Quebec sovereignty?

[Spencer100]

But then Canada would most likely hire the people that negotiated Brexit for the British side.....


Or the negotiating team would be made up of Quebec Federal senior civil servants accross the table from other Quebec civil servants.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I could live in a Canada without Quebec. But they leave with nothing. No military, no federal resources, issue their own money, etc.

 

[Kilted]

The interesting thing would be how many millions of people would have dual citizenship. I'm not sure how long Quebec would stay independent.

 

[Halifax Tar]

People are impatient and don't like sharing?

It's not sharing when it's taken from you... Thats called taxation.

Sharing is something offered up willingly.

 

[Edward Campbell]

I could live in a Canada without Quebec. But they leave with nothing. No military, no federal resources, issue their own money, etc.

The article and Premier François Legault's statement are interesting but they ignore the political realities.

Just imagine what happens in Canada, including in Québec, IF a "fair" referendum question receives a "Oui" majority. Canada would be plunged into political chaos - there government of the day - Conservative, Liberal or coalition - would be tossed out on it's ear. "New Canada," (see this from 20ish years ago) would decide the day and it demand a harsh deal. Québec would, eventually, acquiesce to a negotiated (internationally (not UN) brokered) settlement which would include both territorial and financial "compensation" to Canada. The remnants of Canada east of Québec would be left (partially) isolated and poorer and would wonder why being Canadian mattered.

 

[Remius]

Legault is just trying to change the channel after making a controversial decision to raise tuition in that province for out of province students.

 

[OldSolduer]

Can’t think what the common thread might be….

I can think of one and only one......

 

[Lumber]

It's not sharing when it's taken from you... Thats called taxation.

Sharing is something offered up willingly.

I give up my taxes willingly. I'm actually happy to pay taxes because I know there is no possible other way to adequately provide services to citizen other than to pay taxes and to have government run institutions.

 

[Halifax Tar]

I give up my taxes willingly. I'm actually happy to pay taxes because I know there is no possible other way to adequately provide services to citizen other than to pay taxes and to have government run institutions.

Speak for yourself. I would rather have options. Taking from anyone without giving them a choice is not sharing.

The article and Premier François Legault's statement are interesting but they ignore the political realities.

Just imagine what happens in Canada, including in Québec, IF a "fair" referendum question receives a "Oui" majority. Canada would be plunged into political chaos - there government of the day - Conservative, Liberal or coalition - would be tossed out on it's ear. "New Canada," (see this from 20ish years ago) would decide the day and it demand a harsh deal. Québec would, eventually, acquiesce to a negotiated (internationally (not UN) brokered) settlement which would include both territorial and financial "compensation" to Canada. The remnants of Canada east of Québec would be left (partially) isolated and poorer and would wonder why being Canadian mattered.

I don't see Canada surviving after a Que separation. From Sask west goes to the US and probably the North, and the same with the Atlantic provinces, its simply their only route to continued existence. This leaves Man and Ont... Which may carry on in some form but as a the Luxembourg or Lichtenstein of NA.

You may even see the US move forces in "to quell" a destabilizing neighbor.

Any way to read that article without a subscription ?

 

[Eaglelord17]

Losing their equalization payments would kill them as well.

A Quebec without Canada is like a Scotland without the UK. It will survive but the quality of life will drop.

 

[KevinB]

Honestly it has always been a pipe dream for Quebec Nationalists, not grounded in any semblance of reality.

While Alberta could join the US, there would be no logical reason for us down here to even consider Quebec, and frankly they’d be worse off with us, as their shit wouldn’t fly down here.

 

[Brad Sallows]

I could live in a Canada without Quebec. But they leave with nothing. No military, no federal resources, issue their own money, etc.

A pure and appropriate division of assets and liabilities would have to mean they leave with "something", unless negotiations exchange the balance of assets and liabilities. For example, if independent QC meant to be disarmed, it could negotiate away the value of its share of military assets in exchange for a slightly less share of current federal debt.

Having their own currency ought to be non-negotiable. I suppose they could choose to have none and just make Canadian (and maybe US) dollars legal tender. But they ought to have no say in how Canadian currency is managed. Not having their own currency would be a huge vulnerability - at the least, they wouldn't be able to "print money" to get out of a fiscal jam.

Furthermore, if they have to accept responsibility for some share of Canadian debt, that debt will be denominated in Canadian dollars. So they'd need Canadian dollars to meet the obligations. They can't know whether the values of the currencies might diverge, and whether that divergence would be favourable to them.

If they could get out of any obligation to own a share of Canadian debt, I suppose we'd see a race among the provinces to get out and see who is left holding the bag.

 

[TacticalTea]

This thread is quite possibly the best argument in favour of independance I've ever come across.

A bunch of racist anglos who hate Quebec but apparently want to continue subjugating it?

