Author Topic: 8 Jan 2020: UKR Airliner shot down in Tehran  (Read 16849 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline milnews.ca

  • Info Curator, Baker & Food Slut
  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Relic
  • *
  • 454,015
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 22,909
    • MILNEWS.ca-Military News for Canadians
Re: 8 Jan 2020: UKR Airliner shot down in Tehran
« Reply #125 on: January 12, 2020, 16:54:21 »
... Iran is going to pay 8K to each victim of the shoot down ...
I've seen UKR media saying the Ukrainian gov't will pay ~$8K per victim, and will continue to chase/work with Iran in getting Iran to pay over & above that as well.  Have you seen anything on IRN confirming payment (as opposed to broad commitments to talk about compensation)?  Thx!
“The risk of insult is the price of clarity.” -- Roy H. Williams

The words I share here are my own, not those of anyone else or anybody I may be affiliated with.

Tony Prudori
MILNEWS.ca - Twitter

Offline Retired AF Guy

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 66,165
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 1,885
Re: 8 Jan 2020: UKR Airliner shot down in Tehran
« Reply #126 on: January 12, 2020, 19:13:48 »
That didn't take long. Thousands of Iranians take to the street to protest the destruction of the Ukrainian airliner.

Quote
Thousands of Iranians Have Bravely Protested the Government’s Role in Ukrainian Plane Crash

The regime admitted late Friday its armed forces were responsible for the downed the airliner and the deaths of all 176 people on board.

Samantha Michaels

Thousands of people took to the streets across Iran this weekend to condemn their government for shooting down a Ukrainian passenger plane—killing all 176 people on board—and then lying for days to hide its role in what happened.

In Tehran, people flooded main squares on Saturday afternoon demanding repercussions for Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, and that officials responsible for the plane crash be punished. Protests also rocked other cities, including Shiraz, Esfahan, Hamedan, and Orumiyeh. In videos posted on social media, the New York Times reports, protesters yelled, “Death to liars!” and “Death to the dictator!” In Tehran, anti-riot police unleashed tear gas and fired water cannons at demonstrators.

The bluntness of these protesters, captured in videos below, is particularly striking following a brutal crackdown by the regime late last year on demonstrations that were initially sparked by an increase in gas prices. According to CNN, the UN Human Rights Office had information to show that some 200 people were killed and thousands were arrested during the crackdown.

    #IranProtests
    The public's anger has a clear target: Khamenei.
    Crowds chant "Khaemnei is a murderer, his regime is obsolete."#IranPlaneCrash pic.twitter.com/WQpXeM65Zj

    — Farnaz Fassihi (@farnazfassihi) January 11, 2020

The Ukrainian plane was struck by surface-to-air missiles minutes after taking off from an airport near Tehran on Wednesday. It carried passengers from Iran, Canada, Ukraine, Sweden, Afghanistan, Germany, and United Kingdom, and was en route to Ukraine. Hours earlier Iran had launched an attack on US targets in Iraq, in response to the US killing of Iranian Maj. Gen. Qasem Soleimani earlier this month, and Iranian officials said they had been on alert for a potential counterattack.

Iranian officials admitted their role in the crash late Friday, after days of denials. Iranian President Hassan Rouhani described the incident as a “disastrous mistake,” and Khamenei called for an investigation. On Twitter, Iranian Foreign Minister Mohammad Javad Zarif offered his “profound regrets, apologies and condolences,” but also criticized the United States for ratcheting up tensions by killing Soleimani. “Human error at time of crisis caused by US adventurism led to disaster,” he wrote.

On Saturday, some of the Iranian demonstrators ripped up photos of Suleimani, according to reports from Iran’s semi-official Fars news agency. In a commentary, the news agency condemned Iran’s leaders for trying to cover up their role in the downing of the plane. “It is pivotal that those who were hiding the truth from the public for the past 72 hours be held accountable, we cannot let this go,” it read, according to the Times.

Link
"Leave one wolf alive, and the sheep are never safe."

Arya Stark

Offline CloudCover

  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *
  • 55,160
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 4,574
Re: 8 Jan 2020: UKR Airliner shot down in Tehran
« Reply #127 on: January 13, 2020, 00:49:38 »
Thought this was quite series of tweets and a good article. Summed nicely with "We are mourning and I am livid" ...
 
"https://www.ctvnews.ca/business/maple-leaf-foods-ceo-takes-aim-at-u-s-government-over-plane-crash-in-iran-1.4764217
... Move!! ...

Offline Dolphin_Hunter

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 19,180
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 1,407
Re: 8 Jan 2020: UKR Airliner shot down in Tehran
« Reply #128 on: January 13, 2020, 05:48:46 »
Thought this was quite series of tweets and a good article. Summed nicely with "We are mourning and I am livid" ...
 
