Author Topic: The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)  (Read 752314 times)

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Offline YZT580

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Re: The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)
« Reply #2225 on: June 21, 2018, 21:33:19 »
And all totally avoidable.  Tariffs were due to our serving as a conduit for cheap chinese steel into the U.S. via Canadian ports to avoid U.S. tariffs on it. Trudeau's refused to stop the procedure for fear of causing anxiety to the Chinese.

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Re: The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)
« Reply #2226 on: June 22, 2018, 01:48:39 »
And all totally avoidable.  Tariffs were due to our serving as a conduit for cheap chinese steel into the U.S. via Canadian ports to avoid U.S. tariffs on it. Trudeau's refused to stop the procedure for fear of causing anxiety to the Chinese.

You just exploded a bunch of heads here. Trump is evil and Trudeau is a saint, or so some would have you believe.
Corruption in politics doesn't scare me.
What scares me is how comfortable people are doing nothing about it.

Offline Good2Golf

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Re: The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)
« Reply #2227 on: June 22, 2018, 07:44:19 »
And all totally avoidable.  Tariffs were due to our serving as a conduit for cheap chinese steel into the U.S. via Canadian ports to avoid U.S. tariffs on it. Trudeau's refused to stop the procedure for fear of causing anxiety to the Chinese.

So if you say it, it must be true?

Canada targets dumped steel from countries like China

What? March 2018? Before Trump’s pre-G7 launch of the steel tariffs? Craziness!

Only head’s exploding are people making up their own convenient alternate facts or those supporting them, and getting caught in their bombast.

:yawn:

G2G

Offline QV

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Re: The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)
« Reply #2228 on: June 22, 2018, 08:18:10 »
.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2018, 08:22:26 by QV »

Offline YZT580

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Re: The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)
« Reply #2229 on: June 22, 2018, 08:22:09 »
Check the date.  Our taking the dumping seriously only took place a few days before Trump imposed the tariffs.  The Americans got tired of waiting for some form of action since this has been going on for a long period of time.  Ironic that we have allowed cheap Chinese steel to weaken our own industry to the extent that most of the major mills in Hamilton are either closed, closing, or have reduced staff by the thousands but our action leader only took action when forced to make a showing by Trump. 

Offline Good2Golf

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Re: The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)
« Reply #2230 on: June 22, 2018, 09:04:48 »
Changing your story from “taking no action” to “not taking action fast enough.”

Got it.

Offline Colin P

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Re: The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)
« Reply #2231 on: June 22, 2018, 10:32:20 »
Basically the Liberals took no real action until the Tariff threat forced them to. They tried to play both sides of the coin and were called on it.

https://www.pressreader.com/canada/montreal-gazette/20180327/282097752254033

Offline Good2Golf

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Re: The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)
« Reply #2232 on: June 22, 2018, 11:04:46 »
So now it’s “took no real action”...somewhere between “took no action” and “didn’t take action fast enough.”

Got it.

Offline Colin P

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Re: The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)
« Reply #2233 on: June 22, 2018, 13:27:42 »
As you know, governments love to be seen doing "something" even if it's really nothing of substance. The Liberals are masters of this, being far better lairs than the PC/CPC ever were. JT and company thought they could squeak through pleasing Xi and not getting strafed by DT. Their weak dodge did not work.


Offline Good2Golf

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Re: The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)
« Reply #2234 on: June 22, 2018, 13:38:16 »
As you know, governments love to be seen doing "something" even if it's really nothing of substance. The Liberals are masters of this, being far better lairs than the PC/CPC ever were. JT and company thought they could squeak through pleasing Xi and not getting strafed by DT. Their weak dodge did not work.

RE; seen to be doing something...absolutely! :nod:

That said, Cons have had their moment, and tying back to the thread a wee bit, Harper still deserves a smack for letting his mis-assessed belief that he actually had a chance in 2015 get in the way of signing off the JSF acquisition.  :2c:

Regards
G2G

Offline MarkOttawa

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Re: The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)
« Reply #2235 on: June 22, 2018, 20:08:18 »
More from a US site, lots of further links:

Quote
Canada May Make It Much Harder For U.S. To Win Its Hornet Replacement Fighter Contract
With a chill spreading over historically toasty U.S.-Canada relations, Ottawa may penalize the U.S. by making its fighters less competitive.
http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/21690/canada-might-make-it-much-harder-for-u-s-to-win-its-hornet-replacement-fighter-contract

Mark
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Offline Rifleman62

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Re: The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)
« Reply #2236 on: June 23, 2018, 07:45:26 »
There may be a chill now between the current US/Cdn gov't, but by the time were actually ready to get a replacement, who knows who the gov'ts will be in twenty years. :nod:
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Offline thunderchild

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Re: The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)
« Reply #2237 on: June 23, 2018, 22:00:22 »
Buy a mixed fleet of European nato qualified fighters, EF-2000 tranch 3 and Gripen E/F.   The majority of our deployments are in the Middle East or Europe proper let’s shorten our supply lines.

