Operational Service Medals?

[aesop081]

Those BM-21s did not have the range to hit CHA................

 

[eliminator]

If it's the old Grad they would have around a 22ish km range. How long were they operating in Libyan waters would be something that I would think would need to be determined to award a GCS.

On your article you just posted: "She said HMCS Charlottetown was not hit because the crew considers the enemy's weapons capabilities and sails outside the maximum range."

So would that be operating in a area with armed enemy?

edit to add: I personally know traffic techs who worked in mirage but didnt get their GCS for 10-15 days spent in KAF. Wouldnt the same apply in this case?

Possibly, since 30 days is the req for the GCS. Multiple ships sailing under Op Altair qualified for the GCS-SWA, yet they're operating well outside the effective range of AK-47s?

But trust me, for Op Mobile it's going to be a NATO medal for all which will make awarding much easier, if anything.

 

[NavyShooter]

I don't know if we were in range of the BM-21's....but I guess the newspaper article is the best source for OPEN SOURCE info as to where a ship was conducting OPS....

 

[dogger1936]

I know NATO had been watching the Lybian ships which never put to sea for two months prior to the liberation. Not to mention the RAF took out all the ships prior to the naval arrival to ensure mines were not placed.

Maybe if the ship was involved in some sustained contact which cannot be spoke of a SSM would be the best route?

 

[eliminator]

I know NATO had been watching the Lybian ships which never put to sea for two months prior to the liberation. Not to mention the RAF took out all the ships prior to the naval arrival to ensure mines were not placed.

Maybe if the ship was involved in some sustained contact which cannot be spoke of a SSM would be the best route?

...an SSM would be an interesting route, although it requires a min of 180 days to qualify. Canada will accept the NATO OUP medal for wear, but there will be disappointed recipients who I am sure will be writing memos to institute a GCS/GSM or OSM.

I bet 10 years from now there will be a CANFORGEN calling recipients to exchange their previously awarded NATO OUP medal for a newly approved Canadian award.

 

[Ostrozac]

...an SSM would be an interesting route, although it requires a min of 180 days to qualify.

Length of service for an SSM is whatever it needs to be. The SSM with bar has been awarded for varying minimum durations of service, from 30 days to 4 years. Although I believe that the SSM has been retired/phased out, in favour of the GCS/GSM/OSM systems.

I certainly feel that the Libya mission deserves specific Canadian recognition, rather than simply a NATO medal. I feel that the GCS/GSM would be an appropriate choice. So would minting a Libya Medal (along the lines of the Somalia Medal).

 

[eliminator]

SSM isn't going away. They still award the Ranger bar, Alert bar, and NATO bar, although its now more difficult to meet the NATO bar requirements as they've been revised.

 

[misratah500]

To answer the earlier question of how the navy determines what is operation time. For the Vancouver it was the minute we transitted into the MED. We were in an operation area and were getting 3/1 Pay. We called this the "Big Box", when we got off the coast of Libya we received 4/3 pay. We called this the "little box". So the minute you get inside the MED, your doing time for some medal. It just depends on what command and mission your tasked under.

 

[brihard]

misratah, can you please clarify what you mean by 1/3 and 4/3 pay? Is that risk/hardship?

 

[aesop081]

Is that risk/hardship?

Yes.

 

[dogger1936]

To answer the earlier question of how the navy determines what is operation time. For the Vancouver it was the minute we transitted into the MED. We were in an operation area and were getting 3/1 Pay. We called this the "Big Box", when we got off the coast of Libya we received 4/3 pay. We called this the "little box". So the minute you get inside the MED, your doing time for some medal. It just depends on what command and mission your tasked under.

Thanks for the clarification.

 

[misratah500]

You figure the CFCWO, would have at least an idea of which way the council was swinging in-regards to what medal. But maybe he was just giving out a political answer of "no decision has been made yet".

 

[PuckChaser]

You figure the CFCWO, would have at least an idea of which way the council was swinging in-regards to what medal. But maybe he was just giving out a political answer of "no decision has been made yet".

Or he's arms-length from the process, and is simply just the first person to find out what the committee will decide.

Seriously, whats the big deal with getting a Libya medal RIGHT NOW? How long did it take the OSM to come out and recognize multiple different theatres, some of them more than a decade ago? Or how long it took to recognize multiple AFG tours on the GCS?

Honestly, I see the bigger issue here was with the TF Comd getting recognized 3 separate times before his troops got even a sniff that they'd be getting a medal for the operation.

 

[aesop081]

How long did it take the OSM to come out and recognize multiple different theatres, some of them more than a decade ago? Or how long it took to recognize multiple AFG tours on the GCS?

Poor performance by the system in the past is not a reason to accept poor performance today.

I remember the days where the CF actually managed to present troops with their tour medals while they were still on tour. My second tour, Kosovo, was a roto zero and we still had our NATO medals presented to us well before departure.

I don't care too much about my own medal, but i have troops who are junior enough to barely have one hook now for whom OP MOBILE was a pretty big deal. They certainly deserve to stand proud with their one medal on, just like the rest of us old farts.

 

[brihard]

Poor performance by the system in the past is not a reason to accept poor performance today.

I remember the days where the CF actually managed to present troops with their tour medals while they were still on tour. My second tour, Kosovo, was a roto zero and we still had our NATO medals presented to us well before departure.

I don't care too much about my own medal, but i have troops who are junior enough to barely have one hook now for whom OP MOBILE was a pretty big deal. They certainly deserve to stand proud with their one medal on, just like the rest of us old farts.

Agreed, and well said. There's no reason I can see for it to have taken this long. There are plenty of precedents to go with, and it's not like we're creating an honours *system* from scratch here. I'm pretty sure if the operation itself could be thrown together as quickly as it was, simple recognition for it shouldn't need a team of rocket surgeons to figure out.

 

[NavyShooter]

Honestly, I see the bigger issue here was with the TF Comd getting recognized 3 separate times before his troops got even a sniff that they'd be getting a medal for the operation.

Again....

THIS.

 

[misratah500]

Yeah, what was his awards so far?  Meritorious Service Cross, Legion of Merit (US),  Order of Canada. And the campaign medal when it comes out. Jeez, four medals for one mission. Jeez..

 

[eurowing]

I've been home a year, still waiting on 3 Bars for my GSM.  I did get the medal presented in theatre though.  I'm bettting I am back in KAF before I see the bars.

 

[dapaterson]

It was less than two months from Dieppe to LCol Merritt being gazetted for the Victoria Cross.  The presentation was delayed over two and a half years, though.


And re: the CFCWO: Until the GG has made an announcement, any advice is considered to be a cabinet confidence (treat as secret).  No matter what he does or does not know he is not authorized to release information.

 

[SupersonicMax]

I think the issue we are facing here is closely related to any other issues in the CF.  We get bogged down in the paperwork/admin/technicalities, and in the end, people at the pointy end suffer the consequences of untimely decisions....