Updated Army Service Dress project

[kosb]

I don't know if Operational dress at NDHQ etc. is going to stay. Some have hinted that it was because of a lack of uniform availability. Given than Logistik is scaling back on DEU because the new Army DEU is arriving in 2026, that's probably why. And they couldn't just say Op Dress for Army because the RCAF and RCN would get their noses out of joint that they still had to wear DEU. You'll see 3B return to the NCR when the new ones are issued.

Now, are they comfortable? Remains to be seen. I think we should redesign our DEU from scratch. The concepts Logistik presented at CANSEC the past two years, from what I saw searching the web, are major throwbacks to WWII British Army uniforms. Put the concept for the "women's" pocketed DEU beside a common picture of Queen Elizabeth II (then Princess), and you'll see a damn near identical tunic. I think we need to consider what an independent Canada with its own identity would dress like rather than putting Millennials and Gen Z etc. in historical outfits. I want to see a modernised dress uniform, emphasis on modernised.

They are throwbacks to Canadian Army uniforms of that era so we are re-aligned with the UK, Australia, NZ etc.....there's nothing wrong with sharing the same military heritage and history with former dominions, still our closest allies.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Fair enough, I have spent enough tine in damage school learning about the lessons from the RN in the Falklands.

My point was more about the reality the CAF faces. As a single service, the base standard needs to be applicable to all three elements, not just the light infantry.

I'd love to see an element specific PT test, so that we could capture if people are fit for the gym, or fit for bunker gear, SCBA, and hoses in a real fire.

I think the Force Test was supposed to be that and then add the element specific needs.

 

[daftandbarmy]

I think the Force Test was supposed to be that and then add the element specific needs.

My experience was that most people tended to default to the lowest required standard, and then stayed there.

The troops were always keen to push the standard higher but fat, ambivalent leaders (some of whom didn't participate because: office work) didn't help.

 

[Eaglelord17]

FWIW after the Falklands War, in the British Army, I recall that all the courses and fitness tests got much harder.

Although victorious, epic failures of fitness and endurance, leadership, training, systems and weapons and equipment in various quarters spurred a huge rethink and adjustments across the board in all three services.

The real thing tends to focus you on the most important things like being able to do the basics - but under extraordinarily difficult conditions

So where did the L85 land in terms of lessons learned?

 

[markppcli]

Great points, I for one think the black boots will go well with the new service khaki.

 

[rmc_wannabe]

Great points, I for one think the black boots will go well with the new service khaki.

I am also looking forward to the brown Oxfords, brown leather gloves, and the much needed departure from ridiculous gold insignia.

 

[Maxman1]

I wonder if we'll get brown ammo boots again.

 

[markppcli]

I am also looking forward to the brown Oxfords, brown leather gloves, and the much needed departure from ridiculous gold insignia.

The regimental kit shop can’t wait for new collar dogs. The images are all black shoes, so were the demos shown off.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

FWIW after the Falklands War, in the British Army, I recall that all the courses and fitness tests got much harder.

Not just the Army. The Royal Navy also completely overhauled and increased the standards for operational evaluations and work ups by the Sea Riders. They became a lot more difficult and much more realistic. They had been cruising throughout the Cold War with the lessons of WWII, never having given much thought to the weapons, weapons systems and sensors developments of the previous 25 years.

They were not the only ones. All of this type of training was greatly increased in most NATO navies as a result of the RN's lessons learned.

 

[RedFive]

The regimental kit shop can’t wait for new collar dogs. The images are all black shoes, so were the demos shown off.


View attachment 96180

Maybe my screen is just a little off, but the officer's shoes appear to be dark brown when compared closely to the NCO's footwear.

 

[markppcli]

Maybe my screen is just a little off, but the officer's shoes appear to be dark brown when compared closely to the NCO's footwear.

You’re probably right

 

[daftandbarmy]

Not just the Army. The Royal Navy also completely overhauled and increased the standards for operational evaluations and work ups by the Sea Riders. They became a lot more difficult and much more realistic. They had been cruising throughout the Cold War with the lessons of WWII, never having given much thought to the weapons, weapons systems and sensors developments of the previous 25 years.

