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UOR new equipment

And as this war has shown, and really pre war by cost per round. Not enough
I'm sure we could build up a decent stock of ammo if the ammo is produced here. Glad to hear that they do!

Getting the M4 to replace the M3 is just too logical - donate the M3's we have to Ukraine & replace them all with the M4 variant. Sell the idea to government as "you donated all of our Carl G's, they need replacing, and the new M4 variant is the only one in production..."

It's basically a UOR writing itself
 
ATGM UOR RFP has apparently closed on Canada Buys in September. Two bids were received, not sure who from, probably Spike and Akeron.
 
Except that you are asking for a specific product and not a capability.
Well the M4 has a new ammunition family, including rounds with reduced back blast for firing in urban, confined spaces. That is a new capability. It can use programable ammunition as well. My understanding is the new ammunition isn't backwards compatible to the M2 and M3.
 
Well the M4 has a new ammunition family, including rounds with reduced back blast for firing in urban, confined spaces. That is a new capability. It can use programable ammunition as well. My understanding is the new ammunition isn't backwards compatible to the M2 and M3.
Part of the issue with Requirements, is too often that a user group focuses on an item not a capability.

If one is properly doing one’s job as Combat Developer a CDD (Combat Development Document) has looked at the needs of the user group/field force, and identifies needs KPP (key performance parameters) of the equipment in terms of both threshold (minimum) and optimal (desired) parameters.

The other goal of a CDD is not to duplicate capabilities, in short don’t make a new requirement if a currently fielded piece of equipment already exists - either in another service, or can be modified by ECP (engineering change proposal) or PIP (Product Improvement Program) to accomplish the task.

With the CarlG the system is already fielded in the M2/M3 configuration with the CAF, so one should be able to conduct an upgrade via PIP to the M4 - writing a new requirement for the M4 isn’t required or desired.
PIP’s and ECP’s can be conducted with O&M money used for maintenance/op stock replacement, while a new program requires one to use the acquisition pipeline for a new program of record.

In short you are looking at years for a new program as opposed to months to get a PIP/ECP conducted.

The other issue with new programs they are supposed to require doctrinal support- something that can be an absolute nightmare that can often lead to chicken/egg discussions that delays things even further.
 
Well the M4 has a new ammunition family, including rounds with reduced back blast for firing in urban, confined spaces. That is a new capability. It can use programable ammunition as well. My understanding is the new ammunition isn't backwards compatible to the M2 and M3.

If you scroll down to their Ammo, it states all their ammo is compatible with every version of their system.
They might have to add the programmer to M3 version to use the smart fuze, but the ammo will work according to their site.
 
This is a couple months ago now but Canada did announce the winner of the ATGM UOR.

Minister Blair announces measures to strengthen Canada’s military presence in Latvia

The announcement doesn’t go into details but it is a 32.2 Million USD contract.

Here the US State Department published a possible FMS contract for Javelin worth 75 Million USD. It likely gives a rough idea of what our 32.2 Million contact will be getting us.
If I had to guess I would say the cost difference is likely in the number of all up war shots being procured and perhaps in service support being less for our UOR.
 
This is a couple months ago now but Canada did announce the winner of the ATGM UOR.

Minister Blair announces measures to strengthen Canada’s military presence in Latvia

The announcement doesn’t go into details but it is a 32.2 Million USD contract.

Here the US State Department published a possible FMS contract for Javelin worth 75 Million USD. It likely gives a rough idea of what our 32.2 Million contact will be getting us.
If I had to guess I would say the cost difference is likely in the number of all up war shots being procured and perhaps in service support being less for our UOR.
The announcement states that Rafael won the ATGM contract and they manufacture the Spike ATGM.
 
Yes, I know. I’m merely assuming that Spike and Javelin are likely roughly comparable in cost. Hence the comparison of our 32.2 to 75 Million USD as a very rough but probable guess of what our UOR contract will contain in terms of firing posts, missile numbers, etc.

I was unclear in articulating that to start.
 
I picked up wh
Yes, I know. I’m merely assuming that Spike and Javelin are likely roughly comparable in cost. Hence the comparison of our 32.2 to 75 Million USD as a very rough but probable guess of what our UOR contract will contain in terms of firing posts, missile numbers, etc.

I was unclear in articulating that to start.
I picked up what you were putting down

Damn, some good news for the CAF! It may be a limited buy for now, being a mission specific UOR, but Spike is better than no Spike. Hopefully we'll get the Spike-ER...


The last few months have been such a whirlwind of ups & downs in terms of CAF announcements...

- Finally buying trucks, but not enough for a 1 to 1 replacement!

- Finally buying ATGM's, but just enough for Latvia mission!

- Replacing 5 Polaris with 9 MRTT, airframes starting to arrive slowly but surely!

- Budget cut by $1B 😳🤯
 
Just curious if there was any public info on whether CANSOF had ever used their Spikes in anger.
 
Which may explain why they had a fire sale on them right after…
 
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