Liberal Minority Government 2019 - ????

[Humphrey Bogart]

You are echoing me. 

The danger we are running into now is that essentially two provinces are deciding the political fate of the country.  And this where I am envious of the US Electoral College as it seem to try to ensure that regions (concerns) cannot simply ignore others (concerns) because of population size and willful ignorance.  This is my elementary understanding, and I stand to be corrected.

This country is in dire need of electoral reform or at a minimum a redistribution of the seats.  Ont and Que should be power houses but should not be allowed to hold the balance of power.  It needs to be distributed equally to ensure all regions are relevant and represented.  The Bloq earned only 1.3 million votes vs the NDP 2.9 million and still got more seats.  This a gross misjustice in our electoral system; and its a glowing example of how one region is allowed to dominate others.

The Bloc only ran 78 candidates while the NDP ran 338.  Bloc votes are nearly twice as efficient.

The Bloc literally embody the spirit of what our Parliament was designed for.  They are a regional party with regional issues and play to that strength.

It's not 1 election, it's 338 elections.

 

[mariomike]

The danger we are running into now is that essentially two provinces are deciding the political fate of the country. 

Then let the GTA, and other big Canadian cities, become provinces.

City-state provinces in Canada? Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver 
https://navy.ca/forums/threads/124115.0
7 pages.

I am envious of the US Electoral College as it seem to try to ensure that regions (concerns) cannot simply ignore others (concerns) because of population size and willful ignorance. 

It's great for those who get a kick out of seeing the minority of Americans wielding power over the majority.

The majority of Americans have voted against the Republicans in six of the last seven presidential elections. That does not include the 2018 Midterm, or the election in two weeks.

As for, "Who cares?"

He does,

The electoral college is a disaster for a democracy.
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/266038556504494082

This country is in dire need of electoral reform or at a minimum a redistribution of the seats. 

Electoral Reform
https://navy.ca/forums/threads/25692.0
42 pages.

You seem to want to further reduce the influence of areas that are already underrepresented.

:goodpost:

 

[Halifax Tar]

So you oppose majority rule?  A vote in Labrador is worth five votes in Niagara Falls.  How is that fair or just?

Manitoba and Saskatchewan have the same number of seats, but a big population difference.  How is that fair?

You seem to want to further reduce the influence of areas that are already underrepresented.

The Bloc only ran 78 candidates while the NDP ran 338.  Bloc votes are nearly twice as efficient.

The Bloc literally embody the spirit of what our Parliament was designed for.  They are a regional party with regional issues and play to that strength.

It's not 1 election, it's 338 elections.

Not at all.  I want all regions to be able to bring their concerns forward in elections and have equal ability to be represented.  Right now you can almost disregard areas outside of "the center". 

An area that has a higher population does not make their electoral concerns/issues correct or more important, nor does it entitle dominance of another region or peoples.

Right now our system does not represent Canadians well enough and that is where I think it needs to go.  For the good or bad of our current political parties.  Canada above all else.

Some excellent articles on how our last election may have looked had the Libs followed through on there Electoral Reform promise. 

https://ici.radio-canada.ca/info/2019/elections-federales/mode-scrutin-proportionnelle-mixte-compensatoire/index-en.html

https://theconversation.com/what-the-canadian-election-results-would-have-looked-like-with-electoral-reform-125848

https://www.macleans.ca/politics/ottawa/who-wins-election-2019-under-a-ranked-ballot-system/

 

[dapaterson]

Calgary is about the same population as NL and NB combined, yet has fewer seats in Parliament and less voice, as they are municipal, not provincial.

Shouldn't we address that problem - urban voters are discriminated against in the current model.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Calgary is about the same population as NL and NB combined, yet has fewer seats in Parliament and less voice, as they are municipal, not provincial.

Shouldn't we address that problem - urban voters are discriminated against in the current model.

Why does it have to be one VS the other.  Why not find or create a model that allows both equal voice for their concerns as possible ?

I say again, higher population does not equate to higher priority problems.  It just equates to more voices.

 

[Good2Golf]

Some excellent articles on how our last election may have looked had the Libs followed through on there Electoral Reform promise. 

https://ici.radio-canada.ca/info/2019/elections-federales/mode-scrutin-proportionnelle-mixte-compensatoire/index-en.html

https://theconversation.com/what-the-canadian-election-results-would-have-looked-like-with-electoral-reform-125848

https://www.macleans.ca/politics/ottawa/who-wins-election-2019-under-a-ranked-ballot-system/

...which is likely why they didn’t keep their promise made during Their campaigning in 2015. :nod:

 

[mariomike]

Shouldn't we address that problem - urban voters are discriminated against in the current model.

May not be popular with some. But, I believe that is a "good idea". 

 

[GR66]

Not at all.  I want all regions to be able to bring their concerns forward in elections and have equal ability to be represented.  Right now you can almost disregard areas outside of "the center". 

Gee....if only there was some element of the Canadian parliamentary system that was designed to represent each of the Provinces/Regions in a more equitable manner....cough...Senate...cough.

An effective Senate would go a long way to making the less populous regions feel better represented in Ottawa. 

I think it might have been Edward Campbell  :dunno:. that may have previously mentioned the idea of having the Senate seats distributed by means of proportional party representation based on the outcome of the various Provincial elections.  That to me would make a lot of sense and make Senators less beholden to the Federal political parties and more focused on representing the needs of their home Provinces.

