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Politics in 2016

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Kilo_302 said:
"I have to leave. I can't hold conversations with potatoes."  You to me, after deciding you disagreed with the points I made. This qualifies as "talking down" yes?

If you're comfortable with only enforcing the rules when it comes to people with whom you disagree, by all means take my privileges away. And then rename the site "conservativeviewpointsonlyarmy.ca"

Dude - all of the above is indicative of the "tone" issue.  I personally think that you are making useful contributions to the discussion, if only because it challenges the confirmation bias that is the norm for most online communities.  I even agree with some of what you are saying, especially with respect to our "deficit fetish".

Having said all of that, your tone can be abrasive.  If you can wind it in a bit, that would be great - I would hate to see your voice silenced.

My  :2c:
 
Kilo_302 said:
"I have to leave. I can't hold conversations with potatoes."  You to me, after deciding you disagreed with the points I made. This qualifies as "talking down" yes?

If you're comfortable with only enforcing the rules when it comes to people with whom you disagree, by all means take my privileges away. And then rename the site "conservativeviewpointsonlyarmy.ca"

I don't recall saying you were a potatoe. At any rate, PPCLI Guy gave you some very sage advice. I suggest you follow it.

---Staff---
 
Recceguy, while I hold absolutely no love for kilo and do not agree with how he goes about stating his "facts" you are splitting hairs. It was quite obvious that you were referring to Kilo as a potato.

I can completely see where you are coming from with the potato comment though, he seems to bounce back and forth between stances depending on what fits into his rhetoric at the moment. I remember him hating on big business before, but look, now they support his viewpoint so they are gods yet again.
 
Everyone's points are well taken and we can move on. Don't like my style? Use the Report to Mod function. This is not the place to discuss this.

---Staff---
 
Flavus101 said:
Recceguy, while I hold absolutely no love for kilo and do not agree with how he goes about stating his "facts" you are splitting hairs. It was quite obvious that you were referring to Kilo as a potato.

I can completely see where you are coming from with the potato comment though, he seems to bounce back and forth between stances depending on what fits into his rhetoric at the moment. I remember him hating on big business before, but look, now they support his viewpoint so they are gods yet again.

Tone aside, I'm not quoting the banks out of some great love for them. Rather, I understand that they serve as a pretty fair barometer for the business class in Canada. They want economic growth too, so when they're saying that going into a deficit in order to provide stimulus is not just acceptable, but even desirable given our current situation, I think it should lend some credibility in the eyes of those who would be inclined to repeat the Conservative mantra of "deficits are bad for the economy no matter what."

This does not mean I support the more odious activities of Canadian banks, nor the role they play in the continued domination of labour and the working Canadian by capital.
 
Perhaps going into a deficit would be beneficial for Canada. The reason I believe that the majority of us are against the idea of a deficit is because of HOW the money is being spent, not necessarily the idea of running a deficit.

I believe you used the term "social infrastructure" a little while ago. While you did not specify exactly what is included in your idea of social infrastructure I believe that I would disagree with a lot of what it contains.
 
We pay more to service the debt than we give to DND per year. Imagine the infrastructure we could buy with $30B a year, that's not being borrowed.

You wouldn't rack up your credit card with no intention to ever pay it off, but some people here think that's a perfectly acceptable way to run a country.
 
Exactly, you sometimes finance certain investments in order to realize return later on.

You should not finance that 60 inch TV that you cannot afford...
 
Sadly Canadian governments of all levels have a long history of funding things like hockey arenas, convention centres and performing arts centres (among other things) as "infrastructure", rather than roads, rails and pipelines. Indeed, many current subnational governments have stated open hostility towards pipelines.

As for how well these "investments" have worked out, I know that the downtown hockey arena bass cost London taxpayers @$4.5 million/year in the interest costs, and the downtown convention centre has never had a year in which it has not received a subsidy (ranging from $1.6 million to $.4 million, depending on the year). The alleged benefits of bringing people and business downtown is also refuted, hilariously enough a city study showed the value of downtown property dropped by almost $70 million in the years after the "infrastructure" was built, and walking along the streets of downtown London is an eerie Potemkin village of storefronts converted to government offices to create the illusion of a busy and energetic core.....

Now multiply that by every Liberal friendly riding across Canada.....
 
Downtown Kingston is a perfect example of that.
 
The problem I have with 'social infrastructure' is the liberals are not defining it. Sunny ways, selfies and trusting someone that has really never worked a day in his life, just because he flips his hair and winks, doesn't cut it anymore.

Working Canadians (especially in Ontario) are getting very, very tired of busting our asses, working to get ahead, only to have the government(s) take more and more, from our dwindling paycheck, and give it to people that won't work, but for some reason, are the darlings of those governments. I can get behind paying for roads, bridges, even pipelines, that's not the problem.

What I'm getting really sick and tired of is a government that keeps reaching in my pocket, taking more, in order to pay for their feel good programs that make people benefiting from that program, more unwilling to work because they are living off more of the workers money.

