Logistic Vehicle Modernization Project - Replacing everything from LUVW to SHLVW

[Eaglelord17]

Where are you going to get "secure" Canadians to do the maintenance work if they don't exist in the civilian world?

All very well calling for more uniformed Canadians to do the service but qualified techs do not seem to exist. Just like qualified sailors.

...

If people to repar kit can't be found then don't repair kit. Buy disposable kit in abundance. And don't put crews inside them.

It’s called training, if you can’t find what you need naturally you make it.

Infantry doesn’t naturally exist in the civilian world yet we somehow make them too.

Techs can be the same way, the only issue is it takes longer to make a tech than a infanteer. 4+ years working on equipment/training to make a tradesman civvy side. We add a bunch of military stuff in there too so to reach the same proficiency your likely looking at 6 years to the same level as your average red seal at fixing things.

It also doesn’t fit as well with our rank progression system because we expect a Cpl to be fully capable on the working side and any rank after that they start moving them out of the trade side of things into leadership/planning a whole other beast.

A two year college course doesn’t cut it for knowledge, thats the opener for most people learning how to actually do their job.

 

[Brad Sallows]

A two year college course doesn’t cut it for knowledge, thats the opener for most people learning how to actually do their job.

This is where long-term strategic thinking enters.

Canada should not only plan to be in the same kind of position the US was relative to the other belligerents (all sides) in WW II, but plan to be running in that direction before widespread hostilities begin. Capable of manufacturing complex equipment at scale. Lots of commonality, reducing complexity for suppliers and maintainers. A "so what" for the latter is that it doesn't take two years to train a heavy equipment mechanic to service a handful of different types.

Whether the peacetime force meets these aspirations is less critical than knowing in advance what a wartime force will do. As each fleet enters service and experience is gained, point to selected ones and say "that's our next candidate for wartime production for that capability".

 

[Kirkhill]

It’s called training, if you can’t find what you need naturally you make it.

Infantry doesn’t naturally exist in the civilian world yet we somehow make them too.

Techs can be the same way, the only issue is it takes longer to make a tech than a infanteer. 4+ years working on equipment/training to make a tradesman civvy side. We add a bunch of military stuff in there too so to reach the same proficiency your likely looking at 6 years to the same level as your average red seal at fixing things.

It also doesn’t fit as well with our rank progression system because we expect a Cpl to be fully capable on the working side and any rank after that they start moving them out of the trade side of things into leadership/planning a whole other beast.

A two year college course doesn’t cut it for knowledge, thats the opener for most people learning how to actually do their job.

I agree that people improve with time and experience.
But most mechanics tend to the younger end of the spectrum and you want them to be useful as soon as you open the box.
We have trades schools. Agreed.
What we don't seem to have is people willing to enter them in the numbers we need.

 

[Eaglelord17]

I agree that people improve with time and experience.
But most mechanics tend to the younger end of the spectrum and you want them to be useful as soon as you open the box.
We have trades schools. Agreed.
What we don't seem to have is people willing to enter them in the numbers we need.

Number one thing holding people back currently is inability to get a apprenticeship. Lots of people want to do the training, actually getting to that point is hard.

The amount of people I have met willing to do a apprenticeship is much greater than those who actually end up doing one.

 

[FJAG]

There are several good points above that need addressing.

1) to get candidates make their education/training free and locate it in their own communities (that means the larger urban centre community colleges) tie that to obligatory terms of service with the RegF or PRes followed by the SuppRes;

2) ensure that the education and training not only makes them proficient military techs but also gives them a red seal for the trade on civvy street;

3) do winter courses at community colleges (with no pay) and full summer employment (with pay) converting to military equipment;

4) after graduation employ them full-time time for a year or two - again in their home communities. That gets them from apprentice to journeyman status while fixing stuff for the military;

5) do not expect them all to want full-time careers with the military. Work on the presumption that you might get two or three years of full-time service, maybe three years reserve service and three years of SuppRes out of them. That means readjusting how the shop floor operates as between long-service supervisors and on-floor labour. All that means is that the system must work on volume training in order to meet current demands and to also build a competent work force for mobilization.

The aim is to leverage large numbers people who do not want to go far from their homes and families and who do want the training and experience to later get a good paying civilian career. You do this in order to create a competent (if not expert) workforce that is sufficient to meet peacetime demands and also wartime expansion. Motivation and throughput are the keys. You need to structure everything else around that.

 

[KevinB]

CAF VOR rates are driven by institutional decisions not to resource spares. Just like the ammunition holdings measured in hours, not days or months, are driven by institutional decisions not to resource the ammunition program.

As long as positions requiring sustainment knowledge and experience are instead filled by combat arms GOFOs the CAF will have these problems. It's like filling the J6 with an infantry officer... When command and management of the CAF are patronage spoils for the various factions in the CAF, this is the outcome.

It isn’t just Cbt Arms GOFO’s.
The CA has rarely made people pay for bad decisions.
And BG level training allowed for abysmal VOR rates to be hidden.

Unless you treat your entire Army like it needs to be ready to go out the door at a moments notice, you won’t put the proper effort into it.

Youre very quick to wave off the fact the Ukrainians genuinely really like thr product they get with Roshel, especially since it got the upgraded suspension.

I’m also honest enough to know that since the ownership is ethnic Ukrainian, that ‘ties’ go to the runner.

It isn’t Roshel specifically, I despise the entire MRAP armored car concept. It could be a Buffalo , Cougar, Nyala, Bearcat etc.

 

[MilEME09]

It isn’t Roshel specifically, I despise the entire MRAP armored car concept. It could be a Buffalo , Cougar, Nyala, Bearcat etc.

Fair, but it cant be denied its saving lives. In the current environment it definitely has its place, just not in the F Ech