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Offline Milnet.ca

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Re: Maintaining the status quo
« on: September 23, 2002, 22:01:00 »
Posted by Jean-Francois Menicucci <menicucci@videotron.ca> on Wed, 21 Mar 2001 12:48:19 -0500
--------------4963E32E4D06AD79B8809501
I read two versions in the newspapers today and yesterday,
In the "journal de mtl"  ok!!1 not a good source of infos " they
claimed that the
combats unit will be reduce from 10000 to 2000, and today I read that we
gonna get more money?
Where is the truth, I dont know? :
jf
Rob Ayres wrote:
> Looks like the chips are going to start falling again!Is it just me or
> does 624 million not seem like that much when you consider what the CF
> is asked to do?Are they soon going to have to do more with even
> less?What is it going to take for the Canadian public to wake up and
> support the most honourable, hard working people in the country?I‘m
> inches away from making my own placards and lawn signs tearing a strip
> out of the media for demoralising the Canadian Forces, and the country
> in general, for no good reason. Am I the only one that sees the media
> as the primary culprit in this travesty of ignorant public opinion?
> Probably not.This has to stop and I for one am tired of feeling
> helpless in the face of sharp pencilled jack asses who have no real
> insight with regard to the Forces and their difficult and dangerous
> job. Do we have an option? Is there any way to counter the media?I
> know I‘m ranting here but this pisses me off and I‘m soooo tired of
> being apathetic with regard to the media. But, short of bitching on
> this list, I‘m not sure what any of us can do to turn back this tide
> of misrepresentation, irresponsible journalism and spin artistry.To me
> the ignorance of the typical Canadian journalist is akin to the career
> teacher who told me "it‘s a rough world out there!".....having never
> actually been "out there" or away from educational institutions to
> know anything about the "real world" other than what they read.Are we
> becoming a society of over educated idiots whose only opinions are
> those espoused by our current newspaper? It can happen. It seems it
> may have already.Sorry but stamping my feet just wasn‘t
> working.........I feel much better now.RA
>
>      ----- Original Message -----
>      From: Harwood, Steve
>      To: ‘army-list@CdnArmy.ca‘
>      Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 8:01 AM
>      Subject: News of the day
>       Good morning everyone....here is the news of the day.
>
>      Steve
>
>       http://www.slam.ca/CNEWSTopNews/min_mar20-cp.html
>
>
>      CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE:  This message contains information
>      which may be privileged, confidential or exempt or
>      prohibited from disclosure under applicable law.  If the
>      reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or the
>      employee or agent responsible for delivering the message to
>      the intended recipient, you are hereby NOTIFIED that any
>      dissemination, distribution, retention, archiving or copying
>      of this message and/or the contents thereof is strictly
>      prohibited.  If you have received this message in error or
>      in contravention of the above, please notify the sender
>      immediately by return e-mail.
>
--------------4963E32E4D06AD79B8809501
I read two versions in the newspapers today and yesterday,
In the "journal de mtl"  ok!!1 not a good source of infos " they
claimed that the
combats unit will be reduce from 10000 to 2000, and today I read that
we gonna get more money?
Where is the truth, I dont know? :
jf
Rob Ayres wrote:
Looks
like the chips are going to start falling again!Is
it just me or does 624 million not seem like that much when you consider
what the CF is asked to do?Are they soon going
to have to do more with even less?What
is it going to take for the Canadian public to wake up and support the
most honourable, hard working people in the country?I‘m
inches away from making my own placards and lawn signs tearing a strip
out of the media for demoralising the Canadian Forces, and the country
in general, for no good reason. Am I the only one that sees the media as
the primary culprit in this travesty of ignorant public opinion? Probably
not.This has to stop and I for one am tired of
feeling helpless in the face of sharp pencilled jack asses who have no
real insight with regard to the Forces and their difficult and dangerous
job. Do we have an option? Is there any way to counter the media?I
know I‘m ranting here but this pisses me off and I‘m soooo tired of being
apathetic with regard to the media. But, short of bitching on this list,
I‘m not sure what any of us can do to turn back this tide of misrepresentation,
irresponsible journalism and spin artistry.To
me the ignorance of the typical Canadian journalist is akin to the career
teacher who told me "it‘s a rough world out there!".....having never actually
been "out there" or away from educational institutions to know anything
about the "real world" other than what they read.Are
we becoming a society of over educated idiots whose only opinions are those
espoused by our current newspaper? It can happen. It seems it may have
already.Sorry but stamping my feet just wasn‘t
working.........I feel much better now.RA
----- Original Message -----
From:
Harwood,
Steve
To: ‘army-list@CdnArmy.ca‘
Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 8:01
AM
Subject: News of the day
Good morning everyone....here is the news of the day.
Steve
 http://www.slam.ca/CNEWSTopNews/min_mar20-cp.html
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE:
This message contains information which may be privileged, confidential
or exempt or prohibited from disclosure under applicable law. If
the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or the employee
or agent responsible for delivering the message to the intended recipient,
you are hereby NOTIFIED that
any dissemination, distribution, retention, archiving or copying of this
message and/or the contents thereof is strictly prohibited. If you
have received this message in error or in contravention of the above, please
notify the sender immediately by return e-mail.
--------------4963E32E4D06AD79B8809501--
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Offline Milnet.ca

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Re: Maintaining the status quo
« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2002, 22:01:00 »
Posted by "Jay Digital" <todesengel@home.com> on Wed, 21 Mar 2001 13:40:26 -0500
I think what we have to ask ourselves is where is the money for
increased military spending going to come from. Don‘t get me wrong, I
really wish the CF would start to get funding comparable to that of our
allies but I just don‘t see where they‘re going to get the money from.
I don‘t think cutting transfer payments to the provinces would go over
to well considering the health care and education crisis that seems to
be always popping up. I also don‘t think the Canadian public would be
too happy about tax increases.
So, and I don‘t mean this sarcastically, where will the money come
from? I‘d be happy to hear any ideas on this.
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Jean-Francois Menicucci
  To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
  Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 12:48 PM
  Subject: Re: Maintaining the status quo
  I read two versions in the newspapers today and yesterday,
  In the "journal de mtl"  ok!!1 not a good source of infos " they
claimed that the
  combats unit will be reduce from 10000 to 2000, and today I read that
we gonna get more money?
  Where is the truth, I dont know? :
  jf
  Rob Ayres wrote:
    Looks like the chips are going to start falling again!Is it just me
or does 624 million not seem like that much when you consider what the
CF is asked to do?Are they soon going to have to do more with even
less?What is it going to take for the Canadian public to wake up and
support the most honourable, hard working people in the country?I‘m
inches away from making my own placards and lawn signs tearing a strip
out of the media for demoralising the Canadian Forces, and the country
in general, for no good reason. Am I the only one that sees the media as
the primary culprit in this travesty of ignorant public opinion?
Probably not.This has to stop and I for one am tired of feeling helpless
in the face of sharp pencilled jack asses who have no real insight with
regard to the Forces and their difficult and dangerous job. Do we have
an option? Is there any way to counter the media?I know I‘m ranting here
but this pisses me off and I‘m soooo tired of being apathetic with
regard to the media. But, short of bitching on this list, I‘m not sure
what any of us can do to turn back this tide of misrepresentation,
irresponsible journalism and spin artistry.To me the ignorance of the
typical Canadian journalist is akin to the career teacher who told me
"it‘s a rough world out there!".....having never actually been "out
there" or away from educational institutions to know anything about the
"real world" other than what they read.Are we becoming a society of over
educated idiots whose only opinions are those espoused by our current
newspaper? It can happen. It seems it may have already.Sorry but
stamping my feet just wasn‘t working.........I feel much better now.RA
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Harwood, Steve
      To: ‘army-list@CdnArmy.ca‘
      Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 8:01 AM
      Subject: News of the day
       Good morning everyone....here is the news of the day.
      Steve
       http://www.slam.ca/CNEWSTopNews/min_mar20-cp.html
       
      CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE:  This message contains information which may
be privileged, confidential or exempt or prohibited from disclosure
under applicable law.  If the reader of this message is not the intended
recipient, or the employee or agent responsible for delivering the
message to the intended recipient, you are hereby NOTIFIED that any
dissemination, distribution, retention, archiving or copying of this
message and/or the contents thereof is strictly prohibited.  If you have
received this message in error or in contravention of the above, please
notify the sender immediately by return e-mail.
I think what we have
to ask
ourselves is where is the money for increased military spending going to
come
from. Don‘t get me wrong, I really wish the CF would start to get
funding
comparable to that of our allies but I just don‘t see where they‘re
going to get
the money from.
I don‘t think cutting
transfer
payments to the provinces would go over to well considering the health
care and
education crisis that seems to be always popping up. I also don‘t think
the
Canadian public would be too happy about tax increases.
So, and I don‘t mean
this
sarcastically, where will the money come from? I‘d be happy to hear any
ideas
on this.
  ----- Original Message -----
  From:
  Jean-Francois Menicucci
  To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
  Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001
12:48
  PM
  Subject: Re: Maintaining the
status
  quo
  I read two versions in the newspapers today and
yesterday,
  In the "journal de mtl"  ok!!1 not a good source of infos " they
claimed
  that the combats unit will be reduce from 10000 to 2000, and today
I read
  that we gonna get more money? Where is the truth, I dont know? :
  jf
  Rob Ayres wrote:
 
   
    Looks like the chips are going to
start
    falling again!Is it just me or does
624
    million not seem like that much when you consider what the CF is
asked to
    do?Are they soon going to have to do more
with
    even less?What is it going to take
for the
    Canadian public to wake up and support the most honourable, hard
working
    people in the country?I‘m inches away from
making my
    own placards and lawn signs tearing a strip out of the media for
    demoralising the Canadian Forces, and the country in general, for no
good
    reason. Am I the only one that sees the media as the primary culprit
in this
    travesty of ignorant public opinion? Probably not.This has to stop and I for one am tired of feeling
helpless in
    the face of sharp pencilled jack asses who have no real insight with
regard
    to the Forces and their difficult and dangerous job. Do we have an
option?
    Is there any way to counter the media?I
know I‘m
    ranting here but this pisses me off and I‘m soooo tired of being
apathetic
    with regard to the media. But, short of bitching on this list, I‘m
not sure
    what any of us can do to turn back this tide of misrepresentation,
    irresponsible journalism and spin artistry.To me the
    ignorance of the typical Canadian journalist is akin to the career
teacher
    who told me "it‘s a rough world out there!".....having never
actually been
    "out there" or away from educational institutions to know anything
about the
    "real world" other than what they read.Are
we
    becoming a society of over educated idiots whose only opinions are
those
    espoused by our current newspaper? It can happen. It seems it may
have
    already.Sorry but stamping my feet just
wasn‘t
    working.........I feel much better now.RA
   
      ----- Original Message -----
      From:
      Harwood,
      Steve
      To: ‘army-list@CdnArmy.ca‘
      Sent: Wednesday, March 21,
2001 8:01
      AM
      Subject: News of the
      dayGood morning everyone....here is
the news of
      the day.
      Steve
       http://www.sla
m.ca/CNEWSTopNews/min_mar20-cp.html
     
      CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE:
      This message contains information which may be privileged,
confidential or
      exempt or prohibited from disclosure under applicable law.
If the
      reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or the
employee or
      agent responsible for delivering the message to the intended
recipient,
      you are hereby NOTIFIED that any dissemination, distribution, retention,
archiving or
      copying of this message and/or the contents thereof is strictly
      prohibited. If you have received this message in error or in
      contravention of the above, please notify the sender immediately
by return
     
e-mail.
--------------------------------------------------------
NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
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Offline Milnet.ca

