Liberal Minority Government 2019 - ????

[Jarnhamar]

There was no majority in the last election.  There was a plurality.

Right, my mistake.

Would it be accurate to say that despite some CPC members voting for Bernie's PPC and despite NDP (and perhaps others) voting stratigically for the Liberals to block the CPC, the CPC still had the most votes?

 

[dapaterson]

The CPC received more votes than any other party, but did not receive a majority of votes.

In a proportional representation system, that would have translated into a plurality of seats; in a riding based system, it highlights the inefficiency of their vote distribution, and a need to appeal to groups outside Alberta and Saskatchewan.

 

[brihard]

Right, my mistake.

Would it be accurate to say that despite some CPC members voting for Bernie's PPC and despite NDP (and perhaps others) voting stratigically for the Liberals to block the CPC, the CPC still had the most votes?

I got curious and looked at the impact PPC made. Assuming every PPC vote came directly from the CPC, had PPC not existed, CPC would have had 6 more seats- that is to say, PPC can be fairly credited with having probably cost 6 seats in the election. I think all 6 went Liberal, but I no longer recall 100%. In any case, even had all six of those seats gone CPC it wouldn't have even impacted the balance of power.

PPC were a pressure relief for some of the crazies, but had zero impact on the result in terms of what each party can do in Parliament. Any one of the opposition parties would still suffice to prop up the minority government.

 

[stellarpanther]

Except their promise to reform the electoral process, of course. :nod:

I might be wrong but wasn't that something they talked about 6 years ago?  I don't think they continued saying they were going to do that while campaigning in the last election.

 

[stellarpanther]

I definitely think you could find a 2nd career with the LPC after you retired. Good luck with your new party status

Thank you  ;D

 

[brihard]

I might be wrong but wasn't that something they talked about 6 years ago?  I don't think they continued saying they were going to do that while campaigning in the last election.

Correct. They made the promise, then abandoned it when they got elected the first time, then stayed mute on it when they ran for reelection.

 

[stellarpanther]

This is your fallback position every time that you face criticism or feedback from this forum. You are entitled to an opinion, just as others are entitled to challenge it. You have made your partisan leanings known. Opinion is different from informed opinion.

Good, have you seen this? Maybe it will change your comments.

https://nationalpost.com/news/world/trudeau-runs-afoul-of-federal-ethics-rules-yet-again-missing-deadline-for-financial-statement

Considering most of us don't know each other, none of us really have any idea whether or not an opinion is informed based on what they post here.  What I don't like is that some people seem to feel others are wrong for their personal opinion on certain topics.
From a work perspective, I do my job and often get praise regardless of my opinions that I sometimes share at work.  As one of my CWO's once told me.  As long as I do my job and do as I'm instructed, that's fine.  I remember one conversation ending with, "you'd be shocked about some of my personal believes about all the stupidity we have around here", he gave a wink and that was that.  That happened about 5 years or so ago.

 

[Weinie]

Considering most of us don't know each other, none of us really have any idea whether or not an opinion is informed based on what they post here.  What I don't like is that some people seem to feel others are wrong for their personal opinion on certain topics.
From a work perspective, I do my job and often get praise regardless of my opinions that I sometimes share at work.  As one of my CWO's once told me.  As long as I do my job and do as I'm instructed, that's fine.  I remember one conversation ending with, "you'd be shocked about some of my personal believes about all the stupidity we have around here", he gave a wink and that was that.  That happened about 5 years or so ago.

If you feel you should get praise on this forum regardless of your opinions, you are either dangerously naive, or do not understand the nature of debate. War stories aside, your premise was that the WE fiasco was as a result of poor judgement. Most on this forum disagree, citing a demonstrated record of ethical shortcomings by the current PM. Your sources on how you formed your opinion are scant, while others have pointed to real, historical, in Hansard, censoring of the PM by the Ethics Commissioner.

 

[RangerRay]

Lots of similarities between Trudeau and Trump. Both are privileged and entitled and have no idea how common folk live. Both are ethically challenged, to say the least. Both vomit out word salad that is nonsensical. Both view opposition as illegitimate. Both favour highly centralized executive power (just like every PM since PET). Both believe rules don’t apply to them. The only real difference is one is more photogenic than the other.

 

[RangerRay]

I don't like the CPC foreign policy, IMO they seem to always kiss up to the United States and do whatever they want.

But the Liberal foreign policy of grabbing our ankles and saying to China “Thank you sir, may I have another!” is better?

 

[OldSolduer]

But the Liberal foreign policy of grabbing our ankles and saying to China “Thank you sir, may I have another!” is better?

There is an undercurrent of anti USA Sentiment and all things American in Canada and there always has been.

