Author Topic: NATO response to Russian sabre rattling  (Read 75412 times)

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Offline MarkOttawa

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NATO response to Russian sabre rattling
« on: April 03, 2015, 18:01:04 »
USAF BUFFing back, with RCAF involved in Arctic and even over North Sea:

Quote
POLAR GROWL strengthens Allied interoperability, essential bomber navigation skills

OFFUTT AIR FORCE BASE, Neb.  — Two B-52 Stratofortresses from the 5th Bomb Wing, Minot Air Force Base, N.D., and a pair from the 2nd Bomb Wing, Barksdale Air Force Base, La., completed today simultaneous, roundtrip sorties from their U.S. bases to the Arctic and North Sea regions, respectively…

Each of the two legs of POLAR GROWL provided unique training opportunities, all while testing the bomber force’s command and control apparatus’ ability to support two synchronized flight paths. The bomber crews flying the North Sea route participated in dissimilar air intercept maneuvers with fighter aircraft flown by the Royal Canadian Air Force, the U.K.’s Royal Air Force and the Royal Netherlands Air Force. In addition to conducting dissimilar air intercept maneuvers with Royal Canadian Air Force fighters, bomber crews on the Arctic leg of the mission transited around the North Pole, providing the crews invaluable training in polar navigation…

Flown in support of both U.S. European Command and U.S. Northern Command, POLAR GROWL was specifically designed to demonstrate U.S. commitment to Allies and enhancement of regional security, and not directed at any country [but love the mission name, eh? Grrr!]…
http://www.afgsc.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123444130

More here on four CF-18s deployed in Western Europe (Netherlands?):
http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/operations-abroad/nato-ee.page

Mark
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« Last Edit: April 04, 2015, 15:22:37 by milnews.ca »
Ça explique, mais ça n'excuse pas.

Offline MarkOttawa

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Re: NATO responce to Russian sabre rattling
« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2015, 13:05:38 »
From Canadian government, Hornets in W. Europe not involved:

Quote
Canadian NORAD Region conducts airspace defence training with United States Strategic Command

The Canadian NORAD Region (CANR) conducted comprehensive training yesterday [April2] in support of its mandate to detect, deter, and defend against all threats to North America’s sovereign airspace.

CANR conducted intercept and safe passage operations of two pairs of B-52 Stratofortress bombers returning from long range training flights through Canadian northern and eastern aerospace approaches.
Quick Facts

    CF-18 fighters were scrambled from 3 Wing in Bagotville, Québec, and 4 Wing in Cold Lake, Alberta, to intercept two B-52 Stratofortress bombers each in the northern and eastern extremity of the Canadian Air Defence Identification Zone (CADIZ) respectively.

    The B-52 Stratofortress bombers were operating as part of Exercise POLAR GROWL, a separate training event under the command of United States Strategic Command.

    NORAD KC-135 Stratotanker Air to Air Refuelers were launched from Fairchild Air Force Base in Spokane, Washington, and from Bangor Air National Guard Base in Bangor, Maine, to provide air-to-air refueling to the Canadian jets.

    The Canadian Air Defence Sector (CADS) from 22 Wing in North Bay, Ontario, conducted identification and aerospace control for the Canadian jets while they were conducting intercept training. CADS also ensured safe passage of the American B-52s through Canadian airspace once the training was completed...
http://news.gc.ca/web/article-en.do?nid=958479

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Offline MCG

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Re: NATO response to Russian sabre rattling
« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2015, 01:35:05 »
Estonia wants a bigger, permanent NATO presence to deter Russia.
Quote
Estonia seeks permanent Nato force
BBC News 
12 Apr 2015

Estonian President Toomas Ilves has called for a permanent Nato force to be stationed in his country.

Mr Ilves told the UK's Daily Telegraph newspaper that Estonia felt threatened by Russian military flights and exercises in the area, as well as by belligerent rhetoric from Moscow.

Currently the sole Nato contingent in Estonia is a 150-strong US infantry company, stationed temporarily.

Nato has pledged a 5,000-strong task force to defend vulnerable members.

According to Nato's founding charter, if a member country of the alliance is attacked every other member would be obliged to go to war in its defence.

But the 1997 Nato-Russia Founding Act forbids the presence of permanent bases in eastern and central Europe.

The Russian government meanwhile has said that it is concerned over moves by Finland and Sweden towards closer ties with the Nato.

Nordic defence ministers - also including Norway, Denmark and Iceland - agreed on Friday that Russia's recent behaviour was the gravest challenge to European security and that northern Europe must be prepared for a possible crisis.

