Operational Service Medals?

[Zoomie]

That has already happened. I received my federal income tax back for that period already. Further to that, on this coming pay, the difference between what we had been paid in RA and the Maximum is being paid to us. HA is also finally being paid

That's what I needed to hear. Time to make some waves

SWA aircraft that overfly Afghanistan are also based within the AOR - same as the Libya campaign.  It seems that the criteria for awarding the GCS is skewed.

 

[eliminator]

Libya OUP NATO medal available for purchase from the manufacture of all NATO medals:
http://www.eekelers-centini.be/catalog/index.php?cPath=29_138_139&language=en&osCsid=bvcetq7br0vf1si7qjl2jrcg92

Denmark is awarding the NATO non article 5 medal with the Libya OUP bar:

And no secret here about the medal requirements:

SHAPE has confirmed the eligibility criteria for the NATO Non-Article V medal for OUP. In order to qualify personnel must have between 23 Mar – 31 Oct 11 completed 30 days’ continuous service or 60 days’ accumulated service under the following circumstances:

(a) Those Forces under NATO command or control, or in support of NATO, whilst deployed in the Joint Operations Area (JOA).

(b) Those Personnel serving exclusively on OUP, whether inside or outside the JOA, under the CJSOR and supported by a formal Transfer of Authority.

(c) Those Alliance personnel serving exclusively on OUP duties in the three HQs supporting OUP: HQ CJTF OUP Naples, HQ MC OUP Naples and HQ CFAC OUP Poggio Renatico.

(d) Those Alliance personnel deployed outside the JOA exclusively in support of OUP.

So, I have a hunch that the CF will follow suit and award this medal, rather than an OSM or even GCS/GSM, since the eligibility requirements of 30 days should capture the vast majority of those who deployed on OP MOBILE.

 

[aesop081]

When i asked the CFCWO 2 weeks ago, no decision had been made.

 

[SupersonicMax]

WTF takes so long, seriously.... They have time to talk about shutting down colour patches, but yet, no time to think about how to grant recognition to their warfighters.... 

This is important for unit morale, getting recognition for the sacrifices made.

 

[aesop081]

This is important for unit morale, getting recognition for the sacrifices made.

I asked exactly that to the CFCWO 2 weeks ago in St-Jean.

From what he told me, the original NATO medal criteria was not acceptable to Canada. NATO came back with a new criteria and decision had to be made if that was now acceptable. He continued by saying that the new NATO criteria may or may not be acceptable to Canada and if so, it will add to the wait as a national gong will have to be designed.

I told him that we were expecting some kind of GCS/GSM combination as was (belatedly) done for OAF.

 

[dimsum]

WTF takes so long, seriously.... They have time to talk about shutting down colour patches, but yet, no time to think about how to grant recognition to their warfighters.... 

Shutting down?  I thought they were out years ago?  And on that note, what's wrong with colour patches anyway?  Most if not all other aircrews have them and if people are whinging about the "tactical" aspect, that's what velcro backing is for. 

But I digress.

 

[eliminator]

-GCS/GSM are awarded for "those who serve/support operations in the presence of an armed enemy." Were the Pro Gaddafi forces considered an enemy? Was it not more along the lines of employing all necessary measures to prevent attacks on the civilian populace?

-OSM is for "those who serve in or provide support to overseas operations and for which no other medals, such as United Nations or NATO medals, are available." So, hard to justify an OSM if the NATO medal meets the requirements for Canada's participation.

 

[George Wallace]

Funny Max.......What was your stance at the time about the people wondering about the medals for Haiti?

 

[SupersonicMax]

I personally don't care for myself, however I can see it being a very good thing for unit morale.  Instilling into the new guys that the unit they are now part of has actually done something great in the not so distant past is something that can motivate those same new guys to work their butts off.

 

[George Wallace]

I personally don't care for myself, however I can see it being a very good thing for unit morale.  Instilling into the new guys that the unit they are now part of has actually done something great in the not so distant past is something that can motivate those same new guys to work their butts off.

