Operational Usefullness of Reserve Forces

[jmackenzie_15]

Ive been wondering recently, to what extent are the reserves used during operations overseas? From what I can understand, is that the main battle group is made up of regforce battallions, then they fill up some of the open ends with some reservists to pick up the slack.An example of what Im wondering is, hypothetically, if 3PPCLI and 2RCR went to Iraq, would the the reserve guys be put in the back? Or do they just throw the reserves in right along with the reg force infantry troops as if there were no difference?

Would you actually do the job of an infantryman overseas, or would you clean weapons and work in the lockups during the tour? 

 

[Lost_Warrior]

Reserves go through what is called "work up training" or "pre-deployment training" before going overseas.

This training can last anywhere from 3 months, 6 months, to even a year.  This is to bring them up to speed with the reg force units they will be deploying with.  When reserves go, they do their duty, weather it be engineer, infantry, armour, etc etc.  They dont sit back and do the odd jobs.

 

[dutchie]

Just to add to this....

As has been mentioned in other threads, the initail deployment of Cdn troops to any particular Theatre of Ops is Reg only, and only on subsequest Rotos do Res troops deploy. That usually happens only when the 'heat' has died own a little.

I say 'usually', because I can think of a couple of situations where this was not the case (UNPROFOR/Medak for example), and Res troops found themselves in battle.

 

[jmackenzie_15]

That isnt true either, a sergeant from my unit 1NSH, was on Roto 0, did 3 WEEKS, NO BS, of work up training before he was in Kabul.He was supposed to be an NBCD specialist or something, but ended up being transfered to infantry patrols or something, im not 100% on those specific details, but he WAS on Roto 0, and he DID only do 3 weeks of training before he was gone.

The general feeling around our unit is, and from what our officers and experienced guys tell us, be prepared to go overseas with alot less work up time than 3 months.That, and the reserve units around here seem to be getting used by the RCRs more and more often, which isnt like in the past apparently.I guess RCR generally isnt too friendly to reservists =p any RCRs want to tell me otherwise?  

Someone else said that the reserve units out west were almost used dry by PPCLI.   ???

Seems like anything can happen in the reserves =p

 

[dutchie]

Well, in my experience, Roto 0 is actually the second rotation in theatre.

Secondly, there are exceptions for res not deploying with the initial force, one of those exceptions being specially trained individuals.

Finally, I can't comment on what a particular Sgt in a particualr Res unit out east did or didn't do, but I would be quite surprised if he was on the initial deployment to Afghanistan in a rifle coy.

As fas a work-up - res and reg do the same mission specific work up. If that's 3 months, 3 weeks, 6 months or 1 year, they all do the same. Of course, if someone out there in the know can correct me, please do.

 

[jmackenzie_15]

He was on Roto 0, if thats the second one, my bad =p

He definately was gone for 3 weeks to Ontario.He left for it, came back less than a month later, then was gone to Afghanistan.

 

[Infanteer]

ROTO 0 Op Athena was the first deployment to Kabul.

 

[Lost_Warrior]

Thats strange.  A corporal from my unit did 1 year work up training in ValCartier for the last Bosnia ROTO...and your Sgt did 3 weeks going into a warzone?  Something isn't right there.

 

[jmackenzie_15]

He did it, dont ask me how, I dont run the camp and I have no idea how it works because Ive never been there 
He went, came home, and was gone just like that.Hes a bang on soldier though, one of the best in our unit easily.Maybe that had something to do with it =p.
He told us about this a few months ago.... I cant remember entirely, but he said he was in something called (something like) the peacekeeping centre in Ontario or something.
Id never heard of it before.

 

[McG]

Well, in my experience, Roto 0 is actually the second rotation in theatre.

Roto 0 is the first group on the ground (as at this time, no rotations have occured)
Roto 1 is the second tour (at this time there has been one rotation of troops in theater)

 

[dutchie]

I stand corrected. Thanks.

But this story of the Res Sgt sounds a little, well, 'funny'. Perhaps some miscommunication, misunderstanding, or just plain bs (not on jmackenzie's part of course).

 

[jmackenzie_15]

Im sure from time to time there must be other reservists that get sent away alot quicker than expected... he cant be the only one in Canada =p

Im fairly certain this is where he went before being deployed:

http://www.peaceoperations.org/en/au_mission_history.html


Perhaps because he was originally meant to be an NBCD Specialist was why the time was so short? He always taught NBCD on bmqs for years and was always the guy that threw you around the gas hut =p Im assuming he has some qualifications in that area.


Back on topic, after work up training, reservists assume the exact same jobs as the regforce soldiers? Wouldnt they be put into like.... the least active rifle company or something like that  ???

 

[Infanteer]

When reservist Infantry soldiers fill a 031 spot as an augmentee, then they do the exact same job as their Reg Force brethren will do.  As I remember, it was the same for the Engineers as well. I'm not sure how the CS/CSS world runs reserve augmentations.

 

[McG]

Im fairly certain this is where he went before being deployed:

http://www.peaceoperations.org/en/au_mission_history.html

I don't know who you are talking about, but I'm fairly certain that he actually went here:
http://armyapp.dnd.ca/pstc-cfsp/Default.asp

 

[jmackenzie_15]

yeah your right MCG, my bad 

 

[ArmyRick]

OK, lets sort some things out, troops! I am currently a reservist and have served regular army.. With that being said, what are you thinking "do reservist do the rear echelon stuff" ?
With 3-6 months work up training most reservist are good to go and can be placed right in the heat of the action.
There is nothing magical about the reg force training. They just do it all the time and for the most part stay up to speed on the skills and drills.

Yes there are poor excuses of service members (I will not refer to them as soldiers) in the reserves, but guess what, the reg force have them too. They just hide them better.

So, I think will finish (instead of tearring some people a new a) with this, get the all the facts before you pipe up with comments here.

A big component (especially infantry) to being ready to deploy is what level are you at NOW! Its no good to be highly qualified soldier if you are not physically FIT, situationally aware and competent at your current job skills.

By the way, roto 0 is when the first mission hits the ground (Ihave been on a Roto 0 in the nineties).

 

[jmackenzie_15]

Im curious to know what dictates how much work up time a reserve soldier requires before being good to go.... time in + qualifications + PT level?  ???

 

[dutchie]

The amount of work up is set for the entire Battle Group, and is done for all at once. It's not like Cpl Combat can come in with a week to go and jump onto the Roto because he's so switched on (there are exceptions to this, of course). That I know. The rest of your question (how is the length of work up set) I can only speculate at. If you care to hear my ideas, read below.

Work up is most likely set based on: Deployment date, readiness of Bn slated for deployment, amount of courses needed to staff all positions, number of augmentees (both Res and Reg), amount of mission specific training to be done (language, mission, culture, ROEs, etc) and of course operational requirements (for example -how dire the need is for us to be there right now).

I'm sure others (pbi, dglad, Michael O' Leary, etc) have more to say about this area, but that's my best guesstimate.

 

[jmackenzie_15]

hmmm interesting, thx caesar!

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Caesar,

There were many other Reservists on Roto 0, the 1st one for Athena, also. They ranged from Maj to Tpr, and most ranks in between. Not in hard 031 spots, but they were there. All part of the team, with everyone doing their part. You should research a little more before trying to give out "fact".