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Re: Maintaining the status quo
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2002, 22:01:00 »
Posted by "Jean-Francois Menicucci menJ7603***" <menicucci@nd.edu> on Wed, 21 Mar 2001 14:09:29 -0500
--------------A9ADE56608F939CD01519783
Joke: I have an idea increase 50 taxes on Cigarettes! :o
sure my mom will like that idea!
LOL
Jay Digital wrote:
>  I think what we have to ask ourselves is where is the money for
> increased military spending going to come from. Don‘t get me wrong, I
> really wish the CF would start to get funding comparable to that of
> our allies but I just don‘t see where they‘re going to get the money
> from. I don‘t think cutting transfer payments to the provinces would
> go over to well considering the health care and education crisis that
> seems to be always popping up. I also don‘t think the Canadian public
> would be too happy about tax increases. So, and I don‘t mean this
> sarcastically, where will the money come from? I‘d be happy to hear
> any ideas on this.
>
>      ----- Original Message -----
>      From: Jean-Francois Menicucci
>      To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
>      Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 12:48 PM
>      Subject: Re: Maintaining the status quo
>       I read two versions in the newspapers today and yesterday,
>      In the "journal de mtl"  ok!!1 not a good source of infos
>      " they claimed that the
>      combats unit will be reduce from 10000 to 2000, and today I
>      read that we gonna get more money?
>      Where is the truth, I dont know? :
>
>      jf
>
>      Rob Ayres wrote:
>
>     > Looks like the chips are going to start falling again!Is
>     > it just me or does 624 million not seem like that much
>     > when you consider what the CF is asked to do?Are they soon
>     > going to have to do more with even less?What is it going
>     > to take for the Canadian public to wake up and support the
>     > most honourable, hard working people in the country?I‘m
>     > inches away from making my own placards and lawn signs
>     > tearing a strip out of the media for demoralising the
>     > Canadian Forces, and the country in general, for no good
>     > reason. Am I the only one that sees the media as the
>     > primary culprit in this travesty of ignorant public
>     > opinion? Probably not.This has to stop and I for one am
>     > tired of feeling helpless in the face of sharp pencilled
>     > jack asses who have no real insight with regard to the
>     > Forces and their difficult and dangerous job. Do we have
>     > an option? Is there any way to counter the media?I know
>     > I‘m ranting here but this pisses me off and I‘m soooo
>     > tired of being apathetic with regard to the media. But,
>     > short of bitching on this list, I‘m not sure what any of
>     > us can do to turn back this tide of misrepresentation,
>     > irresponsible journalism and spin artistry.To me the
>     > ignorance of the typical Canadian journalist is akin to
>     > the career teacher who told me "it‘s a rough world out
>     > there!".....having never actually been "out there" or away
>     > from educational institutions to know anything about the
>     > "real world" other than what they read.Are we becoming a
>     > society of over educated idiots whose only opinions are
>     > those espoused by our current newspaper? It can happen. It
>     > seems it may have already.Sorry but stamping my feet just
>     > wasn‘t working.........I feel much better now.RA
>     >
>     >      ----- Original Message -----
>     >      From: Harwood, Steve
>     >      To: ‘army-list@CdnArmy.ca‘
>     >      Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 8:01 AM
>     >      Subject: News of the day
>     >       Good morning everyone....here is the news of
>     >      the day.
>     >
>     >      Steve
>     >
>     >
>     >      ttp://www.slam.ca/CNEWSTopNews/min_mar20-cp.html
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     >      CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE:  This message contains
>     >      information which may be privileged,
>     >      confidential or exempt or prohibited from
>     >      disclosure under applicable law.  If the reader
>     >      of this message is not the intended recipient,
>     >      or the employee or agent responsible for
>     >      delivering the message to the intended
>     >      recipient, you are hereby NOTIFIED that any
>     >      dissemination, distribution, retention,
>     >      archiving or copying of this message and/or the
>     >      contents thereof is strictly prohibited.  If you
>     >      have received this message in error or in
>     >      contravention of the above, please notify the
>     >      sender immediately by return e-mail.
>     >
--------------A9ADE56608F939CD01519783
Joke: I have an idea increase 50 taxes on Cigarettes! :o
sure my mom will like that idea!
LOL
Jay Digital wrote:
I
think what we have to ask ourselves is where is the money for increased
military spending going to come from. Don‘t get me wrong, I really wish
the CF would start to get funding comparable to that of our allies but
I just don‘t see where they‘re going to get the money from.I
don‘t think cutting transfer payments to the provinces would go over to
well considering the health care and education crisis that seems to be
always popping up. I also don‘t think the Canadian public would be too
happy about tax increases.So,
and I don‘t mean this sarcastically, where will the money come from?
I‘d be happy to hear any ideas on this.
----- Original Message -----
From:
Jean-Francois
Menicucci
To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 12:48
PM
Subject: Re: Maintaining the status
quo
I read two versions in the newspapers today and yesterday,
In the "journal de mtl"  ok!!1 not a good source of infos " they
claimed that the
combats unit will be reduce from 10000 to 2000, and today I read that
we gonna get more money?
Where is the truth, I dont know? :
jf
Rob Ayres wrote:
Looks
like the chips are going to start falling again!Is it just me or
does 624 million not seem like that much when you consider what the CF
is asked to do?Are they soon going to have to do more with even less?What
is it going to take for the Canadian public to wake up and support the
most honourable, hard working people in the country?I‘m inches away from
making my own placards and lawn signs tearing a strip out of the media
for demoralising the Canadian Forces, and the country in general, for no
good reason. Am I the only one that sees the media as the primary culprit
in this travesty of ignorant public opinion? Probably not.This has to stop
and I for one am tired of feeling helpless in the face of sharp pencilled
jack asses who have no real insight with regard to the Forces and their
difficult and dangerous job. Do we have an option? Is there any way to
counter the media?I know I‘m ranting here but this pisses me off and I‘m
soooo tired of being apathetic with regard to the media. But, short of
bitching on this list, I‘m not sure what any of us can do to turn back
this tide of misrepresentation, irresponsible journalism and spin artistry.To
me the ignorance of the typical Canadian journalist is akin to the career
teacher who told me "it‘s a rough world out there!".....having never actually
been "out there" or away from educational institutions to know anything
about the "real world" other than what they read.Are we becoming a society
of over educated idiots whose only opinions are those espoused by our current
newspaper? It can happen. It seems it may have already.Sorry but stamping
my feet just wasn‘t working.........I feel much better now.RA
----- Original Message -----
From:
Harwood,
Steve
To: ‘army-list@CdnArmy.ca‘
Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 8:01
AM
Subject: News of the day
Good morning everyone....here is the news of the day.
Steve
 http://www.slam.ca/CNEWSTopNews/min_mar20-cp.html
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE:
This message contains information which may be privileged, confidential
or exempt or prohibited from disclosure under applicable law. If
the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or the employee
or agent responsible for delivering the message to the intended recipient,
you are hereby NOTIFIED that
any dissemination, distribution, retention, archiving or copying of this
message and/or the contents thereof is strictly prohibited. If you
have received this message in error or in contravention of the above, please
notify the sender immediately by return e-mail.
--------------A9ADE56608F939CD01519783--
--------------------------------------------------------
NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
message body.