But in a statement, the Russian foreign ministry warned that this could undermine co-operation in the region that had been developed over several decades.

Finland - which borders Russia - and Sweden are not Nato members but have increased co-operation with the alliance.

Mr Ilves told the newspaper that it was time for Nato to recognise that the security environment had changed since 1997 and that a brigade at the very least should be stationed in Estonia.

"One hundred and fifty soldiers is not a lot, so we do think that further stationing of troops at a higher number is only reasonable," he said.

"We get exercises [by Russia] that take place behind our borders that have 40,000 to 80,000 soldiers. Yet we are accused of escalating the situation... and Russia says that it will have to take counter-measures."

The Estonian president suggested that Russian troops could reach the Estonian capital Tallinn - just 218km (135 miles) from the Russian border at Narva - in just four hours.

Nato has said that a 5,000-strong rapid response force, pledged at the alliance's summit in Wales last September, could be deployed within 48 hours to protect Eastern European members in the event of Russian aggression.

"It's a great idea but it probably is, in terms of the realities, just too late," said Mr Ilves.

Estonia has a standing army of just 5,300 troops and relies on Nato to police its airspace.

In early 2014 Nato quadrupled its policing mission over the Baltic states from four to 16 fighter jets, a tiny fraction of Russia's combat aircraft numbers.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-32274170

Offline Oldgateboatdriver

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Re: NATO response to Russian sabre rattling
« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2015, 08:27:35 »
Anyone who has doubts about how far Putin and his regime is willing to go only needs to read articles of the last 15 years by Garry Kasparov, or follow his conferences on the subject.

I can't wait for his next book, titled "Winter is Coming: Why Vladimir Putin and the Enemies of the Free World Must be Stopped", to come out this summer/early fall.

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Re: NATO response to Russian sabre rattling
« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2015, 08:58:31 »
Anyone who has doubts about how far Putin and his regime is willing to go only needs to read articles of the last 15 years by Garry Kasparov, or follow his conferences on the subject.

I can't wait for his next book, titled "Winter is Coming: Why Vladimir Putin and the Enemies of the Free World Must be Stopped", to come out this summer/early fall.
Propagandistic drivel.  He's gone no where, but *we've* crept ever closer to him. 

So, there I was....

Offline Oldgateboatdriver

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Re: NATO response to Russian sabre rattling
« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2015, 09:47:05 »
Sorry, my bad, I apologize.

I didn't realize that it was our fault that Georgia was invaded by Russia, to create puppet states called Abkhazia and Ossetia, or annexed parts of Eastern Ukraine.

And lets face it, we forcibly expanded NATO by unilaterally annexing the old Eastern European countries of the Warsaw pact or at the very least threatening them with severe economic sanctions - such as cutting their fuel - if they didn't join.

And everybody knows that every time a member of NATO opens a base somewhere for its own purpose, it becomes a NATO base, which explains why NATO has bases in the Philippines, Japan, South-Korea, and so forth.

My bad again - I apologize.
 

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Re: NATO response to Russian sabre rattling
« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2015, 10:00:57 »
There are NATO bases all over Canada, threatening Russia's claim that anything with snow on it is Russia.   :rofl:
Apparently, a "USUAL SUSPECT"

“In peace there's nothing so becomes a man as modest stillness and humility; but when the blast of war blows in our ears, then imitate the action of the tiger; stiffen the sinews, summon up the blood, disguise fair nature with hard-favor'd rage.”

 Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and start slitting throats

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Re: NATO response to Russian sabre rattling
« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2015, 12:55:30 »
And lets face it, we forcibly expanded NATO by unilaterally annexing the old Eastern European countries of the Warsaw pact or at the very least threatening them with severe economic sanctions - such as cutting their fuel - if they didn't join.
In 1991 or so, when the USSR was collapsing, we (the West) assured they (the USSR/Russia) that we (the West) had no aims to "spread" to the East.


We've spread to the east. We could have said "no". 

It was the USSR that forcibly expanded West back in 1945.  They had grounds to build up a buffer.  How they did it of course we objected to (hence "NATO"). 

As far as I can tell, the fuel is still flowing to the West, but it is we who have expanded and it is we who are sanctioning them (right or wrong).

But if you think that Russia wants to expand to the West, you're mistaken. Do they want Sevastapol?  Damned right they do (see the agreements back in 1991 or so).   

They sure as hell aren't saints.  But neither are we. 
So, there I was....

