Politics in 2016

[MARS]

And speaking of numbers ...

After six months in office and in the wake of "elbowgate" Prime Minister Trudeau's popularity, and that of his party, remain astonishingly high.

Canadians voted for change and they are still persuaded that Justin Trudeau is going to bring it.

I have my doubts, but I think that, for now, a majority of Canadians (he's poling at 50%+) like Prime Minister Trudeau and either don't understand or just don't care what he's doing.

How long until the bloom is off the rose?  :dunno:  From a Conservative perspective any time before late spring of 2019 will do (i.e. when they suddenly realize that he can't balance the budget) ...

As you and I have discussed, he wot be any worse for us than Mr. Trump or Mrs. Clinton will be for the United States.  In 4 or 8 years the United States will be in roughly the same position they are now.  In x years, so will we.  Marginally better or worse but nothing drastic. 

Besides, as is already being reported from the convention, the senior mandarins of the liberal party will course correct whatever they need to if they think "their" party is being hijacked by policies try disagree with, regardless of what the celebrity-obsessed voters think.  There I so o much at stake - that is, The Liberal Party, to leave its fate and future in the hands of the average Joe.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

That reminds me.

That whole, just not ready attack ad? Something every young person who has wanted a job or looking for advancement has probably heard before. Too young, just not ready, not enough experience.  That probably didn't help the conservatives with the under 30 voters.

Never thought of that.  But...way back in the late 80's, I also heard that stuff to because, well I didn't have any experience.  I just didn't except a job or advancement to fall into my lap, I worked for them. 

But still, good catch, I never made that connection on the possible reverse effect it may have had.

You know, you always beat the same drum, but I have to say kudos for doing it in a civil manner on here.  BZ.  I didn't say its not annoying...just so you know that too.  ;D  Had to change that after the "I don't give a damn about old Canadians" comment to follow.

 

[George Wallace]

Never thought of that.  But...way back in the late 80's, I also heard that stuff to because, well I didn't have any experience.  I just didn't except a job or advancement to fall into my lap, I worked for them. 

But still, good catch, I never made that connection on the possible reverse effect it may have had.

You know, you always beat the same drum, but I have to say kudos for doing it in a civil manner on here.  BZ.  I didn't say its not annoying...just so you know that too.  ;D

Yes, EITS; but you did not come from a generation that felt as entitled as following generations.  [

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Yes, EITS; but you did not come from a generation that felt as entitled as following generations.  [

Yes, the days where after school, if I didn't load the woodbox by the stove in the basement, I didn't get my 30 minutes of time on Atari after my homework was done.  That was in elementary school. 

 

[Colin Parkinson]

That dismissive attitude towards young people is the exact reason you don't understand why they voted liberal. Also, if they/we can't get off our smartphones for  anything beyond the superficial I'm sure we wouldn't have found time to stand in line and vote.

So let's ignore the legalization of pot.

Let's ignore the liberals running a possible campaign on hope instead of the negative approach taken by the conservatives.

Let's ignore that the liberals were far more interested in the environment, something young voters care about.

Let's ignore the liberal campaign promises  revolving around helping young Canadians with jobs and post secondary education

Let's ignore the liberals using social media to reach young voters that the conservatives and ndp didn't

Lets ignore that the liberals were not standing for hijab bans and barbaric hotlines,  and that younger Canadians are more in favor of multiculturalism and inclusion.

Yeah, 45 percent of young voters voted for pot, puppies and butterflies. In record numbers not seen since 1997. That makes a heck of a lot more sense.

I will agree with you that they ran on those points, I can tell you that they won’t live up to many of them. Site C and TMX are going to be considered watershed moments for the First Nations and environmentalists to see if the promises made in the elections are mere words. Each of those decisions have consequences regardless of which way they go and people aren’t buying the “it’s the old governments fault”

There will be a significant buyers remorse for the non-traditional Liberal voter. How much goes to the NDP and how can the CPC recover, really depends.

 

[Jed]

That reminds me.

That whole, just not ready attack ad? Something every young person who has wanted a job or looking for advancement has probably heard before. Too young, just not ready, not enough experience.  That probably didn't help the conservatives with the under 30 voters.

Sooner or later Altair, you realize that arguing with an old fart like me is just like grabbing the pig in a pig wrestling contest. Old farts like me enjoy rolling in the mud; we like it. ;-)

 

[dapaterson]

Sort of like John Candy in Stripes?

 

[Altair]

Sooner or later Altair, you realize that arguing with an old fart like me is just like grabbing the pig in a pig wrestling contest. Old farts like me enjoy rolling in the mud; we like it. ;-)

I was on the debate team in school I do this for fun.

 

[Edward Campbell]

As you and I have discussed, he won't be any worse for us than Mr. Trump or Mrs. Clinton will be for the United States.  In 4 or 8 years the United States will be in roughly the same position they are now.  In x years, so will we.  Marginally better or worse but nothing drastic. 

Besides, as is already being reported from the convention, the senior mandarins of the liberal party will course correct whatever they need to if they think "their" party is being hijacked by policies try disagree with, regardless of what the celebrity-obsessed voters think.  There I so o much at stake - that is, The Liberal Party, to leave its fate and future in the hands of the average Joe.