Offline Milnet.ca

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Re: Maintaining the status quo
« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2002, 22:04:00 »
Posted by "Ian Edwards" <iedwards@home.com> on Wed, 21 Mar 2001 13:48:32 -0700
News of the day"We" the converted have a long way to go to make the
Canadian public aware of what the CF is required to do. Consider this
example:
A couple of days ago I flicked on the TV, to the Canadian Comedy Channel
or whatever it‘s called. A fat middle aged, self-important comedian
was in the middle of his monolog on stage probably in Montreal, but
whereever .... The first part I caught was his rant about the CF,
something like ".... and why do we need the CF? Who‘s going to invade
Canada? The Swedes? ..." and as he was chuckling at his own sense of
humour the camera panned the audience, which were all laughing of
course. He went on, but it didn‘t get any better.
A study done about 12 years ago estimated that the average North
American well, actually, it was a U.S. study was exposed to 3000
commercial "hits" per day. That included billboards, transit ads, print
media, radio ads, TV commercials, etc. etc. etc. And my guess is that
the number of "hits" per day has gone up perhaps 25-50 since then. So
what? Well, how does anyone get their message out in all this chatter?
I don‘t know the answer. I wish Reserves 2000 had the answer. They seem
to be just about our only hope. So far they are just a group of retired
Militia colonels and current Honoraries, but I understand they are
looking for former and current Sergeants and subalterns to swell their
ranks and get their messages out. Up here in Edmonton the "touch" to
join was $100. so I passed - I guess that I believe as long as it
doesn‘t hurt my wallet too much.  Any other group, such as the CDA,
doesn‘t seem to focus on other than getting things done thru The Old Boy
Net and that doesn‘t really cut it with politicians, who, as expected,
react to the will of the people asleep as they are rather than be
LEADERS. I will give Reserves 2000 credit, they have at least enunciated
the needs and solutions to the PRes place in the context of over all
Defence policy. But, so far, no one is listening.
For those who have been on this notice board for some time, please
pardon my semi-annual rant on this subject. I make no apologies for the
context of my message.
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Rob Ayres
  To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
  Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 10:05 AM
  Subject: Maintaining the status quo
  Looks like the chips are going to start falling again!
  Is it just me or does 624 million not seem like that much when you
consider what the CF is asked to do?
  Are they soon going to have to do more with even less?
  What is it going to take for the Canadian public to wake up and
support the most honourable, hard working people in the country?
  I‘m inches away from making my own placards and lawn signs tearing a
strip out of the media for demoralising the Canadian Forces, and the
country in general, for no good reason. Am I the only one that sees the
media as the primary culprit in this travesty of ignorant public
opinion? Probably not.
  This has to stop and I for one am tired of feeling helpless in the
face of sharp pencilled jack asses who have no real insight with regard
to the Forces and their difficult and dangerous job. Do we have an
option? Is there any way to counter the media?
  I know I‘m ranting here but this pisses me off and I‘m soooo tired of
being apathetic with regard to the media. But, short of bitching on this
list, I‘m not sure what any of us can do to turn back this tide of
misrepresentation, irresponsible journalism and spin artistry.
  To me the ignorance of the typical Canadian journalist is akin to the
career teacher who told me "it‘s a rough world out there!".....having
never actually been "out there" or away from educational institutions to
know anything about the "real world" other than what they read.
  Are we becoming a society of over educated idiots whose only opinions
are those espoused by our current newspaper? It can happen. It seems it
may have already.
  Sorry but stamping my feet just wasn‘t working.........I feel much
better now.
  RA
    ----- Original Message -----
    From: Harwood, Steve
    To: ‘army-list@CdnArmy.ca‘
    Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 8:01 AM
    Subject: News of the day
    Good morning everyone....here is the news of the day.
    Steve
     http://www.slam.ca/CNEWSTopNews/min_mar20-cp.html
    CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE:  This message contains information which may
be privileged, confidential or exempt or prohibited from disclosure
under applicable law.  If the reader of this message is not the intended
recipient, or the employee or agent responsible for delivering the
message to the intended recipient, you are hereby NOTIFIED that any
dissemination, distribution, retention, archiving or copying of this
message and/or the contents thereof is strictly prohibited.  If you have
received this message in error or in contravention of the above, please
notify the sender immediately by return e-mail.
News of the day
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
"We" the converted have a long way to
go to make
the Canadian public aware of what the CF is required to do. Consider
this
example:
A couple of days ago I flicked on the
TV, to the
Canadian Comedy Channel or whatever it‘s called. A fat middle aged,
self-important comedian was in the middle of his monolog on stage
probably in
Montreal, but whereever .... The first part I caught was his rant about
the CF,
something like ".... and why do we need the CF? Who‘s going to invade
Canada?
The Swedes? ..." and as he was chuckling at his own sense of humour the
camera
panned the audience, which were all laughing of course. He went on, but
it
didn‘t get any better.
A study done about 12 years ago
estimated that the
average North American well, actually, it was a U.S. study was exposed
to 3000
commercial "hits" per day. That included billboards, transit ads, print
media,
radio ads, TV commercials, etc. etc. etc. And my guess is that the
number of
"hits" per day has gone up perhaps 25-50 since then. So what? Well,
how does
anyone get their message out in all this chatter?
I don‘t know the answer. I wish
Reserves 2000 had
the answer. They seem to be just about our only hope. So far they are
just a
group of retired Militia colonels and current Honoraries, but I
understand they
are looking for former and current Sergeants and subalterns to swell
their
ranks and get their messages out. Up here in Edmonton the "touch" to
join was
$100. so I passed - I guess that I believe as long as it doesn‘t hurt my
wallet
too much. Any other group, such as the CDA, doesn‘t seem to focus
on other
than getting things done thru The Old Boy Net and that doesn‘t really
cut it
with politicians, who, as expected, react to the will of the people
asleep as
they are rather than be LEADERS. I will give Reserves 2000 credit, they
have at
least enunciated the needs and solutions to the PRes place in the
context of
over all Defence policy. But, so far, no one is listening.
For those who have been on this notice
board for
some time, please pardon my semi-annual rant on this subject. I make no
apologies for the context of my message.
  ----- Original Message -----
  From:
  Rob
  Ayres
  To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
  Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001
10:05
  AM
  Subject: Maintaining the status
quo
 
  Looks like the chips are going to
start falling
  again!
  Is it just me or does624 million not
seem like
  that much when you consider what the CF is asked to do?
  Are theysoon going to have to do more
with
  even less?
  What is it going to take for the Canadian
public to wake
  up and support the most honourable, hard working people in the
country?
 
  I‘m inches away from making my own placards
and lawn
  signs tearing a strip out of the media for demoralising the Canadian
Forces,
  and the country in general, for no good reason. Am I the only one that
sees
  the media as the primary culprit in this travesty of ignorant public
opinion?
  Probably not.
  This has to stop and I for one am tired of
feeling
  helpless in the face of sharp pencilled jack asses who have no real
insight
  with regard to the Forces and their difficult and dangerous job. Do we
have an
  option? Is there any way to counter the media?
  I know I‘m ranting here but this pisses me off
and I‘m
  soooo tired of being apathetic with regard to the media. But, short of
  bitching on this list, I‘m not sure what any of us can do toturn
back
  this tide of misrepresentation, irresponsible journalism and spin
  artistry.
  To methe ignorance of thetypical
Canadian
  journalist is akin to the career teacher who told me "it‘s a rough
world out
  there!".....having never actually been "out there" or away from
educational
  institutions to know anything about the "real world" other than what
they
  read.
  Are we becoming a society of over educated
idiots whose
  only opinions are those espoused byour current newspaper? It can
happen.
  It seems it may have already.
  Sorry but stamping my feet just wasn‘t
working.........I
  feel much better now.
  RA
 
    ----- Original Message -----
    From:
    Harwood,
    Steve
    To: ‘army-list@CdnArmy.ca‘
    Sent: Wednesday, March 21,
2001 8:01
    AM
    Subject: News of the
day
   
    Good morning everyone....here is the news of the
day.
   
    Steve
     http://www.slam.ca/CNEWSTopNews/min_mar20-cp.html
   
    CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE: This
    message contains information which may be privileged, confidential
or exempt
    or prohibited from disclosure under applicable law. If the
reader of
    this message is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent
    responsible for delivering the message to the intended recipient,
you are
    hereby NOTIFIED that any
    dissemination, distribution, retention, archiving or copying of this
message
    and/or the contents thereof is strictly prohibited. If you
have
    received this message in error or in contravention of the above,
please
    notify the sender immediately by return
e-mail.
--------------------------------------------------------
NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
message body.