Ah!  A 'gong' does all that?  I usually measure people I know by other means than what they may wear on their chest, sleeve, or sash. [Edit to remove rest of sentence.]

Yes, it is nice to have some form of recognition, but with the next generation, as is witnessed today, those will not mean the same sacrifices as what they have made.  You will never have seen the hardship, the horror, etc. that they have.  And so the march goes on; your battles (whatever they may be) and such will never measure up to what the next generation thinks their's are. 

Then again, we have already been down this road on this site before.

 

[Ex Ranger Instructor]

Yes, it is nice to have some form of recognition, but with the next generation, as is witnessed today, those will not mean the same sacrifices as what they have made.  You will never have seen the hardship, the horror, etc. that they have.  And so the march goes on; your battles (whatever they may be) and such will never measure up to what the next generation thinks their's are. 

I'm a latecomer to this discussion and wouldn't post, except for the above quote. A WW II bomber crew might have faced different circumstances of service than a modern RCAF aircrew flying over Libya, but I fail to see how that's relevant to the discussion.  Personnel should be recognized for their operational service. 

 

[jollyjacktar]

Personnel should be recognized for their operational service.

And in a timely fashion too.  L/Gen B. was fetted and fawned over long ago.  The troops should come first.

 

[aesop081]

-GCS/GSM are awarded for "those who serve/support operations in the presence of an armed enemy." Were the Pro Gaddafi forces considered an enemy? Was it not more along the lines of employing all necessary measures to prevent attacks on the civilian populace?

Not that much different than bombing Serbia in 1999 during OP ALLIED FORCE, yet a GCS was issued for that.

 

[NavyShooter]

And in a timely fashion too.  L/Gen B. was fetted and fawned over long ago.  The troops should come first.

THIS.

 

[aesop081]

and such will never measure up to what the next generation thinks their's are. 

Please turn in any medals you have George. NATO, UN, Whatever. You do no deserve medals as your service does not measure up to the vets of WW2.

That doesn't make sense does it.

:

 

[eliminator]

What's nice about GCS/GSM is that they are produced by the mint, engraved with the recipients name, and bear the symbology of our head of state.
While "a medal is a medal", an award emanating from the Crown of Canada is more desirable than an award from an international organization that is simply "adopted" by our system. (at least in my books)

Moreover, the GCS/GSM does a better risk at defining risk/hardship exposure. (Aircrew flying over Libya and ship's company being shot at, versus support crew based in Italy.)

However, since the NATO Libya OUP medal criteria appears to be vague enough to capture most Canadians involved, I can see it being the "simpler" option. As well, Canada has adopted the NATO Non Art5 Africa medal, so the practice of accepting NATO medals is still on the table, even with our recently revised honours system.

 

[Journeyman]

Moreover, the GCS/GSM does a better risk at defining risk/hardship exposure. (Aircrew flying over Libya and ship's company being shot at, versus support crew based in Italy.)

Ahh....so now those petty army "inside/outside the wire" arguments (ad nauseum) seem important? 

.... vague enough to capture most Canadians involved

All-inclusiveness....lest someone's feelings be hurt.  :tempertantrum:


Maybe the left-wing hand-wringers are right -- Canada should go back to just being a UN peacekeeper.....if only because the medals are too challenging for NDHQ.

 

[eliminator]

Ahh....so now those petty army "inside/outside the wire" arguments (ad nauseum) seem important? 
All-inclusiveness....lest someone's feelings be hurt.  :tempertantrum:


Maybe the left-wing hand-wringers are right -- Canada should go back to just being a UN peacekeeper.....if only because the medals are too challenging for NDHQ.

I dont think the issue with the GCS/GSM is inside versus outside the wire, it's more about inside versus outside the country where the hostilities are taking place.

 

[Journeyman]

Obviously the words were too big. Same argument; different perspective.

 

[George Wallace]

What is that Command in Florida, and what medal are they receiving?