Taking my money to bribe voters that don't have my interests in mind. Like paying dues to a union so they can support the party that you don't want to vote for.

Working Canadians are tired of being taxed at near fifty percent, with it creeping up past that, to pay for someone to sit on a subway grate and find themselves.

As with the native problem, for example, I didn't create it, it is not my fault and I'm tired of my taxes supporting them to do nothing but help stop progress and fight against my values.......with my money.

I won't accept that I have a white man's burden or guilt. Just like I'm not responsible for the majority of the people that stand outside the liquor store twice a month with the welfare check that I provided.

Trudeau better get his shit together. Working people are mad as hell, and we're not going to take it anymore.

 
recceguy said:
The problem I have with 'social infrastructure' is the liberals are not defining it. Sunny ways, selfies and trusting someone that has really never worked a day in his life, just because he flips his hair and winks, doesn't cut it anymore.

Working Canadians (especially in Ontario) are getting very, very tired of busting our asses, working to get ahead, only to have the government(s) take more and more, from our dwindling paycheck, and give it to people that won't work, but for some reason, are the darlings of those governments. I can get behind paying for roads, bridges, even pipelines, that's not the problem.

What I'm getting really sick and tired of is a government that keeps reaching in my pocket, taking more, in order to pay for their feel good programs that make people benefiting from that program, more unwilling to work because they are living off more of the workers money.

Taking my money to bribe voters that don't have my interests in mind. Like paying dues to a union so they can support the party that you don't want to vote for.

Working Canadians are tired of being taxed at near fifty percent, with it creeping up past that, to pay for someone to sit on a subway grate and find themselves.

As with the native problem, for example, I didn't create it, it is not my fault and I'm tired of my taxes supporting them to do nothing but help stop progress and fight against my values.......with my money.

I won't accept that I have a white man's burden or guilt. Just like I'm not responsible for the majority of the people that stand outside the liquor store twice a month with the welfare check that I provided.

Trudeau better get his crap together. Working people are mad as hell, and we're not going to take it anymore.
your problem is not with trudeau.

It's with politicians.

What you just described has been going on since before pmjt was even born.
 
recceguy said:
The problem I have with 'social infrastructure' is the liberals are not defining it. Sunny ways, selfies and trusting someone that has really never worked a day in his life, just because he flips his hair and winks, doesn't cut it anymore.

Working Canadians (especially in Ontario) are getting very, very tired of busting our asses, working to get ahead, only to have the government(s) take more and more, from our dwindling paycheck, and give it to people that won't work, but for some reason, are the darlings of those governments. I can get behind paying for roads, bridges, even pipelines, that's not the problem.

What I'm getting really sick and tired of is a government that keeps reaching in my pocket, taking more, in order to pay for their feel good programs that make people benefiting from that program, more unwilling to work because they are living off more of the workers money.

Taking my money to bribe voters that don't have my interests in mind. Like paying dues to a union so they can support the party that you don't want to vote for.

Working Canadians are tired of being taxed at near fifty percent, with it creeping up past that, to pay for someone to sit on a subway grate and find themselves.

As with the native problem, for example, I didn't create it, it is not my fault and I'm tired of my taxes supporting them to do nothing but help stop progress and fight against my values.......with my money.

I won't accept that I have a white man's burden or guilt. Just like I'm not responsible for the majority of the people that stand outside the liquor store twice a month with the welfare check that I provided.

Trudeau better get his shit together. Working people are mad as hell, and we're not going to take it anymore.

And you are somehow trying to convince us it is a Liberal fault, federally although you wish wash back and forth from provincial feelings, that Working people are mad? 

You know they have been in just over 100 days, so please; your angst should be directed towards the the Reform Jackals, that wrapped themselves in Conservative wool only to give us a decade of decay.

Please spare me with the Liberal bashing, the CONS have done enough damage to this nation, and the Working people voted them out October 19, 2015!!

 
I'm not blaming liberals. All politicians have a hand in this. The liberals just happen to be the sitting offenders right now. Ontario and Federally.

So you can all sit back and take a breath, put away your torches and pitchforks.

Never mind the 'which side' rhetoric, or all the 'woe is me, he's picking on my party' bullshit. Stick to the problem and try stay on track.

Working people are tired of being fleeced by politicians so they can give our money to gluebags, just because they will vote to keep getting their free money.

Problem is, it isn't free, working people across the country have to do without and can't raise their own standard of living because we're supporting a country of lazy brothers in laws that won't work. 
 
recceguy said:
I'm not blaming liberals. All politicians have a hand in this. The liberals just happen to be the sitting offenders right now. Ontario and Federally.

So you can all sit back and take a breath, put away your torches and pitchforks.

Never mind the 'which side' rhetoric, or all the 'woe is me, he's picking on my party' bullshit. Stick to the problem and try stay on track.

Working people are tired of being fleeced by politicians so they can give our money to gluebags, just because they will vote to keep getting their free money.