Offline Milnet.ca

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Re: Maintaining the status quo
« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2002, 22:05:00 »
Posted by "Rob Ayres" <ayrzee_07@hotmail.com> on Wed, 21 Mar 2001 16:31:21 -0500
News of the dayNo apologies required in my opinion.
RA
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Ian Edwards
  To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
  Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 3:48 PM
  Subject: Re: Maintaining the status quo
  "We" the converted have a long way to go to make the Canadian public
aware of what the CF is required to do. Consider this example:
  A couple of days ago I flicked on the TV, to the Canadian Comedy
Channel or whatever it‘s called. A fat middle aged, self-important
comedian was in the middle of his monolog on stage probably in
Montreal, but whereever .... The first part I caught was his rant about
the CF, something like ".... and why do we need the CF? Who‘s going to
invade Canada? The Swedes? ..." and as he was chuckling at his own sense
of humour the camera panned the audience, which were all laughing of
course. He went on, but it didn‘t get any better.
  A study done about 12 years ago estimated that the average North
American well, actually, it was a U.S. study was exposed to 3000
commercial "hits" per day. That included billboards, transit ads, print
media, radio ads, TV commercials, etc. etc. etc. And my guess is that
the number of "hits" per day has gone up perhaps 25-50 since then. So
what? Well, how does anyone get their message out in all this chatter?
  I don‘t know the answer. I wish Reserves 2000 had the answer. They
seem to be just about our only hope. So far they are just a group of
retired Militia colonels and current Honoraries, but I understand they
are looking for former and current Sergeants and subalterns to swell
their ranks and get their messages out. Up here in Edmonton the "touch"
to join was $100. so I passed - I guess that I believe as long as it
doesn‘t hurt my wallet too much.  Any other group, such as the CDA,
doesn‘t seem to focus on other than getting things done thru The Old Boy
Net and that doesn‘t really cut it with politicians, who, as expected,
react to the will of the people asleep as they are rather than be
LEADERS. I will give Reserves 2000 credit, they have at least enunciated
the needs and solutions to the PRes place in the context of over all
Defence policy. But, so far, no one is listening.
  For those who have been on this notice board for some time, please
pardon my semi-annual rant on this subject. I make no apologies for the
context of my message.
    ----- Original Message -----
    From: Rob Ayres
    To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
    Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 10:05 AM
    Subject: Maintaining the status quo
    Looks like the chips are going to start falling again!
    Is it just me or does 624 million not seem like that much when you
consider what the CF is asked to do?
    Are they soon going to have to do more with even less?
    What is it going to take for the Canadian public to wake up and
support the most honourable, hard working people in the country?
    I‘m inches away from making my own placards and lawn signs tearing a
strip out of the media for demoralising the Canadian Forces, and the
country in general, for no good reason. Am I the only one that sees the
media as the primary culprit in this travesty of ignorant public
opinion? Probably not.
    This has to stop and I for one am tired of feeling helpless in the
face of sharp pencilled jack asses who have no real insight with regard
to the Forces and their difficult and dangerous job. Do we have an
option? Is there any way to counter the media?
    I know I‘m ranting here but this pisses me off and I‘m soooo tired
of being apathetic with regard to the media. But, short of bitching on
this list, I‘m not sure what any of us can do to turn back this tide of
misrepresentation, irresponsible journalism and spin artistry.
    To me the ignorance of the typical Canadian journalist is akin to
the career teacher who told me "it‘s a rough world out
there!".....having never actually been "out there" or away from
educational institutions to know anything about the "real world" other
than what they read.
    Are we becoming a society of over educated idiots whose only
opinions are those espoused by our current newspaper? It can happen. It
seems it may have already.
    Sorry but stamping my feet just wasn‘t working.........I feel much
better now.
    RA
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Harwood, Steve
      To: ‘army-list@CdnArmy.ca‘
      Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 8:01 AM
      Subject: News of the day
      Good morning everyone....here is the news of the day.
      Steve
       http://www.slam.ca/CNEWSTopNews/min_mar20-cp.html
      CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE:  This message contains information which may
be privileged, confidential or exempt or prohibited from disclosure
under applicable law.  If the reader of this message is not the intended
recipient, or the employee or agent responsible for delivering the
message to the intended recipient, you are hereby NOTIFIED that any
dissemination, distribution, retention, archiving or copying of this
message and/or the contents thereof is strictly prohibited.  If you have
received this message in error or in contravention of the above, please
notify the sender immediately by return e-mail.
News of the day
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
No apologies required in my
opinion.
RA
  ----- Original Message -----
  From:
  Ian
Edwards
 
  To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
  Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001
3:48
  PM
  Subject: Re: Maintaining the
status
  quo
 
  "We" the converted have a long way to
go to make
  the Canadian public aware of what the CF is required to do. Consider
this
  example:
 
  A couple of days ago I flicked on the
TV, to the
  Canadian Comedy Channel or whatever it‘s called. A fat middle aged,
  self-important comedian was in the middle of his monolog on stage
probably in
  Montreal, but whereever .... The first part I caught was his rant
about the
  CF, something like ".... and why do we need the CF? Who‘s going to
invade
  Canada? The Swedes? ..." and as he was chuckling at his own sense of
humour
  the camera panned the audience, which were all laughing of course. He
went on,
  but it didn‘t get any better.
 
  A study done about 12 years ago
estimated that
  the average North American well, actually, it was a U.S. study was
exposed
  to 3000 commercial "hits" per day. That included billboards, transit
ads,
  print media, radio ads, TV commercials, etc. etc. etc. And my guess is
that
  the number of "hits" per day has gone up perhaps 25-50 since then.
So what?
  Well, how does anyone get their message out in all this
chatter?
 
  I don‘t know the answer. I wish
Reserves 2000 had
  the answer. They seem to be just about our only hope. So far they are
just a
  group of retired Militia colonels and current Honoraries, but I
understand
  they are looking for former and current Sergeants and subalterns to
swell
  their ranks and get their messages out. Up here in Edmonton the
"touch" to
  join was $100. so I passed - I guess that I believe as long as it
doesn‘t hurt
  my wallet too much. Any other group, such as the CDA, doesn‘t
seem to
  focus on other than getting things done thru The Old Boy Net and that
doesn‘t
  really cut it with politicians, who, as expected, react to the will of
the
  people asleep as they are rather than be LEADERS. I will give
Reserves 2000
  credit, they have at least enunciated the needs and solutions to the
PRes
  place in the context of over all Defence policy. But, so far, no one
is
  listening.
 
  For those who have been on this
notice board for
  some time, please pardon my semi-annual rant on this subject. I make
no
  apologies for the context of my message.
 
 
    ----- Original Message -----
    From:
    Rob
    Ayres
    To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
    Sent: Wednesday, March 21,
2001 10:05
    AM
    Subject: Maintaining the
status
    quo
   
    Looks like the chips are going to
start falling
    again!
    Is it just me or does624 million not
seem like
    that much when you consider what the CF is asked to do?
    Are theysoon going to have to do more
with
    even less?
    What is it going to take for the Canadian
public to
    wake up and support the most honourable, hard working people in the
country?
   
    I‘m inches away from making my own placards
and lawn
    signs tearing a strip out of the media for demoralising the Canadian
Forces,
    and the country in general, for no good reason. Am I the only one
that sees
    the media as the primary culprit in this travesty of ignorant public
    opinion? Probably not.
    This has to stop and I for one am tired of
feeling
    helpless in the face of sharp pencilled jack asses who have no real
insight
    with regard to the Forces and their difficult and dangerous job. Do
we have
    an option? Is there any way to counter the media?
    I know I‘m ranting here but this pisses me
off and I‘m
    soooo tired of being apathetic with regard to the media. But, short
of
    bitching on this list, I‘m not sure what any of us can do
toturn back
    this tide of misrepresentation, irresponsible journalism and spin
    artistry.
    To methe ignorance of thetypical
Canadian
    journalist is akin to the career teacher who told me "it‘s a rough
world out
    there!".....having never actually been "out there" or away from
educational
    institutions to know anything about the "real world" other than what
they
    read.
    Are we becoming a society of over educated
idiots
    whose only opinions are those espoused byour current
newspaper? It can
    happen. It seems it may have already.
    Sorry but stamping my feet just wasn‘t
    working.........I feel much better now.
    RA
   
      ----- Original Message -----
      From:
      Harwood,
      Steve
      To: ‘army-list@CdnArmy.ca‘
      Sent: Wednesday, March 21,
2001 8:01
      AM
      Subject: News of the
day
     
      Good morning everyone....here is the news of the
      day.
      Steve
       http://www.slam.ca/CNEWSTopNews/min_mar20-cp.html
     
      CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE:
      This message contains information which may be privileged,
confidential or
      exempt or prohibited from disclosure under applicable law.
If the
      reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or the
employee or
      agent responsible for delivering the message to the intended
recipient,
      you are hereby NOTIFIED that any dissemination, distribution, retention,
archiving or
      copying of this message and/or the contents thereof is strictly
      prohibited. If you have received this message in error or in
      contravention of the above, please notify the sender immediately
by return
     
e-mail.
--------------------------------------------------------
NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
message body.