That's correct ... as far as it goes.

The problem with Messers Trudeau and Trump and/or Ms Clinton is that they will, I fear, leave their countries in worse shape than they need to have been in, given half decent fiscal/policy management. (Edit to add: the "opportunity costs", thing) But we (almost 40% of the 70% who voted, anyway) made a choice based, in my opinion, on a great Liberal campaign. The themes, the style and the promises all worked ... Prime Minister Harper's campaign, by contrast, was erratic, poorly presented and disjointed ... it lacked a central theme and it descended into downright nastiness.

So, we bought the sizzle and now we are left to sift through the embers looking for the steak ... ditto for our American friends in the coming years.

Meanwhile, other countries will be making their own political choices, and some will make better choices than say Australia, Britain, Canada and America have or are likely to make in the next few years. We make the choices we do because we do not "see" that things are neither as rosy as anyone (Stephen Harper or Justin Trudeau) makes out, nor a bad as they paint them ... but we (and the Americans) have some serious underlying, structural problems that are rarely if ever discussed, excerpt in a few editions of the Financial Post or Report on Business that Joe and Jane Voter wouldn't understand even if they did read them. We are not careening wildly towards hell in our hand-basket, but we are adrift, and the election of Justin Trudeau (and the fact that the Americans will make a choice between Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump) is just a symptom of our having "lost the plot," politically.

My  :2c:


Edited to add one phrase.

 

[Jarnhamar]

[quote author=Altair]

So let's ignore the legalization of pot.[/quote]
right, because it's good to go through life all fucked up and not giving a shit.

Let's ignore the liberals running a possible campaign on hope instead of the negative approach taken by the conservatives.

Hope is the first step on the path to disappointment. Just kidding. Hope as a political platform is great.

Let's ignore that the liberals were far more interested in the environment, something young voters care about.

The environment huh? Like when IFLS posts something about the environment and 4000 people respond without even reading the article. Climate change and all that.

Let's ignore the liberal campaign promises  revolving around helping young Canadians with jobs and post secondary education

Where young Canadians want free education or want their student loans, which lets face it a lot went to booze, forgiven lol

Let's ignore the liberals using social media to reach young voters that the conservatives and ndp didn't

Wanna get high?

Lets ignore that the liberals were not standing for hijab bans and barbaric hotlines,  and that younger Canadians are more in favor of multiculturalism and inclusion.

Farkhunda Malikzada would probably have approved if she wasn't physically torn apart and burned to death for (not really) burning a book

Yeah, 45 percent of young voters voted for pot, puppies and butterflies. In record numbers not seen since 1997. That makes a heck of a lot more sense.

it's great the leadership of our country was voted in for drugs and pretty selfies. Says a lot about us.

 

[ballz]

Not that they are 'engaged' but over what issues are bringing them TO politics.  Pot, puppies and butterflies.  Nothing of substance, for sure.

Do you think people voting on a single issue like legalizing drugs is a beneficial thing to our country as a whole?

I'd like to fire Justin Trudeau tomorrow, but the wasteful war on drugs that constantly criminalizes adults who have done no harm to anyone is hardly something of no substance. If you think the long-gun registry was a waste of money, it is spit-in-a-bucket to the war on drugs.

the current youthful society that has no respect or appreciation of those that did the heavy lifting to make life easier for them.

Go pound sand.

Today's 30 year olds and under have been voting for less than 11 years. They have at most voted in 4x federal elections, the vast majority less.

The federal debt was racked up to $523,648,000,000 before they could even vote. In the 13 years since, they have voted less than anyone else. Is racking up all that debt doing "the heavy lifting?" Seems like the older generations made things easy for themselves at everyone else's expense to me. If today's youth are doing the same, they learned from those who were the very best at it: those who turned 18 around 1980, when today's 30 year olds weren't even alive.

 

[Altair]

right, because it's good to go through life all ****ed up and not giving a crap.
Hope is the first step on the path to disappointment. Just kidding. Hope as a political platform is great.
The environment huh? Like when IFLS posts something about the environment and 4000 people respond without even reading the article. Climate change and all that.
Where young Canadians want free education or want their student loans, which lets face it a lot went to booze, forgiven lol
Wanna get high?
Farkhunda Malikzada would probably have approved if she wasn't physically torn apart and burned to death for (not really) burning a book
it's great the leadership of our country was voted in for drugs and pretty selfies. Says a lot about us.

http://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/politics/spike-in-young-voters-helped-liberals-win-federal-election-report-1.2864902

Employment, student debt key issues for youth

The data suggests lack of employment and the cost of post-secondary education were among the most important issues to young people.

More than 60 per cent of those surveyed said the rising cost of tuition and bleak employment prospects were having a negative impact on their lives.

Only 20 per cent of those who were employed at the time of the survey said they were happy with their job.

And nearly half of respondents said they wouldn’t be able to afford a home within five years of graduating from university or college.

“They were spoken to about those issues very directly by one party,” McDonald said.

