameras and talked about prosecution.

I am certainly not suggesting that I would give up on those sailors if they were Canadian. I would be quite shocked if the British government did not do everything in its power to have them returned. What I am saying, however, is that launching an immediate attack against Iran as was suggested would be way out of line.

Is it a political pissing contest? Absolutely, and as such it requires a political response, not a military one.

 

[Military Brat]

The Iranians better watch out with those British warships venturing into their waters. Maybe the British are preparing for a big military operation against Iran. Watch out Iran, detain all them sailors, they might sink your vessels with those small arms they are carrying.

The boats, yes they are armed, with small arms. So like C7s. Wow..those small arms will do some major damage to them Iranian navy vessels.  :

Pfft..this is ludicrous that anyone would defend the Iranians. And whomever said the Iranians aren't our enemy, well hate to break it to you, but yes, yes they are our enemy. We declared war on terror. They support, finance and carry out terrorism. Therefore indirectly we have declared war on them. To assume the Iranians are our friends is just beyong belief.

The Iranians are just pissed off that the world community isn't going to let them march to their own drummer. They repeatedly break international laws, they have refused to allow inspectors to their nuclear program. They have something to hide or else the wouldn't have a problem with the inspections. Iran is a country that has no respect for international laws except when they can use it for their own personal gain (like this incident) and it is truly pathetic that anyone would defend these slimeballs.

 

[devil39]

Oh boy, you support a country randomly seizing boats at will? Geesh, vessels come into and out of Canadian waters dozens a day I am sure. You don't see those ships ceased and their crews paraded in front of the camera.  

Iran stepped out of line, and for that they should be punished. Besides, every time we buy a barrel of oil from the Iranians, it goes to fund their research for nuclear weapons, advanced missiles, or something of the like.

If those sailors were Canadian would you just sit back and say meh, they need to brush up on their navigation skills? No, you would want to take all possible actions to get them home safely.

If you support the enemy(hardcore theocratic regime) holding our allies from simply trying to train Iraqi police officers, whose side are you really on?

Military Brat,

Militaries should not be conducting combat operations, armed training missions, etc, uninvited in the sovereign territory or waters of another nation.  

This situation could probably have been better handled by the Iranians, and there likely is a certain amount of "dick stretching" and getting even for political issues of the recent past.

However, slapping sanctions and dropping bombs is not going to get anyones troops back any faster, in fact it will likely slow down the whole process.   Remember the old   adage of military force being an extension of diplomacy, or politics by another means.   Let diplomacy run its course in the short term.

I have a hard time believing this is the same Military Brat who was calling down Ralph Peters as "hate literature".   He never stated it is now time to bomb all Arabs, however you certainly wish to bomb the Persians.

I think that in Iran we have a very significant future ally, once they slip the bonds of the relatively unpopular theocratic regime.   It would not be wise to get the vast majority of Iranians united into hating the West, when right now they appear to admire the west and wish to be finished with the regime of the "mad mullahs".

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Just as a side note there, Military Brat, I wish you would put your age in your profile so that I could tell if I'm arguing a point with an adult or a 13 year old kid who has'nt ventured out of Mommy's womb yet and has no idea of the shitstorm the actions  he is proposing would cause.

 

[NavyGrunt]

I just once again want to distance myself from the idea of "military action". Im not sure what the answer is to this problem. All I know is it could have been handled better. I dont know how exactly but thats why im an Able Seaman. I do what Im told. I don't tell others what to do.

I just hope that the Iranians handle this wisely.(and to a lesser extent the British as well.)

Also- This waterway is very narrow and the Iranians know that for the last while the Brits have been patrolling it looking for insurgents moving weapons. I believe (the following is Opinion) that the Brits accidentally crossed over the disputed boundries and the Iranians took advantage of this. Anyone who has been the Cox/n of a small boat will tell you that on a narrow waterway in reasonably bad weather you can get off course by quite a bit and not realize.

 

[Infanteer]

Military Brat, you must be a charmer at the Risk board, maybe you should stick to it.

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

Having sailed off of Iran for 2 tours I can say I can understand the Iranians point of view. Its hammered home that of all the nations there, you do not cross into their territory as they aggressively patrol and will defend it. Unless that is only the right of Western Nations (which seems to be Military Brats idea). If the Brits were where they were not suppose to be then they don't have a legal leg to stand on, that being said with Tehran in contact with London so quickly after the incident,all this will be will be posturing an a chance for Iran to score propaganda points.

Well put Rope Tech and very true.....narrow stretches of water is ambiguous at best.

 

[NavyGrunt]

You're the man whos been there EX. Id have to say that you would know better than I. As for the right of Iranians to patrol their boundries I agree. They have every right to board, seize, and detain any person in their own waters. I wouldnt want anyone taking that right from us. I just think that Iran didn't have to do what they did. I mean really the only reason they still have a land to defend is because of the west and europe.(and the Aussies, Wes calm down >)

Mind you Id be a little weary of a small boat with armed men...even small arms....in my zone.

As a side note military brat some wise advice to follow would be- open eyes, shut mouth. Thats what I was told in BMQ and its good advice. You'll avoid all the belt fed cock of the military if you watch and learn from everyone who has gone and done before. When a man makes a mistake watch and learn, when they do something right watch and learn. Someday it'll be your turn to talk- but until then become preoccupied with learning, so when you do get your chance, you dont put your foot in your mouth.

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

Well you have to look at it this way...who in the UK uses C7s/M16s? SAS and SBS supposedly do, so the Iranians are going to make the most of this.

 

[Military Brat]

I'm sure the Iranians are overjoyed with such an overwhelming response by you guys to defend their political system and it's decisions. The Iranians finance terror groups like Hezbollah, and reportedly are backing the Iraqi resistence to the Americans.

devil39, I never advocated bombing every Arab in Iran. I advocated punishing the Iranian regime for stepping out of line. Wether you think they stepped out of line or not, that is really up to you. But I admire the Iranian people, I think they are brave for wanting reform, for wanting to distance themselves from a theocratic regime but they can't do it alone. They need help from outsiders(British, American, etc.) to help them topple their government.

Ex-Dragoon, I never said patrolling waters should be a right of only Western nations. I just think the Iranians went overboard here, they didn't need to detain a patrol boat that was simply training Iraqi police officers.

I prefer to stand with our longtime ally, the British, rather than defending the actions of a rogue state like Iran. The choice is really yours, you can continue to defend the Iranian theocratic regime, or you can defend the British democracy.

BTW, I prefer to debate the issues, rather than resort to namecallling. Maybe some of you will do the same?

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

Read what you like Military Brat...I do not support the Iranian Goverment so please do not say I do. I do support the right of a nation to protect itself and its territorial integrity. I hear it all the time from people who think we should start sinking Spanish or other nations fishing boats because they are in violation of our territorial waters. Tehran is making a propaganda point.