Offline Milnet.ca

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Re: Maintaining the status quo
« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2002, 22:10:00 »
Posted by "Joan O. Arc" <joan_o_arc@hotmail.com> on Thu, 22 Mar 2001 04:49:32 -0000
Rob,
Re: Are we becoming a society of over educated idiots whose only opinions
are those espoused by our current newspaper?
In a word, "yes". Especially where the military is concerned, I think,
because it is too such a large extent "segregated" from the rest of Cdn.
society see Eric‘s earlier comments about the importance of "visibility" in
improving the CF‘s image and/or boosting recruitment efforts..
I mean, let‘s face it, unless you happen to live near a base or have someone
in your family who is/was active in the CF what are the chances you‘re ever
going to get a chance to interact with military personnel? The result is
that most people *do* get most of their information about the CF from
newspapers/TV, and the result of that is, well, misinformed idiots like me!
Cheers,
Joan
PS - On a related subject, I thought Ian‘s comment about the fact many "new
Canadians" come from parts of the world where soldiers are hated and/or
feared and/or mistrusted was an interesting explanation of at least part of
the CF‘s apparent "image problem" - one I had never thought about before, at
least. Maybe "Mayor Mel", and people like him, should find ridiculous
excuses - snow storms!! - to bring military personnel into immigrant-heavy
areas of the country more often. What better PR could you ask for than
shovelling snow? : - BTW, I don‘t really want to reopen the "Great
Blizzard Debate", unless someone else feels it‘s *really* necessary...
----Original Message Follows----
From: "Rob Ayres"
Reply-To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
To:
Subject: Maintaining the status quo
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 12:05:24 -0500
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at  http://www.hotmail.com.
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Offline Milnet.ca

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Re: Maintaining the status quo
« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2002, 22:12:00 »
Posted by "Jay Digital" <todesengel@home.com> on Thu, 22 Mar 2001 00:24:51 -0500
Perhaps the CF should start a more "interactive" training regime. I‘ve seen
a lot of television shows about Brit units marching straight through town
and the like. I think if the CF were to adopt that policy people would
become a lot more comfortable with the military in general.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joan O. Arc"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 11:49 PM
Subject: Re: Maintaining the status quo
> Rob,
>
> Re: Are we becoming a society of over educated idiots whose only opinions
> are those espoused by our current newspaper?
>
> In a word, "yes". Especially where the military is concerned, I think,
> because it is too such a large extent "segregated" from the rest of Cdn.
> society see Eric‘s earlier comments about the importance of "visibility"
in
> improving the CF‘s image and/or boosting recruitment efforts..
>
> I mean, let‘s face it, unless you happen to live near a base or have
someone
> in your family who is/was active in the CF what are the chances you‘re
ever
> going to get a chance to interact with military personnel? The result is
> that most people *do* get most of their information about the CF from
> newspapers/TV, and the result of that is, well, misinformed idiots like
me!
>
> Cheers,
>
> Joan
>
> PS - On a related subject, I thought Ian‘s comment about the fact many
"new
> Canadians" come from parts of the world where soldiers are hated and/or
> feared and/or mistrusted was an interesting explanation of at least part
of
> the CF‘s apparent "image problem" - one I had never thought about before,
at
> least. Maybe "Mayor Mel", and people like him, should find ridiculous
> excuses - snow storms!! - to bring military personnel into immigrant-heavy
> areas of the country more often. What better PR could you ask for than
> shovelling snow? : - BTW, I don‘t really want to reopen the "Great
> Blizzard Debate", unless someone else feels it‘s *really* necessary...
>
>
>
> ----Original Message Follows----
> From: "Rob Ayres"
> Reply-To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
> To:
> Subject: Maintaining the status quo
> Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 12:05:24 -0500
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at  http://www.hotmail.com.
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
> NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> message body.
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Offline Milnet.ca

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Re: Maintaining the status quo
« Reply #7 on: September 23, 2002, 22:13:00 »
Posted by "Ian Edwards" <iedwards@home.com> on Thu, 22 Mar 2001 00:02:11 -0700
Jay, I think you are on the right track. Actually, here in the Edmonton area
the Reg Force does quite a bit of training in built up areas near the city,
just north and and on the way to Wainwright. Not quite "on foot" but
motorized/mechanized in preparation for rotos to Bosnia, etc.
I‘ve been sitting here for 10 minutes trying to visualize what could be done
in a city like Edmonton to bring CFB Edmonton to the people. With no luck.
We‘ve got almost a complete full brigade group here minus just one infy bn
and the one arty regt when parts are not overseas. Put together in any one
place, say Commonwealth Stadium or the West Edmonton Mall and the sight
would be impressive. But, unfortunately, at any given time or civilian
event, the population is too small, too widely dispersed for this "show of
force" to be noticed by very many. Putting on some kind of event, a tattoo,
would be a waste of effort, as the ones who would attend would be people
like myself - not those who haven‘t had the exposure to the CF, the ones the
CF needs to reach.
Some old farts are always suggesting, "why not hold a parade, march down
Jasper Avenue". Well, actually, there is usually a good representation
during our summer‘s Klondyke Days parade, bands, Leopard tanks and other
AFVs and APCs, etc. But other than that, regulations would only permit
parades on Sundays in order to prevent traffic problems, and on a Sunday
such a parade wouldn‘t draw flies as downtowns are dead.
CFRC should get out more often, drawing on staff from other units if
necessary. Yes, I know they go to career days and other such hard sell
opportunities, but I don‘t see them in the shopping malls very often. They
should be used to just spread the word, as PR, not just for immediate gains
recruits. And yes, as someone pointed out, their offices should be open
some week nights and Saturdays too, but then that‘s asking too much for
civil servants in green suits. And why do people in office towers have to
wear combats - is that the CFs idea of "office casual" wear?
I think what has to happen is that the CF must reach the community "decision
makers". The professional people, senior local businessmen, higher ranking
civil servants, union leaders. The movers and shakers. Get them more on
board and watch the trickle down effect. Now, we do have one such group,
with a name something like Canadian Forces Reserve Liaison Council. It‘s the
group in Edmonton it consists of just one man I believe, a recent former
PRes CO who arranges business leaders‘ trips to Wainwright. Wow. Helicopter
flights and swanning around the field for a morning viewing the PRes in
action. All good stuff, I hasten to add, and effective in its small way. But
perhaps more needs to be done.
More? Well how about a proactive campaign to send out guest speakers to all
the professional groups, the accountants‘ society meetings CA, CMA, CGA,
the purchasing associations, HR groups,  the Rotary, and on and on too
numerous to mention. Can‘t they talk about "debits and credits in the CF" or
just "The PMAC and the CF" Purchasing Managment guys or something
inventive?  "Special Problems in Fleet Maintenance" to the trucking groups
by someone from EME.
Well, that would take care of Edmonton, Pembroke and Oromocto. How do you
reach Toronto and Vancouver? Test market the idea in Edmonton first. If it
works then the funds will come to send people elsewhere.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jay Digital
To:
Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 10:24 PM
Subject: Re: Maintaining the status quo
> Perhaps the CF should start a more "interactive" training regime. I‘ve
seen
> a lot of television shows about Brit units marching straight through town
> and the like. I think if the CF were to adopt that policy people would
> become a lot more comfortable with the military in general.
>
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Offline Milnet.ca