Do better. If you hate Quebec so much, just amend it out of the Constitution.

---

On a more serious note, yes the convergence of Albertan and Quebec separatism might be something to worry about, but perhaps more to reflect on. How is it that a single government can draw the ire of both THE conservative province and THE liberal province at the same time?

It only makes it clearer than ever that the bloated federal government has far exceeded its reasonable bounds. It has grown massive - with nothing to show for it - and consistently interferes in provincial matters.

It is long past time to revert to a confederal model.

 

[QV]

I prefer Canada remain united. But there are too many divisions. The elected leadership of this country are working to wreck entire regions for ideological reasons, and large parts of the RoC are ok with it to their own detriment as well.

That scenario can't go on.

 

[EME101]

It is interesting to note, that Quebec's own budget document lists federal transfers as $29B, and their own income as $115B. Why the discrepancy? Did they just count the equalization payments? http://www.finances.gouv.qc.ca/Budget_and_update/budget/documents/AUTEN_SummaryMarch2023.pdf

 

[FormerHorseGuard]

When they held the last vote to separate they had a slush fund of billions of dollars and the next day the funds did not materialize as they lost the vote and they put the money back where it was suppose to be. Or the money was never really there.

If they were to have another vote, this would just make the West even more radical about not sending money to Ottawa that is spent on Quebec. Equalization Payments are not equal in any way or shape.

I wonder if Quebec did manage to separate, do they realize the First Nations Land where the Hydro Quebec power dams are located are not in Quebec ? The First Nations as much as they do not like Ottawa and the politics did request RCMP and the Canadian Military to come help secure their lands as they were not going to be a part of the New Quebec.

Governments have money on paper but they have a hard time finding it when it comes to spending it on long term projects.

 

[KevinB]

When they held the last vote to separate they had a slush fund of billions of dollars and the next day the funds did not materialize as they lost the vote and they put the money back where it was suppose to be. Or the money was never really there.

If they were to have another vote, this would just make the West even more radical about not sending money to Ottawa that is spent on Quebec. Equalization Payments are not equal in any way or shape.

I wonder if Quebec did manage to separate, do they realize the First Nations Land where the Hydro Quebec power dams are located are not in Quebec ? The First Nations as much as they do not like Ottawa and the politics did request RCMP and the Canadian Military to come help secure their lands as they were not going to be a part of the New Quebec.

Governments have money on paper but they have a hard time finding it when it comes to spending it on long term projects.

You know job #1 of an independent Quebec is ruling that those lands are Quebec...

 

[TacticalTea]

When they held the last vote to separate they had a slush fund of billions of dollars and the next day the funds did not materialize as they lost the vote and they put the money back where it was suppose to be. Or the money was never really there.

If they were to have another vote, this would just make the West even more radical about not sending money to Ottawa that is spent on Quebec. Equalization Payments are not equal in any way or shape.

I wonder if Quebec did manage to separate, do they realize the First Nations Land where the Hydro Quebec power dams are located are not in Quebec ? The First Nations as much as they do not like Ottawa and the politics did request RCMP and the Canadian Military to come help secure their lands as they were not going to be a part of the New Quebec.

Governments have money on paper but they have a hard time finding it when it comes to spending it on long term projects.

Anglos in one thread: Canada is too weak to take on any role in Haiti.

Anglos in another thread: Canada, a post national-state having just lost a fifth of its combat power, should invade a sovereign nation.

 

[KevinB]

Anglos in one thread: Canada is too weak to take on any role in Haiti.

Anglos in another thread: Canada, a post national-state having just lost a fifth of its combat power, should invade a sovereign nation.

Arguably a third of the Army and near half the RCAF.

 

[Good2Golf]

I was posted in Qc leading up to the referendum and I remember mentioning to some (who said Quebec should receive no Defence assets) that Qc absolutely would be entitled to some share of the nation’s/DND’s assets. Semi-tongue in cheek, I noted, the more the better. Many people were wishing away the costs of true Quebec sovereignty. Ironically, some things were already there in practice…QPP being one example.

Having at least contributed several years to the Province via Relève 1 (RL1), aka. «Relieve my wallet of the weight of money» , there was a part of me as a temporary Quebec resident that wanted to vote yes, so that some folks would have to actually get into the BREXIT-like minutiae of figuring how much one’s independence would cost the people.

As seen more recently with Alberta’s discontent with patent lack of Federal support (if not, outright hostility), I think the issue of late is that the Federal Government appears set to play its own game while downplaying the nature of Provinces within the Federation.

For the same reason that I think an AB move to pursue establishment of an APP, notwithstanding recent Federal coercive messaging (un-legislated ‘once you’re out, you’re out!’ Threats), is something that Alberta is entitled to pursue, so to should Quebec’s consideration of succession from Canada as a more extreme, but equally legislatively legitimate (albeit with a different conditions-space around it).