US, NATO Outta Afghanistan 2021

[CBH99]

Turkey appears to want to keep their own blood from being spilt. We see how well this works out



According to the Euphrates Media Center, a Syrian Kurdish news outlet, members of Turkey’s National Intelligence Organization discussed the issue June 24 with representatives of several rebel factions under the banner of the Turkish-backed Syrian National Army, including Suqour al-Sham, Suqour al-Shamal, Faylaq al-Majd, the Samarkand Brigade, the Hamza Division, the Sultan Murad Division and the Suleiman Shah Brigade. The factions were told to start preparations for the deployment of 2,000 fighters to Afghanistan, the report said, adding that the rebel representatives asked for monthly salaries of $3,000 for the mercenaries. Other Syrian Kurdish media outlets reported the meeting took place in Hawar Kilis, a village near the town of Azez, not far from the Turkish border, and the intelligence officials asked for 2,600 mercenaries.

Read more: Will Turkey use Syrian mercenaries in Kabul?

I’m no longer a fan of Turkey for obvious reasons, despite having quite enjoyed my trips there in the past. (Prior to the changes over the last few years)

In Syria, Turkey conducted its operations via proxy. Aka rebel groups it paid & could mostly control. And now they are doing the same.


For one of the largest militaries in NATO, they seem to leave most of their fighting up to whatever clan of ‘rebels’ is convenient and available at the time.

 

[Altair]

I'm losing count, has the Afghan government lost 4 provincial capitals in the past week?

 

[CBH99]

I'm losing count, has the Afghan government lost 4 provincial capitals in the past week?

I thought as of today it’s ONLY been 3…??

 

[Altair]

I thought as of today it’s ONLY been 3…??

Zaranj,Kunduz, Sheberghan,Taleqan?

 

[CBH99]

Zaranj,Kunduz, Sheberghan,Taleqan?

Well damn…

 

[daftandbarmy]

I’m no longer a fan of Turkey for obvious reasons, despite having quite enjoyed my trips there in the past. (Prior to the changes over the last few years)

In Syria, Turkey conducted its operations via proxy. Aka rebel groups it paid & could mostly control. And now they are doing the same.


For one of the largest militaries in NATO, they seem to leave most of their fighting up to whatever clan of ‘rebels’ is convenient and available at the time.

Which is a strategy we should have adopted ages ago in AFG, IMHO, but we don't really 'get' it of course.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Which is a strategy we should have adopted ages ago in AFG, IMHO, but we don't really 'get' it of course.

The French have been using this strategy for years in their former colonies. Sprinkle in a handful of elite Infantry units and special forces for when you need it and you've got an effective force for protecting your interests.

 

[Altair]

Well damn…

Looking at the map, I don't see how the federal government can hold anything but Kabul.

And if the Taliban has everything but Kabul, then Kabul is also surely doomed.

 

[daftandbarmy]

The French have been using this strategy for years in their former colonies. Sprinkle in a handful of elite Infantry units and special forces for when you need it and you've got an effective force for protecting your interests.

There’s a reason they have the French Forsign Legion.

 

[Altair]

Pul-e-Khumri, capital of the northern province of Baghlan, has fallen.

Biden says Afghan leaders must 'fight for their nation' as Taliban gains

Taliban insurgents tightened their grip on captured Afghan territory on Tuesday, now controlling 65% of the country, as U.S. President Joe Biden urged the nation's leaders to fight for their homeland.

www.reuters.com

According to reuters, that makes 7 in the past week.

 

[CBH99]

Pul-e-Khumri, capital of the northern province of Baghlan, has fallen.

Biden says Afghan leaders must 'fight for their nation' as Taliban gains

Taliban insurgents tightened their grip on captured Afghan territory on Tuesday, now controlling 65% of the country, as U.S. President Joe Biden urged the nation's leaders to fight for their homeland.

www.reuters.com

According to reuters, that makes 7 in the past week.

I know this will sound crass to many - I do not mean to sound immature, nor do I intend to offend any of my friends on this board. (Which I - as cheesy as it sounds - think of most of you as friends.)

But gosh I wish the solution was as simple as:

• Go identify who genuine bad guys are
• Kill them
• Eliminate their ability to influence people via religion, religious schools, fear, pressure, coercion, etc.

^^ That right there would be the winning factor. And at the same time as that, do what we were doing - just more focused, with longer term goals in mind. The Taliban staying dead would be key.

• Hire locals to rebuild country into a ‘somewhat’ modern country, even if very much 2nd world.
• Develop an economic system that resists corruption via its structure, start development of local industries, to at least get some momentum in the right direction
• Assist when required, where required.

The Taliban being able to recruit, respawn, and move back into an area once we leave… it screws up the above. Just wish they’d stay dead and disorganized instead of constantly being able to ‘bounce back with a vengeance’ as they seem quite able to do.

Genuinely frustrating, as I know many other vets across NATO feel the same way many of us do.