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Re: Maintaining the status quo
« Reply #8 on: September 23, 2002, 22:14:00 »
Posted by "Donald Schepens" <a.schepens@home.com> on Thu, 22 Mar 2001 07:33:03 -0700
The Canadian Forces Liaison Council CFLC has quite an active speakers
bureau.  Call you local Base or Reserve unit and someone will come out.
For those of you in Edmonton, 15 Service Battalion will be at Mill Woods
Town Centre this Sat for a display.
Don
----- Original Message -----
From: Ian Edwards
To:
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 12:02 AM
Subject: Re: Maintaining the status quo
> Jay, I think you are on the right track. Actually, here in the Edmonton
area
> the Reg Force does quite a bit of training in built up areas near the
city,
> just north and and on the way to Wainwright. Not quite "on foot" but
> motorized/mechanized in preparation for rotos to Bosnia, etc.
>
> I‘ve been sitting here for 10 minutes trying to visualize what could be
done
> in a city like Edmonton to bring CFB Edmonton to the people. With no luck.
> We‘ve got almost a complete full brigade group here minus just one infy
bn
> and the one arty regt when parts are not overseas. Put together in any
one
> place, say Commonwealth Stadium or the West Edmonton Mall and the sight
> would be impressive. But, unfortunately, at any given time or civilian
> event, the population is too small, too widely dispersed for this "show of
> force" to be noticed by very many. Putting on some kind of event, a
tattoo,
> would be a waste of effort, as the ones who would attend would be people
> like myself - not those who haven‘t had the exposure to the CF, the ones
the
> CF needs to reach.
>
> Some old farts are always suggesting, "why not hold a parade, march down
> Jasper Avenue". Well, actually, there is usually a good representation
> during our summer‘s Klondyke Days parade, bands, Leopard tanks and other
> AFVs and APCs, etc. But other than that, regulations would only permit
> parades on Sundays in order to prevent traffic problems, and on a Sunday
> such a parade wouldn‘t draw flies as downtowns are dead.
>
> CFRC should get out more often, drawing on staff from other units if
> necessary. Yes, I know they go to career days and other such hard sell
> opportunities, but I don‘t see them in the shopping malls very often. They
> should be used to just spread the word, as PR, not just for immediate
gains
> recruits. And yes, as someone pointed out, their offices should be open
> some week nights and Saturdays too, but then that‘s asking too much for
> civil servants in green suits. And why do people in office towers have to
> wear combats - is that the CFs idea of "office casual" wear?
>
> I think what has to happen is that the CF must reach the community
"decision
> makers". The professional people, senior local businessmen, higher ranking
> civil servants, union leaders. The movers and shakers. Get them more on
> board and watch the trickle down effect. Now, we do have one such group,
> with a name something like Canadian Forces Reserve Liaison Council. It‘s
the
> group in Edmonton it consists of just one man I believe, a recent former
> PRes CO who arranges business leaders‘ trips to Wainwright. Wow.
Helicopter
> flights and swanning around the field for a morning viewing the PRes in
> action. All good stuff, I hasten to add, and effective in its small way.
But
> perhaps more needs to be done.
>
> More? Well how about a proactive campaign to send out guest speakers to
all
> the professional groups, the accountants‘ society meetings CA, CMA, CGA,
> the purchasing associations, HR groups,  the Rotary, and on and on too
> numerous to mention. Can‘t they talk about "debits and credits in the CF"
or
> just "The PMAC and the CF" Purchasing Managment guys or something
> inventive?  "Special Problems in Fleet Maintenance" to the trucking groups
> by someone from EME.
>
> Well, that would take care of Edmonton, Pembroke and Oromocto. How do you
> reach Toronto and Vancouver? Test market the idea in Edmonton first. If it
> works then the funds will come to send people elsewhere.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jay Digital
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 10:24 PM
> Subject: Re: Maintaining the status quo
>
>
> > Perhaps the CF should start a more "interactive" training regime. I‘ve
> seen
> > a lot of television shows about Brit units marching straight through
town
> > and the like. I think if the CF were to adopt that policy people would
> > become a lot more comfortable with the military in general.
> >
>
>
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Offline Milnet.ca

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Re: Maintaining the status quo
« Reply #9 on: September 23, 2002, 22:15:00 »
Posted by "John Gow" <jgow@home.com> on Thu, 22 Mar 2001 19:52:42 -0500
Hello Ian
Back on road routine...Highway 401 @ 0630...so will try to be brief and yet
address this good issue...
If you want positive publicity, you do something positive.  Seems sort of
simple, doesn‘ it
So if Mayor Mel Lastman wants army back up for a Toronto snowstorm with
local troops and equipment?
If all else fails, why not do deliveries for Christmas "Secret Santa", meal
deliveries etc?  Some very positive social implications, the troops would be
happy to do it, the support agencies of the area would delight in the
action, and the cost would be peanuts.
What would the TV/radio stations do?  They‘d have no choice but to support
the ****  out of it.
And whether the troops were wearing Combats or DEU‘s with sashes, sabres,
Regimental regalia and medals, people would be behind it.
I happened to be in Calgary acouple years ago the last time the LDSH were
there for the Stampede parade and they went nuts in the street with
Leopards, and the crowds loved it.  Much good it did them...LDSH was gone
from the scene and that was that.
Personally, from a number of years of participating in Recruiting activity,
I think that time spent in the mall, with the mall rats, is a waste of time
and assets.  Been wrong the odd time before, perhaps now, perhaps not.  What
aspect of the mall rat did you find attractive?
The schools, colleges and campuses, approached in the manner you previously
indicated is addressing a segment that would be much more attractive to the
C...if only in my weak brained opinion.
Yes the tactics would be entirely different from Toronto to, say Hamilton,
let alone Edmonton but different from Edmonton "Boomsville for jobs from
St John‘s or Oromocto.  And so on.
So in my opinion, as thin as it is, would be that the CF Recruiting must
abandon itscenerist approach of a top down "National Program" and allow
creative thinking and initiatives at a local level, then collate and
distribte the successful methods across the country.
To lapse back to good old WWII, George Patton‘s Army was said to have one
strategist, and a few thousand tacticians...BECAUSE WINNING STRATEGIES ARE
BASED ON WINNING TACTICS.  And tactics are developed at a very low level
indeed.
Okay, gouted off, shoot me down folks.
John
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ian Edwards"
To:
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 2:02 AM
Subject: Re: Maintaining the status quo
> Jay, I think you are on the right track. Actually, here in the Edmonton
area
> the Reg Force does quite a bit of training in built up areas near the
city,
> just north and and on the way to Wainwright. Not quite "on foot" but
> motorized/mechanized in preparation for rotos to Bosnia, etc.
>
> I‘ve been sitting here for 10 minutes trying to visualize what could be
done
> in a city like Edmonton to bring CFB Edmonton to the people. With no luck.
> We‘ve got almost a complete full brigade group here minus just one infy
bn
> and the one arty regt when parts are not overseas. Put together in any
one
> place, say Commonwealth Stadium or the West Edmonton Mall and the sight
> would be impressive. But, unfortunately, at any given time or civilian
> event, the population is too small, too widely dispersed for this "show of
> force" to be noticed by very many. Putting on some kind of event, a
tattoo,
> would be a waste of effort, as the ones who would attend would be people
> like myself - not those who haven‘t had the exposure to the CF, the ones
the
> CF needs to reach.
>
> Some old farts are always suggesting, "why not hold a parade, march down
> Jasper Avenue". Well, actually, there is usually a good representation
> during our summer‘s Klondyke Days parade, bands, Leopard tanks and other
> AFVs and APCs, etc. But other than that, regulations would only permit
> parades on Sundays in order to prevent traffic problems, and on a Sunday
> such a parade wouldn‘t draw flies as downtowns are dead.
>
> CFRC should get out more often, drawing on staff from other units if
> necessary. Yes, I know they go to career days and other such hard sell
> opportunities, but I don‘t see them in the shopping malls very often. They
> should be used to just spread the word, as PR, not just for immediate
gains
> recruits. And yes, as someone pointed out, their offices should be open
> some week nights and Saturdays too, but then that‘s asking too much for
> civil servants in green suits. And why do people in office towers have to
> wear combats - is that the CFs idea of "office casual" wear?
>
> I think what has to happen is that the CF must reach the community
"decision
> makers". The professional people, senior local businessmen, higher ranking
> civil servants, union leaders. The movers and shakers. Get them more on
> board and watch the trickle down effect. Now, we do have one such group,
> with a name something like Canadian Forces Reserve Liaison Council. It‘s
the
> group in Edmonton it consists of just one man I believe, a recent former
> PRes CO who arranges business leaders‘ trips to Wainwright. Wow.
Helicopter
> flights and swanning around the field for a morning viewing the PRes in
> action. All good stuff, I hasten to add, and effective in its small way.
But
> perhaps more needs to be done.
>
> More? Well how about a proactive campaign to send out guest speakers to
all
> the professional groups, the accountants‘ society meetings CA, CMA, CGA,
> the purchasing associations, HR groups,  the Rotary, and on and on too
> numerous to mention. Can‘t they talk about "debits and credits in the CF"
or
> just "The PMAC and the CF" Purchasing Managment guys or something
> inventive?  "Special Problems in Fleet Maintenance" to the trucking groups
> by someone from EME.
>
> Well, that would take care of Edmonton, Pembroke and Oromocto. How do you
> reach Toronto and Vancouver? Test market the idea in Edmonton first. If it
> works then the funds will come to send people elsewhere.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jay Digital
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 10:24 PM
> Subject: Re: Maintaining the status quo
>
>
> > Perhaps the CF should start a more "interactive" training regime. I‘ve
> seen
> > a lot of television shows about Brit units marching straight through
town
> > and the like. I think if the CF were to adopt that policy people would
> > become a lot more comfortable with the military in general.
> >
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
> NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> message body.
--------------------------------------------------------
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Offline Milnet.ca