Offline MarkOttawa

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Re: The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)
« Reply #2238 on: June 24, 2018, 14:45:41 »
More on this consulting contract--might there be a BAE Systems angle
 in background (Eurofighter, Type 26 for RCN)?

Quote
U.K. firm's Ottawa offices to help feds find new fighter jets

Commerce Decisions, a U.K.-based company with offices in Ottawa, has secured a contract with the federal government to support the procurement process for 88 advanced fighter jets, replacing Canada’s current fleet.

The contract, worth up to $2 million, is under the Future Fighter Capability Project (FFCP), which is run by DND, Public Services and Procurement Canada (PSPC), and Innovation, Science and Economic Development (ISED). The acquisition of the actual planes is worth up to $19 billion and will include associated equipment, weapons, and other services, according to a press release.

Commerce Decisions will draw on team members from across its operations to create an assessment plan for the fighter jet procurement program.This includes supporting the development of an evaluation plan for the competitive procurement process in preparing an evaluation strategy, methodology and criteria. According to the press release, the procurement of modern fighter jets is “essential” for Canada’s contribution to its NORAD and NATO commitments, as well as for the defence of Canada and its sovereignty globally.

According to DND, the development of evaluation criteria is key to ensuring the procurement of the right equipment at the right price. The contract with Commerce Decisions is independent from the identification of suppliers for the fighter aircraft fleet...

Commerce Decisions works with clients to build assessment schemes, including in the defence sector where it has worked extensively on U.K. MOD acquisitions as well as internationally, according to the press release.

This isn’t the first time Commerce Decisions has been tasked with a large defence contract by the Canadian government. In 2015, the company was awarded a contract to facilitate the delivery of assessment criteria for warship designers and combat systems integrators for the Canadian Surface Combatant (CSC) project [emphasis added]...
http://www.obj.ca/article/uk-firms-ottawa-offices-help-feds-find-new-fighter-jets

Commerce Decisions news release:
https://cd.qinetiq.com/news/commerce-decisions-awarded-contract-to-support-dnd%E2%80%99s-future-fighter-capability-project/

Mark
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Offline Chris Pook

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Re: The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)
« Reply #2239 on: June 24, 2018, 16:07:50 »
Qinetic (parent of Commerce Decisions):

Quote
We have been supporting the procurement and operation of the UK’s fleet of Typhoon fighter jets for over 25 years and the high-tech F-35 stealth, multi-role jets for over 10 years. We manage this through the supply of advice, tools and training.

https://www.qinetiq.com/What-we-do/Air/Aircraft-Mission-Systems
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Offline Colin P

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Re: The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)
« Reply #2240 on: June 25, 2018, 10:38:13 »
RE; seen to be doing something...absolutely! :nod:

That said, Cons have had their moment, and tying back to the thread a wee bit, Harper still deserves a smack for letting his mis-assessed belief that he actually had a chance in 2015 get in the way of signing off the JSF acquisition.  :2c:

Regards
G2G

He had a good chance if he ran a short and focused election campaign (and actually relaxed the message control crap) in which case we would have had 2 Mistrals along with the Astreix and possibly her sister ship under conversion. As for the F35, I suspect it would still be in discussion phase, I think that Trump would not have the same issues with Harper as he does with JT, in fact I would expect Harper to string along the F-35 purchase as part of NAFTA talks. So I would have expected a announcement on F-35s after a NAFTA deal was done.

Offline MarkOttawa

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Re: The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)
« Reply #2241 on: July 07, 2018, 14:04:26 »
Swiss re-do fighter competition--note schedule compared to that for RCAF:

Quote
Switzerland kicks off fighter jet competition

Switzerland on Friday kicked off a multibillion-franc competition to replace its ageing fleet of F-5 fighter jets, and older model F/A-18 fighters, inviting five European and U.S. weapons makers to submit bids by January.

The Swiss defence ministry asked for bids from European aerospace group Airbus, France’s Dassault and Sweden’s Saab, as well as Boeing and Lockheed Martin from the United States.

