Author Topic: BFT for CIC Officers.  (Read 107247 times)

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Offline Scott

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Re: BFT for CIC Officers.
« Reply #50 on: November 15, 2011, 02:58:38 »
Please do tell me about CIC deployments. Do you mean to say members of the police force who donate their time to a youth organistaion; may deploy to foreign countries as part of the police force? Or for a trip in the way back when machine the Wavy Navy or something?

It's on the books, is what he means. Kinda like it's still on the books in some places that you can hitch your horse anywhere on a main street. Nobody uses it except to weakly try to bolster an argument, or to stir crap.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2011, 04:13:59 by Scott »
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Offline Kalatzi

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Re: BFT for CIC Officers.
« Reply #51 on: November 15, 2011, 03:58:11 »
Umm, Grimaldus - Hellooo

"It's like the reserves in a way. In theory the CDS should be able to say regiments #1,2,3 and 5 pack your gear you're deploying.   You might get a section of guys, or maybe a couple of sections, but a lot of people are gonna say 'ya right, good luck with that'.
People who aren't physically fit, people who have tons of administrative issues and people who just wanna work 4 weeknights a month."

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Way back when, even before the "Decade of Darkness", There used to be an organition called `The Militia`

I will try to phrase this in a positive manner.

These class A bumpkins used to get slotted onto all sorts of Reg Forces Ops Missions eg Cypus, Reforger etc on roughly two weeks notice







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Offline Haggis

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Re: BFT for CIC Officers.
« Reply #52 on: November 15, 2011, 11:28:34 »
TANGENT ALERT
9 times out of 10 when we do our BFT in the reserves guys just throw a ruck on their back and claw and bite their way through it.  Our members aren't brought in and paid to do any sort of work up training.  What happens if a Class A guy tries it and goes down with an injury.  I'd imagine CIC in the same boat.


IMO, any Reservist who just shows up and does a BFT "cold",  without workup training is a fool.   I've done it when the C of C has sprung a short notice requirement for a BFT on me  (i.e. Op CADENCE).  But, it's not the right thing to do.

It violates the entire premise of the BFT if you do it cold and are so f**ked  up the next two or three days that you can hardly walk.  The intent is to arrive at the battle fit to fight.  Not needing two or three days to recover.  But I digress.

All Class A Reservists should have either a DND 279 or LFCO 24-02 Annex A, Appendix 1 form filled out, signed and filed.  This protects them by ensuring that the physical fitness activites they are engaged in are recognized for pension purposes.  In addition, if you are engaging in activites not listed on either form, submit a memo to your chain of command requesting "permission to participate in non-standard physical fitness training activities" and identify what you are intending to do.  Once approved, you should be covered.

If a Class A Reservist is injured doing an authorized BFT, s/he is entitled to emergency medical care by the CF and Reserve Force Compensation under CBI 210.72.

If a Class A Reservist is injured doing authorized BFT workup training, PAID OR UNPAID, s/he is considered "on duty" and is eligible for Reserve Force Compensation as detailed in CANFORGEN 115/08.

TANGENT ALERT ENDS
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Offline dapaterson

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Re: BFT for CIC Officers.
« Reply #53 on: November 15, 2011, 11:49:50 »

If a Class A Reservist is injured doing authorized BFT workup training, PAID OR UNPAID, s/he is considered "on duty" and is eligible for Reserve Force Compensation as detailed in CANFORGEN 115/08.


A Class A Reservist on duty is entitled to pay.  Full stop.  There is no such thing as unpaid duty.  CBI 204.51 is clear that "...an officer or non-commissioned member shall be paid..."

That senior leaders refuse to pay for BFT workup training is a moral and legal failing on their part.

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Offline Brasidas

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Re: BFT for CIC Officers.
« Reply #54 on: November 15, 2011, 12:21:16 »
A Class A Reservist on duty is entitled to pay.  Full stop.  There is no such thing as unpaid duty.  CBI 204.51 is clear that "...an officer or non-commissioned member shall be paid..."

That senior leaders refuse to pay for BFT workup training is a moral and legal failing on their part.

Kids in university have midterms and often get worried about school. Units should and do encourage them to show up for the dates they can do so. Units can and do book BFT's on their behalf on some day other than when the majority of the unit does it, so that that member can still get the qualification. They don't have to conduct workup training on the unique schedule of the member.

