Author Topic: Trades Acceptable for Pilot Transfer  (Read 41418 times)

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Offline David L

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Trades Acceptable for Pilot Transfer
« on: February 15, 2012, 13:36:35 »
Hi Everyone,

I just got told that I was not competitive enough on my transcript for pilot, but I did qualify for AEC. I read in an earlier post that its possible to transfer from ACSO to pilot later on, is this the same for any other trades.

Any feed back would help,

Thnx

Offline David L

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Re: Trades Acceptable for Pilot Transfer
« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2012, 13:41:06 »
Also Nav is excepted as a suitable transfer option to pilot as well I've read.

Offline Jimmy_D

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Re: Trades Acceptable for Pilot Transfer
« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2012, 13:47:01 »
Formerly know as Nav is now ACSO
"You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life."      -       Winston Churchill

Offline David L

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Re: Trades Acceptable for Pilot Transfer
« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2012, 13:49:41 »
Didnt know that thnx.

Offline LOLslamball

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Re: Trades Acceptable for Pilot Transfer
« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2012, 14:03:45 »
Hi David L,

Are you appling ROTP?

The same thing happened to me in November.  I thought about it a lot and decided that being in the forces was more important to me than being a pilot.

There is no guarantee that you will be able to switch trades, and if you do have the opportunity to switch, pilot may not be open. 

If you really really want to be a pilot, in my opinion, your best bet would be to work on your application and apply next year, you be guaranteed to be a pilot much sooner, rather than possibly being stuck in a trade you'll dislike.

For me the choice to go to AEC was because at the time I couldn't imagine being in the back seat of a plane (as an ACSO) for 25 years watching people fly it, when that is what I would want to be doing.


Offline David L

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Re: Trades Acceptable for Pilot Transfer
« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2012, 14:21:23 »
Yeah Im applying for ROTP, I have a medical booked for next week and than Air Crew Selection after that. I would reapply but this application process has been an ongoing theme for me for the past few years. Also I wouldnt be eligible for ROTP next year since its my second year of university.

Have you done your Air Crew Selection yet

Offline Pusser

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Re: Trades Acceptable for Pilot Transfer
« Reply #6 on: February 15, 2012, 14:44:40 »
Also Nav is excepted as a suitable transfer option to pilot as well I've read.

Do you realize that what you've actually said here is not likely what you meant?  I think the word you wanted is "accepted."  What you have said is that a Nav (ACSO) would NOT be suitable option to pilot.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but pilots are officers and as such are expected to be able to communicate well in both their written and verbal work (this has become increasingly true for NCMs as well, particularly in the last decade).  You need to watch your syntax, grammar and spelling.  Although I've only pointed out one mistake, you've made a few others.  If, on the other hand, you actually intended to imply that ACSOs cannot become pilots (some would argue they're far too intelligent  ;D), then I apologize and you may disregard my comments.
Sure, apes read Nietzsche.  They just don't understand it.

Offline LOLslamball

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Re: Trades Acceptable for Pilot Transfer
« Reply #7 on: February 15, 2012, 14:52:11 »
I was on the first Air Crew Selection for AEC at the start of January. 

I was found suitable but not competitive for pilot in my interview.

I could have worked hard on my application to maybe get a shot at pilot, if I was lucky.  But like I said, after hearing about AEC and considering for a few weeks it I am extremely excited for a possible career as an AEC in the CF.


How hard have you been working on your application over the past few years? Have you gotten your PPL? Volunteered and excelled at team sports?
If you have, then by all means look to transfer, but if you haven't then I guess you should ask yourself how bad you want it.  And remember that you will be competing against others who have all of those things in their application, just to transfer over. 

Edit: spell check can't fix everything
« Last Edit: February 15, 2012, 15:38:40 by LOLslamball »

Offline David L

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Re: Trades Acceptable for Pilot Transfer
« Reply #8 on: February 15, 2012, 15:39:24 »
I actually have a really good case for Pilot besides my High School transcript. I know academics plays a big role in the decision making. As for aircrew selection were you sent with only AECs or other aircrew trades as well and if so were you all doing the same testing or assigned specific testing for specific trades because I dont know what to expect now for AEC. Is there other stuff besides the CAPSS I need to know or do I even need to know CAPSS at all

BTW I love the Linden, Mclain Picture  :)

Offline LOLslamball

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Re: Trades Acceptable for Pilot Transfer
« Reply #9 on: February 15, 2012, 15:59:37 »
I was told that my high school marks are not considered because I have completed a certain number of university credits, so only my university average would be taken.  Maybe high school marks can't help your application, only hurt it?  I am just speculating.

I was sent only with AEC's because that was the only trade listed on my application.  It was one day of tests (About 3 hours)

CAPSS stands for Canadian Automated Pilot Selection System, so it is only for pilots, and no, you do not have to know it for AEC selection.


Yeah, that picture was such a great shot.  After game 7 vs Calgary in '94.  Just how it took everything they had to win.