They were not the only ones. All of this type of training was greatly increased in most NATO navies as a result of the RN's lessons learned.

The physical fitness triumphs of the Airborne and Commando units (including their attached arms and services who all completed the same selection courses) were countered with the massive fitness failures of the Guards regiment battalions, as well as many attached arms and services. So there was a desperate attempt to rapidly increase 'load carrying fitness' of a chubby, mainly BAOR/Armoured warfare focused army as a priority.

In the Army the fitness standards skyrocketed almost overnight and, in addition to the 'Battle Fitness Test' (1.5 miles in 12 minutes wearing boots, 9 minutes for PARA) these two additional tests were introduced:

• 2 mile Infantry Combat Fitness Test (ICFT): 35lbs webbing, rifle, 2 miles in 18 minutes, and
• 8 mile Combat Fitness Test (CFT): 35lbs webbing, rifle, 8 miles in 1 hour 35 minutes

Infantry, and atts, had to pass all three tests annually. Combat Arms units had to do the BFT and the CFT, and many also did the ICFT too. I once helped out with running a CFT for the Army Catering Corps depot and was hugely impressed by how well all those combat cooks did!

P Company, the Parachute Regiment's selection, got harder IMHO as they borrowed from WW2 fitness requirements, and events in the Welsh mountains - like the dreaded 20 miler - were reintroduced.

It was also a shock to alot of people when formerly attendance only 'gentlemen's courses' featured a CFT in addition to a renewed, ruthless focus on performance. I recall one FTX on the Pl Comd's Battle Course featuring a grueling, Goose Green inspired, 7-8 hour 'on your belly' Coy Gp level fight through, for example.

Fortunately Sandhurst (Officer training for all arms and services in the Army) already had a huge focus on battle fitness, even before the Falklands, and our CAF Combat Training Centre (at the time) had nothing to compare with it. Log races, timed battle marches, ruthless APTC led gym sessions, assault courses, and long range events through the Welsh mountains were all SOP.

However, they increased the length of Sandhurst from 6 to 9 months and included alot of 'character building' activities too, like challenging adventure training modules, and a long range (30-40 mile I think) romp through the Welsh mountains resembling the Cambrian March, to help build greater resilience and confidence in young leaders.

Similar upgrades were made to the Infantry Section Commanders Course, and the Pl Sgts Battle Course, in Wales.

So, yeah, the British had alot to thank the Argies for in terms of upping their 'training for war' game...

 

[Kilted]

The regimental kit shop can’t wait for new collar dogs. The images are all black shoes, so were the demos shown off.


View attachment 96180

Green berets are still going to be the default?

 

[rmc_wannabe]

Green berets are still going to be the default?

I believe the intent is to have the default be Army Blue now.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I am also looking forward to the brown Oxfords, brown leather gloves, and the much needed departure from ridiculous gold insignia.

I will be honest, I take the braid on the sleeves over the pips any day. Far easier to see what is coming at you and knowing if you need to just salute it or avoid it.

 

[rmc_wannabe]

I will be honest, I take the braid on the sleeves over the pips any day. Far easier to see what is coming at you and knowing if you need to just salute it or avoid it.

Enh.

We have enough identifiers in this Army uniform that scream "I'm important" than needing to move back to Unification-era ranks.

My main gripe was horrid gold on rifle green being a choice, most likely made by someone that was colour blind or had no sense of esthetics

 

[Halifax Tar]

Enh.

We have enough identifiers in this Army uniform that scream "I'm important" than needing to move back to Unification-era ranks.

My main gripe was horrid gold on rifle green being a choice, most likely made by someone that was colour blind or had no sense of esthetics

I think that might have been a Naval influence on that order of dress.

 

[rmc_wannabe]

I think that might have been a Naval influence on that order of dress.

That makes a lot of sense (or a lack of it, in hindsight).

 

[Halifax Tar]

I'd argue all of unification is the product of a lack of sense

 

[rmc_wannabe]

I'd argue all of unification is the product of a lack of sense

I would agree. Partly though...

We needed amalgamation of a lot of efforts, and we got those in most cases; unification (including dress and insignia) was overkill and did more damage than good.

I hope the ghost of Old Man Heyller is tortured in seeing it all unraveling 60 years after the fact...