During the election, the Liberals’ promise to legalize marijuana was seen by many as a move that would be most popular among young people. But the data shows that the issue was close to the bottom of the list of issues millennials cared about.

The study, conducted by Abacus Data, surveyed 1,000 Canadians in the Feb. 8 to 15.

The company said the numbers are accurate within 3.2 percentage points, 19 times out of 20.

With files from the Canadian Press

Yup, drugs, all drugs. Totally drugs.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Well, at least my generation can be thankful that you young ones out there left us Sex and Rock-and-Roll  ;D [ [lol:

 

[Jarnhamar]

More than 60 per cent of those surveyed said the rising cost of tuition and bleak employment prospects were having a negative impact on their lives.

Only 20 per cent of those who were employed at the time of the survey said they were happy with their job.

You mean people weren't landing $100'000 a year jobs after studying 4 years of 'Woymns studies'? WTF!

And nearly half of respondents said they wouldn’t be able to afford a home within five years of graduating from university or college.

What bullshit.
This reminds me of my 22 year old nephew who graduated grade 12 and only making $20 an hour walking up and down a pipeline who feels he's entitled to waaaaaay more.

I'm entitled to 4 years of Queer Musicology, Art Hostory and Philosophy for free.

 

[Altair]

You mean people weren't landing $100'000 a year jobs after studying 4 years of 'Woymns studies'? WTF!
What bullshit.
This reminds me of my 22 year old nephew who graduated grade 12 and only making $20 an hour walking up and down a pipeline who feels he's entitled to waaaaaay more.

I'm entitled to 4 years of Queer Musicology, Art Hostory and Philosophy for free.

stay classy mate.

 

[Bird_Gunner45]

stay classy mate.

yeah, really....

However, my problem with universal university education being funded is that university degree's don't necessarily produce a net gain to society. We are currently short on tradespeople and labourers, so as a society there is a loss for some,who might otherwise go into the trades, to be put through university (why it wasn't free in the first place). That said, I am for fully funding education that is in fields identified as a neccessity that provide a net benefit for society (which Irish/Women's/etc studies doesn't provide, IMHO).

That said, if people put themselves through a degree that has less than stellar chances of producing a well paying job I dont think that they have the right to complain. No one forced anyone to do any degree or education. The question is then, why do I have to pay taxes so that someone can get a degree that doesn't produce a net benefit to the nation? Isn't the point of taxes to benefit the whole? (the argument against TFSAs?)

 

[Good2Golf]

Isn't the point of taxes to benefit the whole?

To quote a famous group of PhD-qualified critical thinkers, "Emmanuel Kant, was a real piss-ant..."

 

[Jarnhamar]

[quote author=Bird_Gunner45]

That said, if people put themselves through a degree that has less than stellar chances of producing a well paying job I dont think that they have the right to complain. No one forced anyone to do any degree or education. The question is then, why do I have to pay taxes so that someone can get a degree that doesn't produce a net benefit to the nation? Isn't the point of taxes to benefit the whole? (the argument against TFSAs?)
[/quote]
Exactly.

 

[Altair]

yeah, really....

However, my problem with universal university education being funded is that university degree's don't necessarily produce a net gain to society. We are currently short on tradespeople and labourers, so as a society there is a loss for some,who might otherwise go into the trades, to be put through university (why it wasn't free in the first place). That said, I am for fully funding education that is in fields identified as a neccessity that provide a net benefit for society (which Irish/Women's/etc studies doesn't provide, IMHO).

That said, if people put themselves through a degree that has less than stellar chances of producing a well paying job I dont think that they have the right to complain. No one forced anyone to do any degree or education. The question is then, why do I have to pay taxes so that someone can get a degree that doesn't produce a net benefit to the nation? Isn't the point of taxes to benefit the whole? (the argument against TFSAs?)

Who is talking about free post secondary?  I think the problem a lot of graduates run into is (based off friends and family) is they walk away with a degree in whatever, 20-50 k in debt and can't find a job in their field while needing to start paying back their sizeable debt.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/liberals-increase-financial-aid-for-students-ease-debt-repayment-rules/article29353822/?service=mobile

Changes to financial aid include allowing low-income graduates to defer their student loan payments until they make more than $25,000 a year, and providing a 50-per-cent increase to federal grants to $3,000 from $2,000 for low-income students. (Middle-income students will see an increase to $1,200 from $800.)

Nowhere in there do I see free tuition.

 

[Bird_Gunner45]

Who us talking about free spot secondary?  I think the problem a lot of graduates run into is (based off friends and family) is they walk away with a degree in whatever, 20-50 k in debt and can't find a job in their field while needing to start paying back their sizeable debt.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/liberals-increase-financial-aid-for-students-ease-debt-repayment-rules/article29353822/?service=mobile

Nowhere in there do I see free tuition.

True in that article. However, having taken part in annual student marches in Halifax while a student and the overwhelming consensus was that post-secondary should be fully funded and was a right. Ditto for when I was on my masters (though I didn't do the marches by then).

However, if they can't find jobs in their fields perhaps they need new fields, ie- the trades. Once again, no one forced anyone into any program.