Offline LOLslamball

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Re: Trades Acceptable for Pilot Transfer
« Reply #10 on: February 15, 2012, 16:02:36 »
Sorry, I missed the second half of your question.

I know of three different tests. 

The pilot selection (CAPSS) which is a simulator that takes 3 days.

The AEC selection which is a series of tests that takes just over 3 hours.

and The ACSO selection which can be done at a recruiting centre, or at the ASC.  I believe it is a series (or one big) aptitude test(s) using pen and paper.

Offline David L

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Re: Trades Acceptable for Pilot Transfer
« Reply #11 on: February 15, 2012, 16:52:06 »
Youve been a lot of help, thank you very much. Im guessing you didnt go the ROTP route if your highschool transcript didnt matter. As for the series of tests that take 3 hours for AEC, do I need to brush up on my math or what would you say would prepare me the most for it

Offline LOLslamball

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Re: Trades Acceptable for Pilot Transfer
« Reply #12 on: February 15, 2012, 19:16:41 »
I am applying through ROTP and I am in my second year of university.

The tests for AEC are new this year for applicants and I am not sure what I am allowed to say about them.  It would be hard for me to tell you how to study for them without telling you exactly what is on them.

Ask your MCC, they will help you as much as they're allowed.

Offline David L

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Re: Trades Acceptable for Pilot Transfer
« Reply #13 on: February 15, 2012, 22:10:36 »
Im guessing my University transcript wasnt as competitive from the sounds of it. I was told in my interview as well that most applicants that do apply for pilot have prior flying experience as well, and are pretty much A students.

If you dont mind me asking what are you studying in school


Offline trampbike

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Re: Trades Acceptable for Pilot Transfer
« Reply #14 on: February 16, 2012, 10:47:52 »
I was told in my interview as well that most applicants that do apply for pilot have prior flying experience as well,

PFE is just one more thing that improves your application. It's not a requirement at all. You can score points in many different ways. Work experience, sports, and other things where initiative and leadership are required matter too. A lot of people without any PFE pass the CAPSS and are selected for pilot. Many pilots have 0h in their logbooks when they begin PFT and pass.

When I went to ASC, the 7 of us all passed the CAPSS and the medical in Toronto. 2 of theses guys had 0h of flying time, 1 had time in a powered hang glider he owned (like a Trike), 1 had some glider time, 2 had about 20h in a Cessna and I had about 150h in a couple of different types. 5 out of the 7 were selected for pilot through ROTP. The Trike owner (who also currently was serving in the CF) and one of the non-flyer were not selected. As for me, I did not feel that my flying experience helped me for CAPSS. The thing is a testing device, not a flight simulator. You would not want to be in the air in something that flies like de CAPSS does!
Knowing your instruments well before going sure is a good thing, but even if you don't, the introductory lessons in the CAPSS before the big final "mission" are very simple and explain everything that needs to be explained.

and are pretty much A students.

On average, it might be true, I don't know. However, I know my high school average was below 90.
My CEGEP (Qu├ębec's two year school that you go to after high school and before university) was not something to be proud of. I had some awesome marks in subjects that interested me (and they were few!), close to average in those that did not, and a final mark that was less than 20% in two courses that I stopped attending.
I had one year of university completed when I applied, and my average was a bit above B+.

Offline David L

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Re: Trades Acceptable for Pilot Transfer
« Reply #15 on: February 16, 2012, 11:30:05 »
My academics is where I feel I lost a lot of points. Whats funny is that I will have a 2.8 GPA by the end of the school year, I know thats not high, but I guess a B is not acceptable. I had a couple of really bad classes in my first year of university and I wasnt that competitive in my first few years of high school at all. The captain that was interviewing me told me that most applicants are A average students. Its a really shitty feeling but I guess I have no one else to blame but myself for that.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2012, 11:40:32 by David L »

Offline David L

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Re: Trades Acceptable for Pilot Transfer
« Reply #16 on: February 16, 2012, 11:44:28 »
BTW are you in the Science field at all?? I believe those that are in the sciences get graded higher than those that are not.

Offline LOLslamball

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Re: Trades Acceptable for Pilot Transfer
« Reply #17 on: February 16, 2012, 14:06:49 »
My academics is where I feel I lost a lot of points. Whats funny is that I will have a 2.8 GPA by the end of the school year, I know thats not high, but I guess a B is not acceptable. I had a couple of really bad classes in my first year of university and I wasnt that competitive in my first few years of high school at all. The captain that was interviewing me told me that most applicants are A average students. Its a really shitty feeling but I guess I have no one else to blame but myself for that.


You also have to remember that pilot is by far the most applied for trade.

I don't know how far you live from your recruiting centre, but I would check out some other trades and think about what is important to you.  Is it being in the Air Force, not being in the Army, being around aircraft, working on a ship, having as much time at home as the forces allow, constantly travelling/deploying, having postings out of country, etc.

After that it is much easier to find out which trades fit the lifestyle you want to have.  And if all you want to be is a pilot, then maybe work really hard on getting your grades up and apply DEO.