Under its Air2030 programme, Switzerland is seeking to procure new combat aircraft and ground-based air defenses in a programme valued at up to 8 billion Swiss francs ($8.08 billion)...

In November, it said it wants the new planes to be delivered by 2025...

For Switzerland, the Eurofighter will square off against Dassault’s Rafale, Saab’s Gripen, Boeing’s F/A-18E/F Super Hornet and Lockheed’s F-35, the only contender that offers radar-evading stealth capabilities.

Switzerland had initially chosen the Saab Gripen E fighter but had to cancel that order after a 2014 referendum rejected the choice.

The Swiss procurement agency said it was asking the firms to submit pricing for 30 or 40 planes, including logistics and guided missiles, as well as an assessment of the number of aircraft necessary to fulfil the Swiss Air Force’s needs.

The manufacturers have until January 2019 to submit an offer, after which the planes will undergo tests and a second tender round will be opened, with an eye to finishing its assessment by the end of 2020. ($1 = 0.9895 Swiss francs)...
https://www.reuters.com/article/swiss-airforce/switzerland-kicks-off-fighter-jet-competition-idUSL8N1U242W

For RCAF:

Quote
...
Project Approval (Implementation)    2021-22
Contract Award    2021-22
Delivery First Aircraft    Mid 2020s
Initial Operational Capability    Mid 2020s
Delivery Final Aircraft    Mid 2020s
Full Operational Capability    Early 2030s
...
http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/about-reports-pubs-report-plan-priorities/2018-status-report-transformational-crown-projects.page#futurefightercapability

Mark
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Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)
« Reply #2242 on: July 08, 2018, 08:06:26 »
Buy a mixed fleet of European nato qualified fighters, EF-2000 tranch 3 and Gripen E/F.   The majority of our deployments are in the Middle East or Europe proper let’s shorten our supply lines.

NORAD mission?
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Re: The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)
« Reply #2243 on: July 08, 2018, 10:22:19 »
NORAD mission?

Pffft.  Everyone knows that the media doesn't care about "normal" missions, or "normies"...

 ;)
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Offline MarkOttawa

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Re: The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)
« Reply #2244 on: July 15, 2018, 15:26:33 »
No mention of RCAF:

Quote
Royal Air Force Receives Most Capable Typhoons Yet

As Britain’s Royal Air Force (RAF) begins receiving the most capable Eurofighter Typhoons yet, the four-nation program is gearing up for a wave of potential new sales.

So far, the RAF has received 26 Eurofighter Typhoons kitted out with the initial elements of the Project Centurion upgrade package, enabling the Typhoon to take on the vast majority of the missions performed by the Panavia Tornado GR4 which is being phased out of service at the end of March next year.

The first elements of Centurion were actually quietly introduced onto the RAF Typhoons in January 2017, explained Air Commodore Linc Taylor, the RAF’s senior responsible officer for delivering UK air combat capability, speaking at the Royal International Air Tattoo on July 13. These initial upgrades were a “wrap up” of some systems on the aircraft that had not been updated for several years. This was subsequently followed by the integration of the Phase 2 Enhancements (P2E) package which enables the use of the MBDA Meteor beyond visual range air-to-air missile and an initial Storm Shadow air-launched cruise missile capability.

“This is the greatest changes in the software of the aircraft,” said Taylor, “It significantly enhances the bread and butter of the aircraft, and the way pilot interacts with the human-machine interface.”

Then, BAE is planning to install the P3E package, which will enable the use of the Brimstone air-to-ground missile by the end of the year.

“The Typhoon is going to be the backbone of the RAF’s combat mass for at least another 20 years…my intent is to accelerate on Typhoon, now that the aircraft is relatively mature, we should be able to do things faster.”

In the future, Britain is planning to integrate the Spear 3 network-enabled lightweight missile, which will also equip the F-35 as well as the Leonardo Britecloud active decoy recently declared operational on the Tornado. Britain is also funding the development of a more advanced version of the Euroradar Captor E active-electronically-scanned array, or so-called e-scan radar. While Kuwait will be the first customer of the Captor-E in the European Common Radar System Mk.1 configuration, Britain wants the Mk.2 or Radar 2 configuration which is expected to add an electronic attack capability.

The Eurofighter consortium sees a potential for another 300 Typhoon orders [emphasis added] in the coming years. In March, the Saudi government signed a letter of intent with the UK to purchase as many as 48 Typhoons to supplement the 72 aircraft the Kingdom had already taken delivery. The UK is also leading campaigns to sell the Typhoon into Belgium and Finland. Belgium is expected to make a selection decision in the coming weeks. Perhaps the largest opportunity lies in Germany where the aircraft is being proposed as a replacement for the Panavia Tornado and will have to take up many of the German air force Tornado missions including the suppression and destruction of enemy air defenses and the nuclear strike role with the B61 weapon, which Berlin has access to under a dual-key arrangement with the U.S [emphasis added].