Our largest trading partner and the longest undefended border in the world, but we as a nation choose to look down our noses at them and presume to lecture America on how it should act on the world stage.

Maybe we should stop the holier than thou attitude and work with them.

I love your comment btw RangerRay

 

[BeyondTheNow]

Considering most of us don't know each other, none of us really have any idea whether or not an opinion is informed based on what they post here. What I don't like is that some people seem to feel others are wrong for their personal opinion on certain topics.
From a work perspective, I do my job and often get praise regardless of my opinions that I sometimes share at work.  As one of my CWO's once told me.  As long as I do my job and do as I'm instructed, that's fine.  I remember one conversation ending with, "you'd be shocked about some of my personal believes about all the stupidity we have around here", he gave a wink and that was that.  That happened about 5 years or so ago.

You’re correct. That’s why you’ll note that the majority of our regular users can debate relatively contentious topics without resorting to the ‘it’s my opinion and I’m entitled to it’ angle. (How many other users have you seen on this site lately resort to that manner of justification when their views are questioned?) Rather, they’ve built up a substantial reputation of knowing their facts and forming their opinions based off multiple reputable and easily searchable sources, substantial professional experience which they’ve shared in specific instances, or have referred to in the past. They’ve also routinely proven that their judgement and advice is sound and can be relied upon. This community has learned over time who’s informed and who still has learning to do.

I’ve personally noted that you’ve been making a concerted effort to think of your responses and to remain open to differing points of view recently. But Wienie is not out of place by pointing out your manner of replies to others lately when challenged in threads with more complex content. ‘It’s my opinion and I’m entitled to it’ simply isn’t a reasonable and valid response. It’s a defensive reaction to being challenged.

Many users are engaging with you, showing patience and simply expecting you to match the level of tone, discussion and content that they’re bringing to the table. That’s not an unreasonable expectation.

 

[stellarpanther]

If you feel you should get praise on this forum regardless of your opinions, you are either dangerously naive, or do not understand the nature of debate. War stories aside, your premise was that the WE fiasco was as a result of poor judgement. Most on this forum disagree, citing a demonstrated record of ethical shortcomings by the current PM. Your sources on how you formed your opinion are scant, while others have pointed to real, historical, in Hansard, censoring of the PM by the Ethics Commissioner.

Did you hear me asking for praise on this forum?  No and you won't.  As far as if people disagreeing with me, why would I even care especially since I don't even know any of you.  There is either a big misunderstanding here or you are turning this into something it's not.  One thing I am curious about though is whether or not you've ever looked at Reddit?  I don't have an account there but I've looked at a few posts and that place makes some of my opinions look timid.
Either way, I'm not here looking for praise or people to agree with me because just as many of the posters here may disagree with my believes, I am just as strongly opposed to many of the opinions I read here and the only difference is I don't criticize someone for them and certainly don't spend even 2 seconds to try to play gottcha games like a few here do.

 

[stellarpanther]

I’ve personally noted that you’ve been making a concerted effort to think of your responses and to remain open to differing points of view recently. But Wienie is not out of place by pointing out your manner of replies to others lately when challenged in threads with more complex content. ‘It’s my opinion and I’m entitled to it’ simply isn’t a reasonable and valid response. It’s a defensive reaction to being challenged.

Many users are engaging with you, showing patience and simply expecting you to match the level of tone, discussion and content that they’re bringing to the table. That’s not an unreasonable expectation.

You right that I have been making an effort to think my thoughts through and I sometimes I go back and reword a post.  I like to debate certain topics that I feel strong about and ask questions about other topics that I may have minimal knowledge about but am still curious.  I also try not to insult any poster for their opinion and beliefs but I will admit that maybe at times, I'm a little thin skinned when I take something as criticism,  Politics both Canada, US and Internationally is an area I've had interest in since I was a teenager and I feel strongly about my position and sometimes get carried away.

 

[Good2Golf]

I might be wrong but wasn't that something they talked about 6 years ago?  I don't think they continued saying they were going to do that while campaigning in the last election.

No, you’re right. I thought it was still in the Red Book in2019, just unspoken, but it was removed as a campaign item. Maybe they should put it back in.  They had a majority in 2015 with it.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Many people have given reasons why they don't like the Liberals, I don't like the CPC foreign policy, IMO they seem to always kiss up to the United States and do whatever they want.  I don't want us joining every misguided war the US gets into and Cons have never seen one they don't want to be a part of.  No thank you, and that's whether I'm still serving or not.

Can you provide some examples of this please ?

Just wondering if this was lost in the chaffe... I am pretty paitent though.

 

[stellarpanther]

WRT to foreign policy, the Liberals as everyone knows allowed several Syrian refugees to enter Canada, the CPC stated they were against that.
- The CPC wants a get tough approach with China just as Trump has done, if Trudeau would have done this, I don't think we would have received a lot of the PPE we did. 

