Royal Canadian Air Force headed to mission in Africa ‘very soon’: top general

[Altair]

I've heard no talk of supporting the French mission -- which wouldn't give us any points for that hypothetical UNSC seat -- but only adding on to the even worse-off UN mission.... whose troops are routinely attacked because they are deemed softer targets.  At the current rate, MINUSMA is well on its way to the dubious distinction of the most fatalities by belligerent attacks than any previous mission (yes, Somalia and Congo sucked massively, but the Jihadists in Mali are really upping their game).

Therefore, I'd argue that it'll be worse than Afghanistan, if only because:  a) there's even less  interest amongst the rest of the planet in African problems; and b) many Canadians still believe that this will be "peacekeeping," whereas it was eventually accepted that Afghanistan was a combat mission.  That belief, and the limited pers numbers, suggest that even with "robust ROEs" we won't have the full array of combat forces required -- we'll be bringing a knife to a gunfight.

Any chance that 600 number rises if the situation on the ground warrants it?

 

[George Wallace]

I've asked some of my friends who are stupidly involved in BLM in Canada and I assure you the BLM movement actually couldn't care less about the Canadian military.

To be honest, how many actually couldn't care less about the BLM in Canada?

 

[Journeyman]

Any chance that 600 number rises if the situation on the ground warrants it?

Of course.

However, that would require changing "the narrative." What would cause such a sea change in government thinking? 

Ponder.  I'll wait. 

 

[jeffb]

Or we just have 400 people on "TAVs"....

 

[Altair]

To be honest, how many actually couldn't care less about the BLM in Canada?

In general? A lot.

BLM members specifically? Ish. The BLM doesn't exactly have leader such as the civil rights movement did in MLK, but a lot of their protests are organized on social media in a top down sort of fashion.

The top in BLM don't have their eyes on the Canadian military. We, the military, don't exactly have a history of killing Canadian/American Blacks and getting off without charges.

And, like a lot of feminist groups in the west, don't care about blacks/women in other countries.

 

[PuckChaser]

Any chance that 600 number rises if the situation on the ground warrants it?

 

[George Wallace]

In general? A lot.

BLM members specifically? Ish. The BLM doesn't exactly have leader such as the civil rights movement did in MLK, but a lot of their protests are organized on social media in a top down sort of fashion.

The top in BLM don't have their eyes on the Canadian military. We, the military, don't exactly have a history of killing Canadian/American Blacks and getting off without charges.

And, like a lot of feminist groups in the west, don't care about blacks/women in other countries.

Seriously.  You have to be sitting in the center of that small clique to think that it is a lot. 

Another point that you and the BLM ignore, is that our POLICE don't exactly have a history of killing Blacks, let alone getting off without charges.  That really makes them irrelevant here; just like all the Canadians in Canadian cities protesting "Trump is not our President".  Sad that we have such ignorant people running around in our Canadian society protesting what are in essence IRRELEVANT issues to Canadians.  Proof that our Education Systems are failing us.

 

[Altair]

Seriously.  You have to be sitting in the center of that small clique to think that it is a lot. 

Another point that you and the BLM ignore, is that our POLICE don't exactly have a history of killing Blacks, let alone getting off without charges.  That really makes them irrelevant here; just like all the Canadians in Canadian cities protesting "Trump is not our President".  Sad that we have such ignorant people running around in our Canadian society protesting what are in essence IRRELEVANT issues to Canadians.  Proof that our Education Systems are failing us.

Damn, Sorry. Meant a little. Don't know why I put a lot. Case of the Mondays.

As for Canadian Police, I agree. However, as with most things, American culture and ideas just kind of border hops with no need of a passport.

I have asked them what specific cases they are upset about in Canada and my friends don't seem to be able to point to many. There are not many. But they see what's happening in the states and they seem to want to act in solidarity.