:2c:

 

[Halifax Tar]

Gee....if only there was some element of the Canadian parliamentary system that was designed to represent each of the Provinces/Regions in a more equitable manner....cough...Senate...cough.

An effective Senate would go a long way to making the less populous regions feel better represented in Ottawa. 

I think it might have been Edward Campbell  :dunno:. that may have previously mentioned the idea of having the Senate seats distributed by means of proportional party representation based on the outcome of the various Provincial elections.  That to me would make a lot of sense and make Senators less beholden to the Federal political parties and more focused on representing the needs of their home Provinces.

:2c:

Excellent post.  Thank you, I had never thought of that. 

 

[Jarnhamar]

Des millions pour un ex-députéLa firme de l’ancien député libéral Frank Baylis profite des retombées d’un contrat de 237 millions$

https://www.journaldequebec.com/2020/10/21/des-millions-pour-un-ex-depute?fbclid=IwAR0H9Pa3ECE0hmB88fhBOHhCWP_Rz1fXsYqhfuC2nSqBGfL-eXilQe3pSK4


-FTI Professional Grade was formed just seven days before securing the $ 237 million contract.

-non-competitive contract 



If I was the LPC I wouldn't want an anti-corruption committee snooping around the Covid19 books either.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Now is not the time to have the Liberals lose and election.  They need to sit in this mess for 2 more terms.  Let them truly display their colors, and let Canadians truly see them.  And until this pandemic flattens out and begins to recede an election would simply refocus our efforts from where they need to be!

I get the desire to let them sit in the mess they made and deal with it for a couple years but that's not punishing them. They're still getting their pay checks and their fat pensions. They're still making their contacts with the business world and giving their friends contracts setting themselves up for their departure from politics.


It's like if you had an unethical toxic ships captain or unit CO and suggest they stay in command for another 2 or 3 years to really show everyone their true colours. It's the troops that pay the price not the leadership.

 

[Halifax Tar]

I get the desire to let them sit in the mess they made and deal with it for a couple years but that's not punishing them. They're still getting their pay checks and their fat pensions. They're still making their contacts with the business world and giving their friends contracts setting themselves up for their departure from politics.


It's like if you had an unethical toxic ships captain or unit CO and suggest they stay in command for another 2 or 3 years to really show everyone their true colours. It's the troops that pay the price not the leadership.

I hear you and I can rationalize your example.  I just don't want the Cons to win and then be blamed for having to fix this and cuts and work it will take. 

 

[Haggis]

And, thanks to the NDP, the Liberals survive a bit longer.

This is probably best in the short term as they are the only party ready to fight an election campaign right now and they are polling in weak majority territory.  Let them screw up and maybe slide a bit lower in the polls first while the opposition parties build their war chests.

 

[Halifax Tar]

And, thanks to the NDP, the Liberals survive a bit longer.

This is probably best in the short term as they are the only party ready to fight an election campaign right now and they are polling in weak majority territory.  Let them screw up and maybe slide a bit lower in the polls first while the opposition parties build their war chests.

I dont think the NDP will let them fail at this point.  They are in shambles financially, with leadership and membership.  I am not convinced they will exist past the next election.  Combine all that and with the Liberals preforming a hostile take over of the NDP platform and they really have no reason to exist.  The NDP are in survival mode.

 

[SupersonicMax]

I truly think a majoritarian system would be the closest to fairness.  Yes, a little more difficult to manage but in this day and age, there is no reason not to do this.  Ask people to rank each candidates in their riding.  At least each candidate (and the governing party) would be chosen through a majority (and the wins by a landslide would have a bigger impact on the outcome than now). 

 

[dapaterson]

Riding based single-transferable vote still doesn't provide for any sort of strong regional voice, which I think is what Halifax Tar is talking about.  The initial bicameral design of Canada's Parliament was partially intended to provide that through the second, landed, selected (not elected) house, the Senate.

 

[CBH99]

I hear you and I can rationalize your example.  I just don't want the Cons to win and then be blamed for having to fix this and cuts and work it will take.

Due to Covid, lockdowns, CERB, etc etc - I think may well be the first time in 'my memory' that a government could propose reasonable cuts to this & that to balance the books, and not face an immediate public bashlash.

Like you though, I don't want another political party suffering the inevitable disapproval for cuts, when they are just inheriting a mess & trying to fix it.


:2c:

 

[Kat Stevens]

Due to Covid, lockdowns, CERB, etc etc - I think may well be the first time in 'my memory' that a government could propose reasonable cuts to this & that to balance the books, and not face an immediate public bashlash.

Like you though, I don't want another political party suffering the inevitable disapproval for cuts, when they are just inheriting a mess & trying to fix it.


:2c:

Then the current clown college we refer to as our government will be in power for ever. As long as they have our credit card, they're going to spend us into the poor house. People wonder how Venezuela went from a thriving economy to what it is today? Just. Like. This. Eventually someone has to shut down the party, piss on the campfire, and call it a night.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

We will see how the Liberals and their NDP puppy respond to the next assault.

https://www.nationalobserver.com/2020/10/22/news/second-confidence-showdown-liberal-minority-could-be-way

 

[Jarnhamar]

Proud to be Canadian moment.