Liberal (Minority/Majority) Government 2025 - ???

[Halifax Tar]

So no NATO, no JEF?

You might have me at NATO. JEF, hard no.

But only so much as to keep the North Atlantic sea land open. Withdrawal of all ground and air forces.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

You might have me at NATO. JEF, hard no.

But only so much as to keep the North Atlantic sea land open. Withdrawal of all ground and air forces.

Fine, but if free trade and opening the SLOC are our two things, we have to get a Navy that can do that - and that's more than tripling what we have right now, likely to about 60 ships, with aircraft carriers and submarine support. Hell! That's almost what we had at the height of the cold war in the 60"s.

Fun fact here (to relieve the tension): The reference to member's possession North of the Tropic of Cancer is the reason the Brits could not call on the other NATO members when the Falkland war started. Just thought you ought to know.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Fine, but if free trade and opening the SLOC are our two things, we have to get a Navy that can do that - and that's more than tripling what we have right now, likely to about 60 ships, with aircraft carriers and submarine support. Hell! That's almost what we had at the height of the cold war in the 60"s.

Yes.

Canada should trade with anyone, while walking softly and carrying a big nuke.

 

[Eaglelord17]

Yes.

Canada should trade with anyone, while walking softly and carrying a big nuke.

I can be sold on the nuclear Swiss option. That includes not getting involved in America’s nonsense too.

 

[Czech_pivo]

You might have me at NATO. JEF, hard no.

But only so much as to keep the North Atlantic sea land open. Withdrawal of all ground and air forces.

JEF sounds like something we’d want to be involved with.
Greenland - Iceland - UK - Norway waterways.

 

[Halifax Tar]

JEF sounds like something we’d want to be involved with.
Greenland - Iceland - UK - Norway waterways.

If were already there with NATO why do we need JEF too ?

 

[Good2Golf]

If were already there with NATO why do we need JEF too ?

Why have NORAD as well? Or FVEYs?

 

[Czech_pivo]

If were already there with NATO why do we need JEF too ?

I would say then, Why did the UK create JEF then?

 

[PPCLI Guy]

I would imagine that the JEF will be much akin to the AMF(L) or ARRC committments, which we have made in the past. Both provided a mission thread and theatre to focus training and commitments. I was part of AMF(L) in 3 VP, and part of the Lead Mechanised Battlegroup of the ARRC in 1 RGJ. 1st Can Div HQ frequently trained with the ARRC.

 

[PPCLI Guy]

I would say then, Why did the UK create JEF then?

Because after Brexit, they were no longer welcome in EU formations such as the EuroCorps. This gets them bacj in the "Defence of the EU" game, and tied to a specific strategic problem

 

[Czech_pivo]

Because after Brexit, they were no longer welcome in EU formations such as the EuroCorps. This gets them bacj in the "Defence of the EU" game, and tied to a specific strategic problem

But because NATO get them all except Eurocorps?

 

[PPCLI Guy]

NATO means US leadership. The JEF is under Brit leadership, comprised of European TCNs.

The Brits are being spurned by the US, and is no longer part of the EU. They have lost a lot of relevance for a P5 Nation.....whose nuclear capability is subject to US control.

So they have to decide if they want to be part of a branch plant with no real say, or build their own company?

 

[Czech_pivo]

NATO means US leadership. The JEF is under Brit leadership, comprised of European TCNs.

The Brits are being spurned by the US, and is no longer part of the EU. They have lost a lot of relevance for a P5 Nation.....whose nuclear capability is subject to US control.

So they have to decide if they want to be part of a branch plant with no real say, or build their own company?

Maybe they are looking g for a new best friend or two?

 

[Furniture]

If were already there with NATO why do we need JEF too ?

Well, one of the things you learn in Ottawa is that NATO is very limiting in what can be done in it's framework. For example, if we want weather products from our NATO allies, we need to be on a NATO operation. A Canadian ship sailing around Europe can't just get access to NATO weather services, unless it is chopped into a NATO TG. So we have agreements with the UK and Germany to share weather data.

If we are that difficult about weather, we are even more difficult on other topics. That's why JEF, NORAD, etc., exist.

 

[dapaterson]

Well, one of the things you learn in Ottawa is that NATO is very limiting in what can be done in it's framework. For example, if we want weather products from our NATO allies, we need to be on a NATO operation. A Canadian ship sailing around Europe can't just get access to NATO weather services, unless it is chopped into a NATO TG. So we have agreements with the UK and Germany to share weather data.

If we are that difficult about weather, we are even more difficult on other topics. That's why JEF, NORAD, etc., exist.

An organisation dominated by Europeans is heavily bureaucratic?

 

[daftandbarmy]

An organisation dominated by Europeans is heavily bureaucratic?

Ironically, so bureaucratic that the country who invented the term 'red tape' found it all too onerous and left in a huff...

 

[PPCLI Guy]

Ironically, so bureaucratic that the country who invented the term 'red tape' found it all too onerous and left in a huff...

If by huff you mean delusional mass psychosis responding to a question that didn't need to be asked, without bothering to understand any element of the problem, then huff it is.

Otherwise, they are sitting in a hole they dug nursing the foot they shot.

 

[daftandbarmy]

If by huff you mean delusional mass psychosis responding to a question that didn't need to be asked, without bothering to understand any element of the problem, then huff it is.

Otherwise, they are sitting in a hole they dug nursing the foot they shot.

So ... we can put you down as a 'remainer' then?

 

[Good2Golf]

If by huff you mean delusional mass psychosis responding to a question that didn't need to be asked, without bothering to understand any element of the problem, then huff it is.

Otherwise, they are sitting in a hole they dug nursing the foot they shot.

For what it’s worth, David Cameron is really, really sorry about how it all played out…

David Cameron Is Sorry. Really, Really Sorry. (Published 2019)

The former British prime minister, David Cameron, a self-described “doubter and worrier and niggler,” is sorry about a lot of things, but most of all about Brexit.

www.nytimes.com

 

[QV]

If by huff you mean delusional mass psychosis responding to a question that didn't need to be asked, without bothering to understand any element of the problem, then huff it is.

Otherwise, they are sitting in a hole they dug nursing the foot they shot.

I suppose Norway snd Iceland have also then made critical errors not fulky becoming members of the EU, what could possibly convince whole countries to not want to join this premier union of states?