I think it's stupid, but whatever. My main point is to say that as far as people in BLM are aware, nobody there has their sights on the CAF and what we do in Africa

 

[George Wallace]

I think it's stupid, but whatever. My main point is to say that as far as people in BLM are aware, nobody there has their sights on the CAF and what we do in Africa

With their concerns of things not relevant to Canada, perhaps this is the problem the Government is also having and why there is no defined mission set in stone these many months after an announcement was made. 

 

[Jarnhamar]

I've asked some of my friends who are stupidly involved in BLM in Canada and I assure you the BLM movement actually couldn't care less about the Canadian military.

Today they don't because there is no benefit to it. There's no spotlight to be had.  The minute they sniff out a story that will give them a platform to garner media attention they will be all over it. BLM "stands in solidarity" with whoever they can if it means they can steal some air time.

 

[daftandbarmy]

With their concerns of things not relevant to Canada, perhaps this is the problem the Government is also having and why there is no defined mission set in stone these many months after an announcement was made.

I heard an interesting interview with a journalist on the CBC this morning. It's clear that our SOF in Iraq are 'kind of' engaged in a ground war there, but the general public aren't really aware of it right now and are being fed the 'trainers only' line by the government. Of course that would change if, gawd forbid, a chopper full crashed or something. It's basically a disingenuous stance by the government, IMHO, which the military will likely suffer for if there's any big dramas.

If we go into Mali, we'd better be clear about why we're there, and provide the right ROE and equipment, or everyone will be in the hurt locker, especially the troops on the ground.

 

[PuckChaser]

Troops flying around in a helicopter does not equal offensive operations, unless that chopper went down at night well behind enemy front lines....

 

[Kirkhill]

Troops flying around in a helicopter does not equal offensive operations, unless that chopper went down at night well behind enemy front lines....

Sea King Disaster

On the night of May 19th, (1982 Falklands) a tragedy took the lives of 18 SAS men, many experienced senior ranks. A Sea King helicopter from 846 NAS, was bringing back a mixture of D/G squadron SAS men and other personnel back from the islands to a Royal Navy ship. The helicopter was forced to circle until its landing spot became available. It was while the Sea King was orbiting that it crashed into the freezing water, probably the victim of a bird-strike into the engines. Out of 30 men onboard the helicopter, only 9 survived.

Daylight, own lines, administrative move.

Numerous gray incidents in Afghanistan from what I understand.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I heard an interesting interview with a journalist on the CBC this morning. It's clear that our SOF in Iraq are 'kind of' engaged in a ground war there, but the general public aren't really aware of it right now and are being fed the 'trainers only' line by the government. Of course that would change if, gawd forbid, a chopper full crashed or something. It's basically a disingenuous stance by the government, IMHO, which the military will likely suffer for if there's any big dramas.

If we go into Mali, we'd better be clear about why we're there, and provide the right ROE and equipment, or everyone will be in the hurt locker, especially the troops on the ground.

Hopefully not another Medak Pocket scenario

 

[MilEME09]

Hopefully not another Medak Pocket scenario

Worse because the other side won't have an issue with shooting us, or planting IED's everywhere

 

[Kirkhill]

Just saw an interesting comment on the CBC responses to the F18 announcement:

"Well, at least he (Chretien) kept us out of that Iraq mess that Harper wanted us in."

Fast forward 15 years and where are the Liberals doling out the ammunition?

 

[daftandbarmy]

Worse because the other side won't have an issue with shooting us, or planting IED's everywhere

Or using suicide bombers against 'neutral' UN positions:

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/16/world/africa/mali-suicide-bomber-attacks-un-base.html?_r=0

http://www.thelocal.se/20161011/attempted-suicide-attack-on-swedish-troops-in-mali

 

[OldSolduer]

Worse because the other side won't have an issue with shooting us, or planting IED's everywhere

One side at Medak didn't have an issue shooting at us....our guys shot back.

 

[medicineman]

One side at Medak didn't have an issue shooting at us....our guys shot back.

They weren't too upset if we ran over their mines either...

MM

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I was thinking more of the political coverup of it and lack of acknowledgement.