"https://www.ctvnews.ca/business/maple-leaf-foods-ceo-takes-aim-at-u-s-government-over-plane-crash-in-iran-1.4764217

Trump didn’t shoot down that plane.



Offline Hamish Seggie

  • Army.ca Legend
  • *****
  • 244,047
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 10,858
  • This is my son Michael, KIA Afghanistan 3 Sep 08
Re: 8 Jan 2020: UKR Airliner shot down in Tehran
« Reply #129 on: January 13, 2020, 06:59:40 »
Trump didn’t shoot down that plane.

Too many “experts “ can now spread their ridiculous assertions thanks to social media. I’m not saying Trump is a saint but the CEO of that company can pound sand. STFU and that includes all those Hollywood limousine liberals.

Rant ends. Cheers 🍻
Freedom Isn't Free   "Never Shall I Fail My Brothers"

“Do everything that is necessary and nothing that is not".

Offline Jarnhamar

  • Army.ca Legend
  • *****
  • 350,526
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 12,158
Re: 8 Jan 2020: UKR Airliner shot down in Tehran
« Reply #130 on: January 13, 2020, 07:09:59 »
Edit
« Last Edit: January 13, 2020, 07:40:07 by Jarnhamar »
There are no wolves on Fenris

Offline Journeyman

  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Army.ca Legend
  • *
  • 583,985
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 13,469
Re: 8 Jan 2020: UKR Airliner shot down in Tehran
« Reply #131 on: January 13, 2020, 08:40:52 »
Trump didn’t shoot down that plane.
Obviously not. 

From Twitter (so it's even more authentic than the CBC comment section):
Quote
Was going to go to sleep but now reading conspiracy theories by MAGA accounts that the plane was shot down by the Canadian deep state because it had six nuclear scientists on board. Peak internet.
       :Tin-Foil-Hat:    :pop:    #TweetsFromTwits

Offline milnews.ca

  • Info Curator, Baker & Food Slut
  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Relic
  • *
  • 454,015
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 22,909
    • MILNEWS.ca-Military News for Canadians
Re: 8 Jan 2020: UKR Airliner shot down in Tehran
« Reply #132 on: January 13, 2020, 09:56:23 »
I've seen UKR media saying the Ukrainian gov't will pay ~$8K per victim, and will continue to chase/work with Iran in getting Iran to pay over & above that as well.  Have you seen anything on IRN confirming payment (as opposed to broad commitments to talk about compensation)?  Thx!
Update:  based on current currency rates, UKR will pay 200,000 UKR hrvynia (CAN $10,890) "of assistance to the families of those who were killed in the plane crash in Iran and will monitor the proper payoff of insurance payments in accordance with the Montreal Convention."
“The risk of insult is the price of clarity.” -- Roy H. Williams

The words I share here are my own, not those of anyone else or anybody I may be affiliated with.

Tony Prudori
MILNEWS.ca - Twitter

Offline milnews.ca

  • Info Curator, Baker & Food Slut
  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Relic
  • *
  • 454,015
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 22,909
    • MILNEWS.ca-Military News for Canadians
Re: 8 Jan 2020: UKR Airliner shot down in Tehran
« Reply #133 on: January 13, 2020, 19:46:19 »
Let the doubts creep in ...
Quote
... Radio communication can be unreliable. The people at the other side of the operators call may have been talking to someone else or could  not react immediately. Air defense personal is trained to always presume electronic interference by enemy forces. The U.S. has publicly bragged about its cyber-attacks on IRGC systems. U.S. air attacks typically come behind a wave of electronic countermeasures.

Under these circumstances - highest possible alarm level, current warnings of hostile cruise missiles, unknown target flying towards a presumably military objective, lack of communication, little decision time - the operator of the Tor system did what he was trained to do ...
#AlternativeNarratives
“The risk of insult is the price of clarity.” -- Roy H. Williams

The words I share here are my own, not those of anyone else or anybody I may be affiliated with.

Tony Prudori
MILNEWS.ca - Twitter

Offline Brad Sallows

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 91,610
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 4,364
Re: 8 Jan 2020: UKR Airliner shot down in Tehran
« Reply #134 on: January 14, 2020, 00:05:44 »
>unknown target flying towards a presumably military objective

How do civilian aircraft flying regular routes and schedules become "unknown"?  Air defence specialists are not expected to know this information?  There is no way to "interrogate" civilian aircraft?
That which does not kill me has made a grave tactical error.

"It is a damned heavy blow; but whining don't help."

Despair is a sin.