Airbus is also proposing upgrades for the Eurofighter’s Eurojet EJ200 engine and using its growth potential to boost thrust by up to 15% in some flight profiles, as well as make improvements to fuel consumption.

We are going to have this jet around until 2040 [emphasis added] … it is going to evolve and develop, and these will be technologies that enable us to move into the future fighter domain,” said Dave Armstrong, director of European and International business for BAE's Air division.

The RAF had planned on retiring its Tranche 1 Typhoons in favor of holding onto Tranche 2 and 3 jets, however the Strategic Defense and Security Review of 2015, called for the expansion of the UK’s combat aircraft fleets, and the creation of up to three new Typhoon squadrons and retaining the Tranche 1 jets until 2030 [emphasis added]. The UK declared that it would reform 12 Sqdn, until recently a Tornado unit, as the fifth Typhoon front-line squadron. The unit would also have a role in training Qatar Emiri Air Force pilots as that air arm gears up to operate 24 Typhoons from 2022. Then, in the run-up to the Farnborough Airshow, the Royal Air Force Chief of Air Staff, Air Chief Marshal Sir Stephen Hillier announced that the RAF’s seventh Typhoon unit would be 9 Sqdn, reforming at RAF Lossiemouth in Scotland.
http://aviationweek.com/farnborough-airshow-2018/royal-air-force-receives-most-capable-typhoons-yet-0

Mark
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Offline PuckChaser

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Re: The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)
« Reply #2245 on: July 15, 2018, 15:45:52 »
No mention of RCAF:

Because we have no idea what we're doing yet.

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)
« Reply #2246 on: July 15, 2018, 19:58:23 »
Because we have no idea what we're doing yet.

Wasn't that the plan, to 'not know' so we don't actually do anything?

Or...wait...something something...operational capability gap that must be addressed...
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Offline Chris Pook

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Re: The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)
« Reply #2247 on: July 19, 2018, 11:26:46 »
Of Hurricanes, Typhoons and Tempests.....

Quote
UK unveils new Tempest fighter jet model
16 July 2018





A model of the UK's planned new fighter jet, the Tempest, has been unveiled at the Farnborough Air Show.

The UK's Defence Secretary, Gavin Williamson, said the jet could be used with either pilots or as a drone.

The craft will eventually replace the existing Typhoon fighter jet. It will be developed and built by BAE Systems, engine maker Rolls-Royce, Italy's Leonardo and missiles expert MBDA.

Mr Williamson said the UK would be investing £2bn in the new project.

The hope is to see it flying by 2035.

Mr Williamson said the programme was aimed at ensuring the UK's continued leadership in fighter technology and control of air space in future combat: "We have been a world leader in the combat air sector for a century, with an enviable array of skills and technology, and this strategy makes clear that we are determined to make sure it stays that way."

He added that the UK, currently excluded from the latest fighter programme underway between France and Germany, was not against forming a partnership with other nations: "It shows our allies that we are open to working together to protect the skies in an increasingly threatening future - and this concept model is just a glimpse into what the future could look like."

'Direction of travel'

According to BBC defence correspondent Jonathan Beale, the Tempest looks remarkably similar to the current generation of stealth jets, including the US developed-F 35.

Its sleek lines are designed to be hard to detect by radar, but unlike the current generation of jets it could also operate as a drone without a pilot.

It would also be the first British-designed jet to carry laser directed energy weapons capable of shooting down aircraft and missiles.

Aeropace giant Airbus welcomed the new jet programme: "Airbus welcomes the UK's commitment of funding for the future fighter project. We look forward to continuing collaborative discussions with all relevant European players."

Earlier, the chief executive of BAE Systems, Charles Woodburn, told the BBC's Today programme that the new jet would be some time in coming.

"We already have the Typhoon platform which forms the absolute bedrock of European air defence and that'll be in service for decades to come," he said.

He added that the inner workings of the new craft would start life within the Typhoon.

"The important thing about the new concept is that it will illustrate a direction of travel and many of those technologies that will be embodied in that will first see their service through the Typhoon.

"For example, upgrades on the avionics, upgrades in the weapons systems, upgrades in the radar will be deployed through the Typhoon and will be deployed there and then."