I do find Biden’s “It’s your country, you have to fight for it” attitude to be somewhat arrogant, to be honest. If NATO was going after them for 20 years with enthusiasm, with SOF, strike aircraft, helicopters, advanced UAVs, satellites & cell towers intercepting enemy IComm, etc etc - and we weren’t able to eliminate them… asking the Afghans to do it just seems like a “meh, sounds like a you problem” attitude.

^ I don’t blame him for wanting to be done with the mess, and we can’t leave troops there forever. I don’t know what the long term solution is.

 

[CBH99]

Possible solution…

Pick a Taliban leader/group that has enough influence to be useful, but aren’t so religiously focused as to not be open to slow change.

Put them in power, as a somewhat controllable puppet regime. They get some very discreet western support ON THE CONDITION that they tone down the violent bulls**t, and allow for some basic things to start happening.

Won’t allow the country to move forwards at all? No support. And be prepared to be replaced once assassinated/removed, or they step down, etc.


We find creative reasons to do business with the likes of China and Saudi Arabia. We’ve hired, supplied, and paid for “freedom fighters” to overthrow regimes before, even dragging Gadaffi’s body through the streets. We’ve put evil pricks in power in Iran because they agreed to be friendly to our oil interests at the time. Etc etc.

Is it possible to do with Afghanistan? Or is the US walking away because the negotiations don’t appear to suggest that as an option?

 

[daftandbarmy]

I know this will sound crass to many - I do not mean to sound immature, nor do I intend to offend any of my friends on this board. (Which I - as cheesy as it sounds - think of most of you as friends.)

But gosh I wish the solution was as simple as:

• Go identify who genuine bad guys are
• Kill them
• Eliminate their ability to influence people via religion, religious schools, fear, pressure, coercion, etc.

We've just spent a couple of decades, and about a trillion bucks and quite a few lives, trying to do just that. The Russians tried the same thing in the 80s, and the British before that.

IIRC that the best approach to Afghanistan is to sit back and watch, smite the occasional AQ cell that pops up from a safe distance, and resist 'do gooder' efforts to get more involved than that.

 

[CBH99]

We've just spent a couple of decades, and about a trillion bucks and quite a few lives, trying to do just that. The Russians tried the same thing in the 80s, and the British before that.

IIRC that the best approach to Afghanistan is to sit back and watch, smite the occasional AQ cell that pops up from a safe distance, and resist 'do gooder' efforts to get more involved than that.

Agree completely. I guess my main point was “wish they would stay dead.”

Just so frustrated to see the Taliban make such a strong comeback, so quickly. And the ANA be driven out so quickly.

 

[OldSolduer]

Agree completely. I guess my main point was “wish they would stay dead.”

Just so frustrated to see the Taliban make such a strong comeback, so quickly. And the ANA be driven out so quickly.

You can thank Pakistan and by extension the Chinese for that.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Agree completely. I guess my main point was “wish they would stay dead.”

Just so frustrated to see the Taliban make such a strong comeback, so quickly. And the ANA be driven out so quickly.

Eastern cultures look at turn of events like this quite differently from our 'simpleton' western views of 'winning and losing'.

That doesn't make it any easier to watch, of course, but it's a good example of what Kipling was talking about when he wrote: 'East is East and West is West and never the twains shall meet....'

 

[Brad Sallows]

An opportunity for revolutionary change is an opportunity for everyone who cares to try. There is no "we'll sweep out X and bring in Y, and no other competing interests". To be the agent of the opportunity is to be taken advantage of by everyone with an agenda. Don't be the agent. A costly lesson, for the Nth time. Will it stick?

 

[quadrapiper]

Possible solution…

Pick a Taliban leader/group that has enough influence to be useful, but aren’t so religiously focused as to not be open to slow change.

Put them in power, as a somewhat controllable puppet regime. They get some very discreet western support ON THE CONDITION that they tone down the violent bulls**t, and allow for some basic things to start happening.

Won’t allow the country to move forwards at all? No support. And be prepared to be replaced once assassinated/removed, or they step down, etc.


We find creative reasons to do business with the likes of China and Saudi Arabia. We’ve hired, supplied, and paid for “freedom fighters” to overthrow regimes before, even dragging Gadaffi’s body through the streets. We’ve put evil pricks in power in Iran because they agreed to be friendly to our oil interests at the time. Etc etc.

Is it possible to do with Afghanistan? Or is the US walking away because the negotiations don’t appear to suggest that as an option?

Wasn't there an opportunity to do something like this years ago, with the IIRC Northern Alliance?

 

[Colin Parkinson]

The obsession with keeping Afghanistan intact as is may be the problem. Let the various ethnic groups join up with the neighbours they want to be with. Iran gets Herat, the Stan's get the Northern bits and the Pastun's form Pastunstan and then they can happily fight Pakistan for the rest of the NWF. Maybe the Balochs form their own country as well at some point.

 

[stoker dave]

Maybe there is no 'military' solution to Afghanistan. I say that when the people of Afghanistan are tired of war, fighting, conflict, destruction and poverty, then maybe there will be an opportunity to help them build the society we all want for them.