Online Chris Pook

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Re: NATO response to Russian sabre rattling
« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2015, 15:17:16 »
TV - You have indoctrinated yourself

Way too many hours replaying Kursk -  ;D

The Soviet Army was inefficient then and it is inefficient now.  They won because of total disregard for casualties outside of the Kremlin.  And that is what makes them such obnoxious neighbours.

There are two types of Russians in the hierarchy: Bullies and Wiesels that know how to survive amongst the Bullies.

And that's the fact, Jack.  :nod:
"Wyrd bið ful aræd"

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Re: NATO response to Russian sabre rattling
« Reply #9 on: April 13, 2015, 15:20:33 »
In 1991 or so, when the USSR was collapsing, we (the West) assured they (the USSR/Russia) that we (the West) had no aims to "spread" to the East.
I've found a bit of a mixed record on that.  Some say there was a "DEAL-deal" in place to not expand NATO, while others say nothing was in writing, some Soviet officials denied such a deal, and that it was never brought up during "official" discussions

For what it's worth, here's NATO's Info-machine version of that narrative - as with all sources, caveat lector.

Also, in 1994, when Ukraine gave up its nukes, they (the Russians) assured "us" (the Ukrainians & the West) that Russia would "respect the independence and sovereignty and the existing borders of Ukraine."  So ....
They sure as hell aren't saints.  But neither are we.
.... I'd have to agree.
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Offline dapaterson

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Re: NATO response to Russian sabre rattling
« Reply #10 on: April 13, 2015, 15:42:05 »
There are two types of Russians in the hierarchy: Bullies and Wiesels that know how to survive amongst the Bullies.

Actually, Elie Wiesel is a naturalized American.

Weasels, on the other hand, are small mammals, considered vermin, resident in all continents except Australia and Antarctica.
This posting made in accordance with the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, section 2(b):
Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms: freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication
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Re: NATO response to Russian sabre rattling
« Reply #11 on: April 13, 2015, 18:29:38 »
Pedants. Pedants everywhere.  ;D

Actually - here's a Wiesel



But - as usual - you are correct and I did mean the small, furry critter....

Cheers.
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Offline Robert0288

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Re: NATO response to Russian sabre rattling
« Reply #12 on: April 13, 2015, 22:33:25 »
that's a pretty cool little armored ATV.

Offline Oldgateboatdriver

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Re: NATO response to Russian sabre rattling
« Reply #13 on: April 13, 2015, 22:51:02 »
Yes, quite. Perfect for wolf hunting in the Black forest.

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Re: NATO response to Russian sabre rattling
« Reply #14 on: April 13, 2015, 23:12:04 »
Sorry, my bad, I apologize.

I didn't realize that it was our fault that Georgia was invaded by Russia, to create puppet states called Abkhazia and Ossetia, or annexed parts of Eastern Ukraine.

And lets face it, we forcibly expanded NATO by unilaterally annexing the old Eastern European countries of the Warsaw pact or at the very least threatening them with severe economic sanctions - such as cutting their fuel - if they didn't join.

And everybody knows that every time a member of NATO opens a base somewhere for its own purpose, it becomes a NATO base, which explains why NATO has bases in the Philippines, Japan, South-Korea, and so forth.

My bad again - I apologize.

To be fair, it's not as though the west would use sanctions/economic threats to force countries to do their bidding, or invade nations for no real reason *ahem Iraq ahem*......

Offline S.M.A.

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Re: NATO response to Russian sabre rattling
« Reply #15 on: April 21, 2015, 12:04:27 »
TV - You have indoctrinated yourself

Way too many hours replaying Kursk -  ;D

Tecnoviking's longing for his previous life when he led the desperate Soviet soldiers fighting to stem the tide of Wehrmact/Waffen SS Panzers marching on Rodina.

  ;D
« Last Edit: April 21, 2015, 12:12:24 by S.M.A. »
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Re: NATO response to Russian sabre rattling
« Reply #16 on: April 22, 2015, 05:18:36 »
Tecnoviking's longing for his previous life when he led the desperate Soviet soldiers fighting to stem the tide of Wehrmact/Waffen SS Panzers marching on Rodina.

  ;D

:rofl:
So, there I was....

Offline S.M.A.

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US troops in Europe request bigger guns amid tensions with Russia
« Reply #17 on: May 01, 2015, 17:09:09 »
The 2nd ACR wants more firepower:

Military.com

Quote
US Troops in Europe Request Bigger Guns Amid Tensions With Russia

Fox News | Apr 27, 2015
One of the last American combat units stationed in Europe is asking the government for bigger guns amid rising tensions over Russia's involvement in the Ukraine conflict.