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-44848294

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Offline MarkOttawa

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Re: The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)
« Reply #2248 on: July 25, 2018, 15:54:38 »
If USAF goes ahead with new-build F-15Xs as replacement for C/Ds, worth considering for RCAF esp. with NORAD mission in mind? Note cost (extracts from longish piece):

Quote
Exclusive: Unmasking The F-15X, Boeing's F-15C/D Eagle Replacement Fighter
Boeing and the USAF have been in talks for a year and a half about replacing the aging F-15C/D with a brand new advanced Eagle derivative, the F-15X.

Last week, the aerospace-defense community was overwhelmingly intrigued by a report from Defenseone.com that said Boeing was pitching a new variant of its 45-year-old F-15 Eagle line of fighters to the United States Air Force. Still, next to nothing is known about this initiative, including where it came from and what it entails exactly. Although it has been framed as a Boeing solicitation to the USAF, the opposite is actually true—the USAF began the discussion over a year and a half ago. Since then, ongoing talks have been kept incredibly hush-hush, along with the details of the aircraft involved—until now.

According to sources familiar with the discussions, The War Zone has learned about the F-15X's origins, its intended capabilities and features, and where it would fit inside the USAF's tactical airpower ecosystem.

The F-15X came out of a quiet USAF inquiry to Boeing and Lockheed Martin about fielding an aircraft that could seamlessly plug into their existing air combat infrastructure as part of better-defined high-low capability mix strategy—one intended to specifically help counter the service's shrinking force structure.

The airframe would have to be cost-effective both in terms of operation and acquisition, very low-risk, and most of all, it would need to be non-disruptive to the larger F-35 procurement initiative. If anything else, it had to be seen as complementary to the F-35, not as an alternative to it...

As time moved on, it became clear that the F-35 might not be the USAF's one-size-fits-all solution some thought it would be. This is not a mark against the F-35, but just the reality that the USAF has tactical air power needs that don't necessitate or even benefit from the F-35's unique and costly capabilities.

...Our sources describe the aircraft as a single seat variant of the latest F-15 advanced Strike Eagle derivative—the F-15QA destined for Qatar—but it will also integrate many of the features and upgrades that the USAF intends (or intended as it may be) to include on its nearly four-decade-old F-15C/D fleet. And no, the aircraft is not a repackaging of the semi-stealthy F-15 Silent Eagle concept that Boeing floated nearly a decade ago. The F-15X features no low-observable enhancements of any kind.

The F-15X configuration is impressive as it includes a flat-panel glass cockpit, JHMCS II helmet mounted display (HMD), revised internal wing structure, fly-by-wire controls, APG-82 AESA radar, activation of outer wing stations one and nine, advanced mission computer, low-profile heads-up display, updated radio and satellite communications, the highly advanced Eagle Passive Active Warning Survivability System (EPAWSS) electronic warfare and electronic surveillance suite, Legion Pod-mounted infrared search and track system (IRST) and the list goes on.

With the help of the company's new AMBER missile carrying racks, the F-15X will be able to carry a whopping 22 air-to-air missiles during a single sortie [emphasis added--NORAD?]. Alternatively, it could fly with eight air-to-air missiles and 28 Small Diameter Bombs (SDBs), or up to seven 2,000lb bombs and eight air-to-air missiles...

What the F-15X doesn't include is a high price. The War Zone has learned that Boeing intends to deliver the F-15X at a flyaway cost well below that of an F-35A—which runs about $95M per copy [emphasis added]. And this is not just some attempt to grab business and then deliver an aircraft that costs way more than promised. Our sources tell us that Boeing is willing to put their money where their mouth is via offering the F-15X under a fixed priced contract.

...the jet is intended t directly replace the USAF's entire F-15C/D fleet. It would have no impact on the existing F-15E Strike Eagle fleet or its planned upgrade pathway that is underway now.

Currently, the F-15C/D force is largely arrayed along America's maritime borders, with five Air National Guard units flying the type. A squadron at RAF Lakenheath in England and two squadrons at Kadena Air Base in Japan round out the full front-line force...
http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/22372/exclusive-unmasking-the-f-15x-boeings-f-15c-d-eagle-replacement-fighter

Mark
Ottawa
 

 

Ça explique, mais ça n'excuse pas.

Offline PuckChaser

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Re: The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)
« Reply #2249 on: July 25, 2018, 16:12:55 »
F-15X could be the flying bomb truck the F-35 is meant to lead into battle. The article is also incorrect, the next batch of F-35As in 2019 are approx $85M USD flyaway, and dropping.