- We shouldn't suck up to China and we're not IMO, but taking a tough approach with China is not in our best interests, especially now,

- Trudeau has stated that he will not recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel as Trump has done, the Cons have said they would.

Since Harper, Canada seems to have taken on more of a role of peace making or even war fighting as opposed to Peacekeeping, Libya comes to mind.  Over the years, Canada had developed a strong and respected reputation around the world.  Talking to a couple European friends, we don't have that same level of respect like we used to and part of it is because we are looked at as going along with the U.S. on everything instead of coming up with our own opinions.  The decision on Huawei will be interesting but my money is that Canada will cave into U.S. pressure just as the UK ended up doing.

There's also other things I don't like between the 2 party's.  Trudeau is in favor of foreign aid, the Cons have stated they would reduce it. 

The Cons are just way to far to the right for me.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Let's see: NORAD was negotiated and decided under Louis St-Laurent, a Liberal. St-Laurent was the same PM who had answered the American's call to provide Canadian forces for the Korean War. PM Chretien (I believe he was a Liberal too, but I could be wrong /SARC OFF) committed Canada beside the US in Afghanistan, and was also the PM who greatly increased our commitment there in order to be unable to provide any force for the IRAQ war. All of these were made by the Liberal PM's without consulting Parliament.

The only wars a Conservative PM chose to join were, meanwhile, (1) the First Gulf War where PM Mulroney accepted to participate in the American led coalition to liberate Koweit from Saddam's invasion, an operation authorized by the UN under it's charter obligation to defend member countries' territorial integrity; and, (2) PM Harper's decisions to continue Canada's participation in Afghanistan and to provide some forces to participate in operations against ISIS. However, in PM Harper's case, he had the matters debated in Parliament before any final decision was made.

As regards the Americans, it is important to remember that our joint defence of North America is a simple and logical result of our shared geography, history (recent one anyway) and political systems. For the same reasons, except geography but adding economics, our national interests nearly align most of the time, which again makes it logical that we would be found taking the same view and approaches to most international matters.

 

[Stoker]

WRT to foreign policy, the Liberals as everyone knows allowed several Syrian refugees to enter Canada, the CPC stated they were against that.
- The CPC wants a get tough approach with China just as Trump has done, if Trudeau would have done this, I don't think we would have received a lot of the PPE we did. 

- We shouldn't suck up to China and we're not IMO, but taking a tough approach with China is not in our best interests, especially now,

- Trudeau has stated that he will not recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel as Trump has done, the Cons have said they would.

Since Harper, Canada seems to have taken on more of a role of peace making or even war fighting as opposed to Peacekeeping, Libya comes to mind.  Over the years, Canada had developed a strong and respected reputation around the world.  Talking to a couple European friends, we don't have that same level of respect like we used to and part of it is because we are looked at as going along with the U.S. on everything instead of coming up with our own opinions.  The decision on Huawei will be interesting but my money is that Canada will cave into U.S. pressure just as the UK ended up doing.

There's also other things I don't like between the 2 party's.  Trudeau is in favor of foreign aid, the Cons have stated they would reduce it. 

The Cons are just way to far to the right for me.

You mean China the country where the virus originated and the virus China wasn't upfront to the world about having until months later. Or China the country Trudeau sent planeloads of PPE to or China that sent defective PPE back to Canada. Perhaps if China was a decent world nation they would of warned the world sooner and we wouldn't need that much PPE from China in the first place.

 

[Halifax Tar]

WRT to foreign policy, the Liberals as everyone knows allowed several Syrian refugees to enter Canada, the CPC stated they were against that.
- The CPC wants a get tough approach with China just as Trump has done, if Trudeau would have done this, I don't think we would have received a lot of the PPE we did. 

- We shouldn't suck up to China and we're not IMO, but taking a tough approach with China is not in our best interests, especially now,

- Trudeau has stated that he will not recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel as Trump has done, the Cons have said they would.

Since Harper, Canada seems to have taken on more of a role of peace making or even war fighting as opposed to Peacekeeping, Libya comes to mind.  Over the years, Canada had developed a strong and respected reputation around the world.  Talking to a couple European friends, we don't have that same level of respect like we used to and part of it is because we are looked at as going along with the U.S. on everything instead of coming up with our own opinions.  The decision on Huawei will be interesting but my money is that Canada will cave into U.S. pressure just as the UK ended up doing.

There's also other things I don't like between the 2 party's.  Trudeau is in favor of foreign aid, the Cons have stated they would reduce it. 

The Cons are just way to far to the right for me.

Was that meant to be the reply too:

Can you provide some examples of this please ?

Just wondering if this was lost in the chaffe... I am pretty paitent though.

 

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