Problem is, it isn't free, working people across the country have to do without and can't raise their own standard of living because we're supporting a country of lazy brothers in laws that won't work.

I totally agree with you, the working man is up in arms,and that is why we made change in October.  Unfortunately, cleaning up a ten year mess is not going to happen overnight.

I am just asking that people have a little patience, as things do not happen overnight.

Trust me, I am anxious as well, and tapping my toes but again big job for them.

 
Rifleman62 said:
Voting for Trump are you?  ;D

Not so much Trump, per se, but his idea. Canadians are, traditionally, slow off the mark. We like to watch what's going on and where it's going before we take off our shoes and socks and put a foot in the water.

If Trump pulls this off, and proves to the world that professional politicians are the slaves to big corporate and their lobbyists and that a country can survive and prosper without the anchor of elite professional slugs, the flood gates around the world will open and governed societies are open to huge changes.

Canada just needs the right billionaire, beholden to no one, to take on the parasites that govern us and destroy the symbiotic relationship that they have established in the guts of Canadians.
 
recceguy said:
Not so much Trump, per se, but his idea. Canadians are, traditionally, slow off the mark. We like to watch what's going on and where it's going before we take off our shoes and socks and put a foot in the water.

If Trump pulls this off, and proves to the world that professional politicians are the slaves to big corporate and their lobbyists and that a country can survive and prosper without the anchor of elite professional slugs, the flood gates around the world will open and governed societies are open to huge changes.

Canada just needs the right billionaire, beholden to no one, to take on the parasites that govern us and destroy the symbiotic relationship that they have established in the guts of Canadians.

Wow?

Did we not just experience 10 years of right wing diplomacy, you actually think that is what is going to fix America.

Got to pull out one of my old sayings, but I shall retire to bedlham now after reading that !!!

:-*
 
As expected: of course Trudeau's media advocates spun this by saying that Trudeau's "taking the risk" to take Canada back into deficit was won him a majority mandate in the last election. 

Reuters

Canada set to buck G7 trend by unveiling stimulus-rich budget
By Leah Schnurr | Reuters – 1 hour 53 minutes ago

OTTAWA (Reuters) - Canada's new Liberal government will try to revive a flagging economy by unveiling one of the country's biggest deficits since the 2008 financial crisis in Tuesday's federal budget, making it a rarity among Group of Seven peers more focused on austerity.

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau's government is expected to run a deficit of about C$30 billion ($22.93 billion)- three times as large as promised during last year's election campaign - with the focus on infrastructure spending it hopes will spur hiring and growth.

The drop in the price of oil, a major export for Canada, has battered the economy, putting it in a brief recession last year and forcing the Bank of Canada to cut rates twice in 2015. The government warned last month it would run bigger deficits than it had anticipated because of the weak growth outlook.

Its move to increase the deficit to spend more aligns it with some economists and the Group of 20, which has called for governments to use fiscal and structural policies as stimulus tools, taking some of the burden off central banks.

"With the arguable exception of Japan ... doing so from a position of fiscal strength, which Canada is doing, is absolutely not seen in any other G7 country," said Jacob Kirkegaard, Washington-based senior fellow at the Peterson Institute for International Economics.


Trudeau, who took office in November, has two big advantages. Canada escaped the credit crisis largely unscathed, leaving its federal debt-to-GDP ratio at a relatively low 31 percent, according to the country's Finance Department. His government also holds a majority in the country's Parliament, leaving it free to pass legislation without support from other parties.

While the former Conservative government of Stephen Harper ran a stimulus plan to combat the 2008 financial crisis, it emphasized rebalancing the books. Trudeau instead campaigned on a plan to take Canada back into deficit.

"Britain and Germany are firmly on the other side. Quite frankly, with the conditions we have in Canada, I'm happy to showcase that we think drawing in investment and creating opportunities for sustained growth ... are where we want to be," Trudeau said at a recent event in New York.

In the British budget last week, Finance Minister George Osborne stuck to his plan to turn the deficit into a surplus by 2020.

Other industrialized nations will be watching Trudeau's moves but are not expected to follow suit in the short term, given their own financial challenges and domestic politics, Kirkegaard said.

Former Bank of Canada Governor David Dodge, who was appointed by a Liberal prime minister, said Canada's use of fiscal stimulus could be a good example for its U.S. neighbor. But he added there was no simple formula that worked for every country.

The Conservatives and other critics said Ottawa risked letting debt get out of control.

"I do not think it's going to be effective," said William Robson, president of the C.D. Howe Institute. "I will be watching closely to see if there's any kind of credible plan back to balance in this budget."

(Additional reporting by David Ljunggren in Ottawa; Editing by Peter Cooney)
 
S.M.A. said:
As expected: of course Trudeau's media advocates spun this by saying that Trudeau's "taking the risk" to take Canada back into deficit was won him a majority mandate in the last election.  ::)

Reuters

Trudeau's media advocates.....

You come up with this shit, or copy and paste it from Facebook?

 
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