The 2nd Cavalry Regiment is requesting that 81 of its 8-wheel-drive Stryker infantry carrier vehicles be equipped with 30-mm automatic cannons -- double the caliber of the 12.7-mm guns they already carry, the military news website Breaking Defense reports.

The House Armed Services committee is already setting aside money for the upgrade, which the Army approved Wednesday, according to a memo obtained by the website.

The upgraded cannons would give the Strykers added firepower against other light-armored vehicles.

(...SNIPPED)
Our Country
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"A leader is best when people barely know he exists, when his work is done, his aim fulfilled, they will say: We did it ourselves."   - Lao Zi (老子)
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"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm."
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Offline MilEME09

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The 2nd ACR wants more firepower:

Military.com

A 30mm cannon would in theory be able to punch through a BTR-90 and a BMP-2/3 which would definitely be a game changer for any conflict.
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Offline Thucydides

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Re: NATO response to Russian sabre rattling
« Reply #19 on: May 01, 2015, 21:19:46 »
I've found a bit of a mixed record on that.  Some say there was a "DEAL-deal" in place to not expand NATO, while others say nothing was in writing, some Soviet officials denied such a deal, and that it was never brought up during "official" discussions

For what it's worth, here's NATO's Info-machine version of that narrative - as with all sources, caveat lector.

Also, in 1994, when Ukraine gave up its nukes, they (the Russians) assured "us" (the Ukrainians & the West) that Russia would "respect the independence and sovereignty and the existing borders of Ukraine."  So ........ I'd have to agree.

Sigh

Once again, I shold point out that the various nations who asked to join NATO, the EU, western trade organizations and various other Western organizations did so out of a desire to escape from the Russian orbit, regardless of what Russia saw as it's "sphere of influence".

While yes, it may have been possible to deny these nations access to the West or membership in our clubs, the net effect would probably have been to create another "zone" in Europe of former Warsaw Pact nations, probably centered on Poland, which would be suspicious and hostile to the Russians on the East, and resentful of being excluded from the wealthy and peaceful nations to the West. That does not seem to be the makings of a successful COA either....
Dagny, this is not a battle over material goods. It's a moral crisis, the greatest the world has ever faced and the last. Our age is the climax of centuries of evil. We must put an end to it, once and for all, or perish - we, the men of the mind. It was our own guilt. We produced the wealth of the world - but we let our enemies write its moral code.

Offline Technoviking

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Re: NATO response to Russian sabre rattling
« Reply #20 on: May 02, 2015, 06:25:11 »
Sigh yourself...

It's one thing to escape a Russian orbit, and another thing to enter a NATO one.

Options such as Partnership for Peace seem to work for Finland, Sweden, Austria, etc.
So, there I was....

jollyjacktar

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The 2nd ACR wants more firepower:

Military.com

And how long would this upgrade take?  Would it be completed in time for this crisis or the ready for the next one?

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And how long would this upgrade take?  Would it be completed in time for this crisis or the ready for the next one?
If their system is like ours.... :/
So, there I was....

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Re: NATO response to Russian sabre rattling
« Reply #23 on: May 02, 2015, 06:32:28 »
If their system is like ours.... :/

Ha, indeed.  Never Neverland.   :nod:

Offline S.M.A.

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NATO naval exercise Dynamic Mongoose
« Reply #24 on: May 04, 2015, 09:14:58 »
A first for Sweden's navy in this exercise:

Reuters

Quote
NATO starts anti submarine exercise in North Sea as tension with Russia rise

By Balazs Koranyi

ABOARD THE USS VICKSBURG, North Sea (Reuters) - NATO launched one of its biggest-ever anti-submarine exercises in the North Sea on Monday, inviting non-member Sweden for the first time, amid increasing tensions between Russia and its northern neighbors.

More than a dozen vessels from 11 countries are participating in the "Dynamic Mongoose" exercise. NATO will simulate detecting and attacking submarines in one of the most hostile seas, with rugged but shallow underwater canyons, rapid currents and unusually high sound pollution from freshwater pouring in from Norway's fjords.

(...SNIPPED)

« Last Edit: May 04, 2015, 09:17:49 by S.M.A. »
Our Country
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"A leader is best when people barely know he exists, when his work is done, his aim fulfilled, they will say: We did it ourselves."   - Lao Zi (老子)
-------------------------------------------
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm."
- Winston Churchill