Offline milnews.ca

  • Info Curator, Baker & Food Slut
  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Relic
  • *
  • 454,015
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 22,909
    • MILNEWS.ca-Military News for Canadians
Re: 8 Jan 2020: UKR Airliner shot down in Tehran
« Reply #135 on: January 14, 2020, 06:59:45 »
This, from IRN media ...
Quote
Official: Canada, US, France Refuse to Help Decoding Black Box

Canada, France and the US have declined Iran's request to help extracting data from the black box of the Ukrainian plane which suffered an unfortunate accident on Wednesday, Head of the Accident Investigation Board of the Civil Aviation Organization Hassan Rezayeefar announced on Monday.

Rezayeefar said Iran has asked Canada, France and the US to bring their software and hardware equipment to Tehran to extract data of the black box of the Ukrainian plane that was downed in an air defense incident on the Southwestern outskirt of Tehran on Wednesday, but they have denied Iran's request.

Then, Iran offered Ukraine, Sweden, Britain, Canada, and the US to send the black box to an impartial laboratory and France was the country all five countries agreed on, the official added.

Black box recordings of the Ukrainian airliner will be downloaded in France, head of the accident investigation board of Civil Aviation Organization of Iran announced on Saturday ...
More in full story attached.
“The risk of insult is the price of clarity.” -- Roy H. Williams

The words I share here are my own, not those of anyone else or anybody I may be affiliated with.

Tony Prudori
MILNEWS.ca - Twitter

Offline SeaKingTacco

  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *****
  • 168,875
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 5,869
  • Door Gunnery- The Sport of Kings!
Re: 8 Jan 2020: UKR Airliner shot down in Tehran
« Reply #136 on: January 14, 2020, 09:25:44 »
>unknown target flying towards a presumably military objective

How do civilian aircraft flying regular routes and schedules become "unknown"?  Air defence specialists are not expected to know this information?  There is no way to "interrogate" civilian aircraft?

The evidence seems to indicate that the Iranian Air Defence is not well integrated into the overall airspace control structure, meaning they do not have access (or easy access) to the civil air picture, which is imperative to properly make a shoot/no shoot decisions.

I doubt Russian weapons engineers give much thought to including the ability to interogate civil air transponders in their AD systems, but I could be proven wrong on that point.

As an aside, there was a thread around here awhile ago suggesting that the "easy" solution to the Cdn Army's current lack of an AD capability was to just give AD weapons systems to infantry units. This incident illustrates why that is not a good idea. The easy part is part is firing the missile. The hard part is understanding the overal airspace control structure and situation. It takes years of expertise to effectively command and control an air defence unit.

Offline Hamish Seggie

  • Army.ca Legend
  • *****
  • 244,047
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 10,858
  • This is my son Michael, KIA Afghanistan 3 Sep 08
Re: 8 Jan 2020: UKR Airliner shot down in Tehran
« Reply #137 on: January 14, 2020, 09:30:30 »
I'd like to add that the leadership of Iran may not be all that well versed in technology and all the small details. Allah will provide and guide, right?
Freedom Isn't Free   "Never Shall I Fail My Brothers"

“Do everything that is necessary and nothing that is not".

Offline Good2Golf

  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Legend
  • *
  • 254,735
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 12,007
  • Dammit! I lost my sand-wedge on that last jump!
Re: 8 Jan 2020: UKR Airliner shot down in Tehran
« Reply #138 on: January 14, 2020, 09:54:41 »
I'd like to add that the leadership of Iran may not be all that well versed in technology and all the small details. Allah will provide and guide, right?

...well they’ve managed to keep flying F-14 Tomcats, and they’re pretty cyber-savvy.

Offline dapaterson

    Halfway to being an idiot-savant.

  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Army.ca Myth
  • *
  • 524,690
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 18,106
Re: 8 Jan 2020: UKR Airliner shot down in Tehran
« Reply #139 on: January 14, 2020, 10:15:02 »
...well they’ve managed to keep flying F-14 Tomcats...

So you're saying the RCAF should try recruiting their technicians?
This posting made in accordance with the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, section 2(b):
Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms: freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication
http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/charter/1.html

Offline Hamish Seggie

  • Army.ca Legend
  • *****
  • 244,047
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 10,858
  • This is my son Michael, KIA Afghanistan 3 Sep 08
Re: 8 Jan 2020: UKR Airliner shot down in Tehran
« Reply #140 on: January 14, 2020, 10:17:59 »
So you're saying the RCAF should try recruiting their technicians?

SHHHHH don't give them any ideas.....
Freedom Isn't Free   "Never Shall I Fail My Brothers"

“Do everything that is necessary and nothing that is not".

Offline milnews.ca

  • Info Curator, Baker & Food Slut
  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Relic
  • *
  • 454,015
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 22,909
    • MILNEWS.ca-Military News for Canadians
“The risk of insult is the price of clarity.” -- Roy H. Williams

The words I share here are my own, not those of anyone else or anybody I may be affiliated with.