If they can not make it out to workup training for the BFT, they can do it on their own time and be covered for injuries sustained while doing so. Our unit so informs the member.

Offline Haggis

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Re: BFT for CIC Officers.
« Reply #55 on: November 15, 2011, 12:34:03 »
A Class A Reservist on duty is entitled to pay.  Full stop.  There is no such thing as unpaid duty.  CBI 204.51 is clear that "...an officer or non-commissioned member shall be paid..."

Agreed, but you're missing the point of CANFORGEN 115/08.  The intent is to ensure that Class A Reservists who are doing PT on their own time to meet CF requirements are covered if they are injured while doing so.

That senior leaders refuse to pay for BFT workup training is a moral and legal failing on their part.

Now that the Army Reserve has essentially done away with most (but not all) Class A fitness requirements by way of CANLANDGEN 026/11, the need to invoke the protection of CANFORGEN 115/08 and benefits of CBI 210.72 should be reduced. :)
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Offline dogger1936

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Re: BFT for CIC Officers.
« Reply #56 on: November 15, 2011, 14:14:13 »
It's on the books, is what he means. Kinda like it's still on the books in some places that you can hitch your horse anywhere on a main street. Nobody uses it except to weakly try to bolster an argument, or to stir crap.

Seen. Thought so.

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Offline Xfire

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Re: BFT for CIC Officers.
« Reply #57 on: November 27, 2011, 08:54:55 »
i dont get why people on here are crying about BFT workup! frig, ive seen guys including myself do 2 or 3  BFTs in a month of each other without any work up.  stop crying and be a damn soldier...
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Offline Scott

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Re: BFT for CIC Officers.
« Reply #58 on: November 27, 2011, 09:53:38 »
i dont get why people on here are crying about BFT workup! frig, ive seen guys including myself do 2 or 3  BFTs in a month of each other without any work up.  stop crying and be a damn soldier...

Eh? Don't know where you get that out of this thread but whatever....

Oh, wait, you were trolling there! I get it!
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Offline ----

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Re: BFT for CIC Officers.
« Reply #59 on: November 27, 2011, 17:39:03 »
Just read this all today, and not to dig it up too much but Rubber C7 or real thing. If that were ever aimed improperly or held in a direction deemed unsafe by the perceptions of any citizen even driving by...it could cause quite an issue.

I like to think that most if not all CIC (having had several cadet and staff cadet time working with them when younger) are responsible and would not point  the rubber C7 in any unsafe directions on purpose. But the point I'm making is that anyone walking by or around them won't know the difference between a rubber one, one without a bolt, or one with a bolt, a full mag and safety off.

I am curious (may have been mentioned in original post so I'll have to check) to know if this was a ruck march on a base or out in the world. Sometimes I see personnel (I assume PRes) doing ruck marches in Ottawa.


On a personal note and admin or regulation issues aside, good on you for broadening your fitness abilities by doing the BFT.
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Offline Strike

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Re: BFT for CIC Officers.
« Reply #60 on: November 27, 2011, 19:35:15 »
Rogo - when a unit does a BFT off military property they will usually issue a public service announcement.  In that PSA it will mention whether or not they are carrying real riffles and that there is NO ammunition.
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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: BFT for CIC Officers.
« Reply #61 on: November 27, 2011, 19:50:39 »
Rogo - when a unit does a BFT off military property they will usually issue a public service announcement.  In that PSA it will mention whether or not they are carrying real riffles and that there is NO ammunition.

I was always told that we don't announce whether or not the weapons we are carrying are real and whether we have ammunition or not for security reasons.
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Re: BFT for CIC Officers.
« Reply #62 on: November 28, 2011, 12:18:58 »
Rogo - when a unit does a BFT off military property they will usually issue a public service announcement.  In that PSA it will mention whether or not they are carrying real riffles and that there is NO ammunition.

Regardless, not everyone will see such an announcement and all it takes is one incident and a call to a radio station or a news source or even the dreaded facebook and the issue is out there.  Fake weapons or not, people won't know the difference.
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Offline Haggis

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Re: BFT for CIC Officers.
« Reply #63 on: November 28, 2011, 12:34:03 »
Sometimes I see personnel (I assume PRes) doing ruck marches in Ottawa.