Then ask your MCC what his/her trade is (if you haven't already) and also ask if there are any other MCCs at the recruiting centre who you can talk to about a trade you are interested in.


For me I spoke with an Air Weapons Controller and other than the actual work, which I believe to be right up my alley, the opportunity for postings (Travelling but still staying with your family) was what drew me to the occupation.  Also being in aviation and the fact that both the IFR and VFR training are valid in the civy world were factors as well. (I know weapons controllers wouldn't do IFR or VFR training, but there is no guarantee I would get weapons if I get an offer)


Offline David L

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Re: Trades Acceptable for Pilot Transfer
« Reply #18 on: February 16, 2012, 16:54:10 »
Yeah, I know with AEC theres a mandatory enrollment of four years in the forces as for pilot theres a minimum of ten years service. Also if Im not mistaken AEC's are more stationary at air force bases compared to pilots.

My girlfriend of two years also seems to like the AEC option a lot better than the pilot positon.

Ive also talked to a couple of people that are working AEC in civilian life and seem to be doing very good for themselves. But it really seems you've done your homework when it comes to different trades and what it takes to achieve them.

All the Best to you,

Cheers.

Offline trampbike

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Re: Trades Acceptable for Pilot Transfer
« Reply #19 on: February 16, 2012, 17:17:37 »
BTW are you in the Science field at all?? I believe those that are in the sciences get graded higher than those that are not.

I'm am doing a degree in atmospheric physics, also known as meteorology (but we hate using that term, since people think that what a meteorologist does is to present the weather on television).


I believe those that are in the sciences get graded higher than those that are not.

Stop believing things that makes you worry about things over which you have no control. Ask your CFRC for the degrees that are ok for pilot. They have a nice chart for this. Pretty much every degrees are accepted. They say science and engineering degrees are the preferred choices, but we just can't know if it affects your application or not, so don't worry about it.


Yeah, I know with AEC theres a mandatory enrollment of four years in the forces as for pilot theres a minimum of ten years service.

Once you get your Wings, minimum time is 7 years.


My girlfriend of two years also seems to like the AEC option a lot better than the pilot positon.

If you mean that she would prefer to become an AEC rather than a pilot herself, then good for her.
If you mean she would prefer that you become an AEC instead of pilot, then I'd recommend you really ask yourself: "On what grounds is she basing her opinion? What does she really know about the jobs?" before taking her opinion into account. I know for a fact that I had a very different perception of many military job before I joined.
If you mean that she does not like the "pilot position", then I have to admit I'm not familiar with this position, but I'm guessing it involves a stick, a well lubricated engine and a lot of G's? Sounds fun.

Offline David L

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Re: Trades Acceptable for Pilot Transfer
« Reply #20 on: February 16, 2012, 17:24:23 »
Yeah, she believes that AEC's have more of a stationary position compared to pilots which I give her credit for. Even though AEC's are expected to be deployed at a moments notice, there not as frequently mobile as their pilot counterparts would be.


Offline Dimsum

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Re: Trades Acceptable for Pilot Transfer
« Reply #21 on: February 16, 2012, 17:27:14 »
Yeah, I know with AEC theres a mandatory enrollment of four years in the forces as for pilot theres a minimum of ten years service. Also if Im not mistaken AEC's are more stationary at air force bases compared to pilots.

My girlfriend of two years also seems to like the AEC option a lot better than the pilot positon.

Ive also talked to a couple of people that are working AEC in civilian life and seem to be doing very good for themselves. But it really seems you've done your homework when it comes to different trades and what it takes to achieve them.

All the Best to you,

Cheers.

It depends what you mean by "stationary" in a base.  Most (not all) AECs are on a ground job, whether in IFR, VFR or Weapons, but generally are on a shift-work schedule.  Some Weapons guys do fly in AWACS planes (E-3 Sentry) out of Elmendorf Alaska, Tinker Oklahoma, and Geilenkirchen, Germany (not sure about the last one anymore.) 

So yes, AECs generally don't deploy as much as aircrew would, but the shift schedule may mean that you two don't see each other a lot either, depending on her work schedule.
Philip II of Macedon to Spartans (346 BC):  "You are advised to submit without further delay, for if I bring my army into your land, I will destroy your farms, slay your people, and raze your city."

Reply:  "If."

Offline Pusser

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Re: Trades Acceptable for Pilot Transfer
« Reply #22 on: February 16, 2012, 21:30:53 »
Where are folks getting figures of seven or ten years of required service for pilots from?  Rectal pluck?
Sure, apes read Nietzsche.  They just don't understand it.

Offline trampbike

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Re: Trades Acceptable for Pilot Transfer
« Reply #23 on: February 17, 2012, 12:44:57 »
Unless it has changed in the past weeks, that's what was on my offer, which is kept safe in my rectal pluck.

Offline Wickes

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Re: Trades Acceptable for Pilot Transfer
« Reply #24 on: February 17, 2012, 13:28:41 »
Where are folks getting figures of seven or ten years of required service for pilots from?  Rectal pluck?

Post wings is 7 years restricted release.