Tony Prudori
MILNEWS.ca - Twitter

Offline garb811

  • MP/MPO Question Answerer
  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *
  • 114,105
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 1,920
Re: 8 Jan 2020: UKR Airliner shot down in Tehran
« Reply #142 on: January 14, 2020, 17:04:36 »
Split the ADA tangent off into the All Things Air Defence/AA (merged) thread.

Milnet.ca Staff
He's old enough to know what's right
And young enough not to choose it

Offline milnews.ca

  • Info Curator, Baker & Food Slut
  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Relic
  • *
  • 454,015
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 22,909
    • MILNEWS.ca-Military News for Canadians
“The risk of insult is the price of clarity.” -- Roy H. Williams

The words I share here are my own, not those of anyone else or anybody I may be affiliated with.

Tony Prudori
MILNEWS.ca - Twitter

Offline Jarnhamar

  • Army.ca Legend
  • *****
  • 350,526
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 12,158
Re: 8 Jan 2020: UKR Airliner shot down in Tehran
« Reply #144 on: January 18, 2020, 08:08:20 »
I keep reading about compensation and money. Ukraine is giving people $8000 (or whatever) Canada is giving vicitims $25'000, Iran better compensate too!

Seems like the spotlight shifted to money pretty quick.

I read somewhere families might get compensated up to $2million from Canada. Will this be a standard when a Canadian is accidentally killed or murdered abroad? At home?
There are no wolves on Fenris

Offline milnews.ca

  • Info Curator, Baker & Food Slut
  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Relic
  • *
  • 454,015
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 22,909
    • MILNEWS.ca-Military News for Canadians
Re: 8 Jan 2020: UKR Airliner shot down in Tehran
« Reply #145 on: January 18, 2020, 16:17:44 »
I keep reading about compensation and money. Ukraine is giving people $8000 (or whatever) Canada is giving vicitims $25'000, Iran better compensate too!

Seems like the spotlight shifted to money pretty quick.
In some cases, it may not be cheap/easy to bring a dead loved one back from a country we don't have diplomatic relations with.  And so far, Canada and others have been clear that they expect IRN to cough up, too.  How long that'll take?  I'm not optimistic.

I read somewhere families might get compensated up to $2million from Canada. Will this be a standard when a Canadian is accidentally killed or murdered abroad? At home?
Remember where you've seen that?  I haven't seen the $2M figure myself, but it's not a wild-*** figure.  If Canada does pay that range of money per family/victim/whatever, I really hope Iran'll be paying that back.  Fingers crossed ...
“The risk of insult is the price of clarity.” -- Roy H. Williams

The words I share here are my own, not those of anyone else or anybody I may be affiliated with.

Tony Prudori
MILNEWS.ca - Twitter

Offline mariomike

  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Legend
  • *
  • 553,435
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 10,684
    • The job.
Re: 8 Jan 2020: UKR Airliner shot down in Tehran
« Reply #146 on: January 18, 2020, 16:44:53 »
I read somewhere families might get compensated up to $2million from Canada.


"The outlay will cost just over $2 million to the government."
https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/newsalert-canada-to-compensate-families-25000-for-canadian-victims-who-died-on-flight-ps752

Total combined.


Offline milnews.ca

  • Info Curator, Baker & Food Slut
  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Relic
  • *
  • 454,015
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 22,909
    • MILNEWS.ca-Military News for Canadians
“The risk of insult is the price of clarity.” -- Roy H. Williams

The words I share here are my own, not those of anyone else or anybody I may be affiliated with.

Tony Prudori
MILNEWS.ca - Twitter

Offline Jarnhamar

  • Army.ca Legend
  • *****
  • 350,526
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 12,158
Re: 8 Jan 2020: UKR Airliner shot down in Tehran
« Reply #148 on: January 19, 2020, 08:19:44 »
Thanks for that!

It was on another forum but looks like it was bad info. (Thanks for the link and correction MM).


Speaking of compensation I was reading  there were a few GoFundMe pages that got squashed because they referenced the Middle East and Iran. Also sanctions against Iran seem to play a part in raising money for Canadians.

There are no wolves on Fenris

Offline Hamish Seggie

  • Army.ca Legend
  • *****
  • 244,047
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 10,858
  • This is my son Michael, KIA Afghanistan 3 Sep 08
Re: 8 Jan 2020: UKR Airliner shot down in Tehran
« Reply #149 on: January 21, 2020, 12:28:05 »
I’ve read Iran is asking for the equipment to download the black boxes. Good luck with that.
Freedom Isn't Free   "Never Shall I Fail My Brothers"

“Do everything that is necessary and nothing that is not".