Lots of members do ruck marches in the Ottawa area.  Most are Army (Reg F and P Res) but some are RCN and RCAF looking for another way to stay in shape or prep for a deployment.  My Capt(N) and RCAF Major routinely come out with me.  Good way to "talk shop" and do some workup training at the same time. 
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Offline Strike

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Re: BFT for CIC Officers.
« Reply #64 on: November 28, 2011, 12:45:08 »
Regardless, not everyone will see such an announcement and all it takes is one incident and a call to a radio station or a news source or even the dreaded facebook and the issue is out there.  Fake weapons or not, people won't know the difference.

Except that said radio and news source would have the PSA in hand.  And if a person were to post something on FB, then all it takes is one of their friends who actually reads the paper to copy and paste the PSA to buddy's thread.
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Offline Robert0288

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Re: BFT for CIC Officers.
« Reply #65 on: November 28, 2011, 17:44:07 »
Lots of members do ruck marches in the Ottawa area.  Most are Army (Reg F and P Res) but some are RCN and RCAF looking for another way to stay in shape or prep for a deployment.  My Capt(N) and RCAF Major routinely come out with me.  Good way to "talk shop" and do some workup training at the same time.

I know that myself and a couple other people at my unit (PRes) ruck down from moonyes bay through vincent massy park to bronson, around Carleton U then back up the canal on strange days.  Nice route, minor variation in elevation and the only thing you have to worry about is some crazy guy on a bike.  Also there are some units downtown who go up the canal to Dows lake and back hitting 13km as well.

Offline Pusser

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Re: BFT for CIC Officers.
« Reply #66 on: November 29, 2011, 21:22:56 »
I know that myself and a couple other people at my unit (PRes) ruck down from moonyes bay through vincent massy park to bronson, around Carleton U then back up the canal on strange days.  Nice route, minor variation in elevation and the only thing you have to worry about is some crazy guy on a bike.  Also there are some units downtown who go up the canal to Dows lake and back hitting 13km as well.

Hey!  I'm that crazy guy on the bike!  And I rang my bell.

I did see a guy in CADPAT carrying a rifle awhile ago all by himself.  I actually did call the MPs because I thought it was suspicious.  A group would make sense, but one guy?  It made me think about the problems we had in Toronto a number of years ago.  It seems one regiment in particular in the Toronto Garrison had problems with guys joining and disappearing with all their kit - until found by the police in High Park stalking the tourists...
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Offline Robert0288

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Re: BFT for CIC Officers.
« Reply #67 on: November 29, 2011, 21:51:10 »
There were more than a few that didn't :P  Where you the one who also said "13 more km to go troops" or something along those lines as you past by?  I had 2 people do that. 
I would be a little concerned about the guy with a rifle all by himself too as 1) Troops don't normally get left behind all by themselves, or atleast without a safety vehicle or something within earshot. 2) Even during work up training I would expect them to bring somone else with them, or atleast leave the rifle back in the armory.

Offline Mike5

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Re: BFT for CIC Officers.
« Reply #68 on: November 30, 2011, 09:32:44 »
Following this thread with some interest.  Are there any Canadian Forces sponsored events that civilians can participate in ... along the lines of the Marine Corps Marathon in the US?
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Offline God56

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Re: BFT for CIC Officers.
« Reply #69 on: November 30, 2011, 10:02:42 »
I did the BFT with the Essex and Scottish
 
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Offline Haggis

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Re: BFT for CIC Officers.
« Reply #70 on: November 30, 2011, 11:13:46 »
Following this thread with some interest.  Are there any Canadian Forces sponsored events that civilians can participate in ... along the lines of the Marine Corps Marathon in the US?

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Re: BFT for CIC Officers.
« Reply #73 on: December 07, 2011, 14:29:46 »
Please do tell me about CIC deployments. Do you mean to say members of the police force who donate their time to a youth organistaion; may deploy to foreign countries as part of the police force? Or for a trip in the way back when machine the Wavy Navy or something?

Not "exactly the same thing, but civilian cops non the less:
http://www.afghanistan.gc.ca/canada-afghanistan/police.aspx?lang=eng&view=d

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Re: BFT for CIC Officers.
« Reply #74 on: December 07, 2011, 16:49:22 »
Not "exactly the same thing, but civilian cops non the less:
http://www.afghanistan.gc.ca/canada-afghanistan/police.aspx?lang=eng&view=d

 :piper:

So you agree....CIC members have not deployed to Afghanistan as CIC members.

It is not "not exactly the same thing"................it's not at all.