TKMS Type 212CD (Victoria class replacement megathread)

[HavokFour]

Aka…subs are hard.

Wouldn't want them squishy.

 

[Troopasaurus]

Babcock was part of the KSS-III sustainment plan; TKMS partnered with Seaspan.

Hanwha Ocean, Babcock Canada Lay Out CPSP Sustainment, Delivery Plan

Hanwha Ocean and Babcock Canada outlined sustainment roles, platform details and a proposed delivery timeline for Canada’s submarine project.

www.govconexec.com

Seaspan ready to deliver Canadian sovereign sustainment on new submarine fleet with partner TKMS - Seaspan

Victoria, B.C. — July 6, 2026 — Seaspan Shipyards (Seaspan) today welcomed the Government of Canada’s announcement of ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems (TKMS) as the strategic build partner for the Canadian Patrol Submarine Project (CPSP). The project aligns with Canada’s Defence Industrial Strategy...

www.seaspan.com

 

[KevinB]

Yep probably number two or three. Then after that it doesn't really matter.

They didn't magically do it as I stated before. Norway in particular stepped in a committed one of their own boats to sweeten the pot. TKMS bid that went in at the same time as Korean one stated 2033 as the first Canadian boat. Norway's commitment came when? I don't know.

Norway’s boat deal is Government to Government, so likely very late in the game to tilt the needle.

If TKMS has a history of taking their submarine contractors for a ride that would be pretty clear. Their reputation is quite the opposite with decades of integration and experience. So I'm going glass is half full on this. Yes they had first of class problems (Type 214... ) for sure. I expect there will be some for this boat as well.

Agreed on both points. Fish do not vote (neither do rivers though... lol)

12 subs = 10 provinces 2 territories.
Yukon gets cut. That's a river so it will be part of the River Class!

I’m sure you won’t need 12 names at the end of the day.

 

[medicineman]

I’m sure you won’t need 12 names at the end of the day.

6 names - 6 of them with "II" after their names...replacing the "First of Its Name" when it gets paid off as the twin is launched...my middle initial is "C" for "Cynic"

 

[SeaKingTacco]

I thought Babcock did all the EDWP Sub maintenance? They just happen to be at VSL (Seaspan). I never saw Seaspan people on the East Coast, just Babcock. Mind you, FMF still does a lot of it too.

No.

Babcock does the EDWP now.

VSL will be TKMS partner for the 212s

 

[Underway]

Norway’s boat deal is Government to Government, so likely very late in the game to tilt the needle.

I’m sure you won’t need 12 names at the end of the day.

We can revisit this in (takes off shoes to count) more than ten years. It will be 8 years till we get four.

 

[Underway]

No.

Babcock does the EDWP now.

VSL will be TKMS partner for the 212s

That alone will probably make a bunch if people happy. Lot of maint types are NOT impressed with Babcock. Of course maint types are never happy. Even me... I can be a real asshole.

 

[Czech_pivo]

We can revisit this in (takes off shoes to count) more than ten years. It will be 8 years till we get four.

True.
Do you have a ‘keel laying’ ceremony for subs?
Would we send people to Germany for each sub?

 

[lenaitch]

The use of historical figures was highly discouraged by some committee members as your just inviting issues.

So you're saying John A MacDonald, Edgar Ryerson or Sir Sam Steele are out?

I’m sure you won’t need 12 names at the end of the day.

If they decide to name them after provinces, maybe keep Alberta and Quebec to the end of production.

 

[OldSolduer]

His Majesty’s Canadian Untersee Boot 1867

 

[oldcpu]

His Majesty’s Canadian Untersee Boot 1867

Lol ... Thinking back to 1945 ... for a time there was HMCS U-190 and HMCS U-889.

 

[OldSolduer]

His Majesty’s Canadian Untersee Boot 1867

Number them after auspicious events in RCN history- even though I started with 1867

 

[oldcpu]

There are winners and losers whenever you have to pick namesakes for ships, it might not be the goal to "prefer" one nation/group over another but you are fundamentally doing so when some make the grade and others are left on the cutting room floor.

No I am not fundamentally doing such. I guess I will have to explain such as you 100% missed such.

If you go back and read the hypothetical proposed names you will see it is very different.

The RCN has a history of using native names for warships which in the most part correspond to rivers. Look at the "steamers" , ... ie the St.Laurent, MacKenzie, Restigouche, and Annapolis class. All named after rivers. And if one looks at the origin of the river names, 10 were of Indigenous origin, 3 named after explorers, 6 mostly french language origin, and 1 likely named related to British royalty. Clearly , "Indigenous" is the largest origin.

Further, which you noted that you did see on the website, the RCN on a government webpage clearly indicates for the River Class it intends to use Indigenous names - which is 100% contrary to your devil's advocate position that such use of Indigenous names will be offensive because not every aspect of Canada's Indigenous culture can be covered.

Noting that the past 'steamers' in no small part had names that in the majority were from river's of Indigenous names, and further noting that the RCN intends to follow that tradition with the River Class, and noting further that the 3 Canadian O-boats, in addition to adopting a name starting with "O" also adopted names of Indigenous origin, establishes a strong tradition of showing exceptional honor to Canada's native culture.

The fact that every group can't have use of their names/language is, frankly, an over concern (dare i say over-reach) in your devil's advocate approach.

Further - My point ??? It is this ... The names I suggested prior were deliberately new names, in part, to use Indigenous names that had not yet been used, in part to address the VERY devil advocate approaches such as yours (where I think you over looked that part of my intent).

Now ... on the topic of names - I also like the names of Canada's provinces/territories being used for the Type-212CD class submarines to be procured by Canada. I note thou, some of those provinces have Indigenous origins, and frankly we should celebrate such origins, and not try to ignore it (or put it down) as an English language adaptation, like you inferred. Nor should we put it down because every Indigenous aspect can not be covered (unless of course, you wish to buy 2 or 3 dozen more submarines to satisfy all).

I also note that naming submarines after past distinguished surface warships is also something other navies in the world have been known to do.

Having typed that, if one wished to play the devil's advocate for naming Canadian Type-212CDs after provinces, one could gripe and say that is a "USA approach" as the USN for their Virginia class submarines have mostly (not entirely thou) named such after US states. Hence in a time and age when the USA POTUS is applying tariffs and making veiled acquisition of Canada suggestions, adopting a USA approach may (if playing the devils advocate) not be an appropriate approach (naming our subs after provinces like USA does , where USA names subs after states). .... Just saying if i were a devil's advocate.

One area where I think we agree (although I could be wrong there in your view) is we both believe that chosen names should ideally reflect some aspect of Canadian history / heritage that we wish to honour by naming a submarine after such.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

There are 634 Indigenous groups in Canada. You could ask for them all to submit their approval to name the subs after them.

 

[OldSolduer]

There are 634 Indigenous groups in Canada. You could ask for them all to submit their approval to name the subs after them.

Now the fight would be worth watching

 

[Swampbuggy]

We can revisit this in (takes off shoes to count) more than ten years. It will be 8 years till we get four.

Would it not mean if the hull number gets reduced, then so too do the ITB’s, offset etc commensurately?