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Re: Maintaining the status quo
« Reply #10 on: September 23, 2002, 22:16:00 »
Posted by "The MacFarlanes‘" <desrtrat@amug.org> on Thu, 22 Mar 2001 20:05:08 -0700
Of course, my Unit sub-unit was in a small town 5,000 with an economy
that was pretty sparse, so the picture I paint is entirely different. Our
recruiting went in cycles, it seemed feast or famine. We did the malls, we
did the high schools. We pulled many of our recruits in from outlying areas.
I think it was easier to be visible in a small community. We comprised a
large part of the Remembrance Day parades, in a number of the small
communities around. On occasion we held a Volksmarch. We did a lot of our pt
runs, route marches, etc., around town. We held a levee at New Years, and
made sure the Mayor was invited - we attended the Town‘s. We had many guest
associate members at our Combined mess, and drew people from the local law
enforcement community, and others as well. We tried to put a vehicle in
every little rinky dink festival - "Turnip Days" "Old Home Week", the
"Brussel Sprouts parade, or whatever. We tried to hold "open houses" quite
often, and occasionally invite employers to a Field Weekend.
 I must say, and this relates to another recent thread, that our recruiting
headaches began, when they took the "responsibility" away from us, at the
Unit. Now, let me throw in a statement, before I go down this road. I truly
see the reasoning behind centralizing these activities, and creating and
maintaining standards. There was a lot of room for abuse, and lowering the
bar, in little outposts, such as Woodstock, NB. I feel we were lucky in that
respect, though, and turned out a pretty damned good quality soldier, as a
rule. I enlisted in 83, took my release in 96 - these are the only years I
can comment on. When I signed up, the Doc was local. The admin was completed
at a local level. The recruit course was run at the Unit. People knew the
Militia hired in September - we were in training, usually, by October. If
you couldn‘t make it, you were released. Sometime in the early 90s, IIRC,
the Recruiting Center was going to look after recruiting, and screening, and
processing. Folks had to drive to another city for medicals. Another place
for interviews. Then they had to wait until Xmas break, because the recruit
course had changed format, and had to be run in CFBG. We started having a
million problems with shoving people through the process. Now, all that
being said.. take my comments in context... the old system seemed to work,
for my Unit, in my town. I can see hundreds of flaws in the old system, and
reasons why the change should have been better. I am simply relating my
opinions. One thing I thought we did wrong, and was a personal pet peeve -
we focused our efforts on High School kids. Kids who would get in, be around
2 or 3 years at most, and be gone. I always felt we should be including
older/more stable/more permanent citizens in our efforts. A beef, rightly or
wrongly, with a lot of folks in our Unit, was that many of our higher NCO
positions BSM,RSM, BQMS, MTNCO were held by regular force retirees.
Sometimes this was great, sometimes not. Regardless, it was our own fault in
a way, because we rarely had anybody stay in the Unit long enough to get the
courses, thus the promotion, thus the position. No employer legislation to
help employees get to courses, and structuring courses around students‘
vacations just added to the problem.
Enough ranting. I haven‘t said much for awhile, so you got 6 cents‘ worth,
instead of the usual 2.
Ubique
MacF
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ian Edwards"
To:
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 12:02 AM
Subject: Re: Maintaining the status quo
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Offline Milnet.ca

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Re: Maintaining the status quo
« Reply #11 on: September 23, 2002, 22:17:00 »
Posted by "John Gow" <jgow@home.com> on Thu, 22 Mar 2001 22:41:35 -0500
That‘s really interesting, given my own experience in likewise
employment-challenged Saskatchewan, and subsequently in fat cat central
Canada.
And adds to, I believe, my point about a centralist policy of recruiting
across the country.  Waving flags in Quebec?  Offering man-days in Nfld?  Oh
God, the Rangers of Yukon/NWT/Nunavik?  or maintaining an equal and
unilateral standard, cross country, in interest of fairness?
Absolutely nothing against any of these "formed formations...", their local
circumstance, commanders or anything else...lets get out with taskings and
funding...which pretty much gets to the nitty gritty...doesn‘t it?
Note the recent thing on TV that we are sinking to two brigades versus
three...but there is little web traffic on that, so its no bother, I
guess...
And does not having CFRC do "all" the recruiting assure the PRes of "sucking
the hind tit" sorry for that allusion as they try to hit points for job
fulfillment read quota?
At risk of further political ostracism, "Whether yellow black or white"-and
I served with some damned good people who describe themselves as "red", I
greatly object to a "system" that discriminates according to a quota
requirement, that I don‘t get hired because I‘m not female, black, red,
yellow, disabled, etc etc...all the visible minority thing...but wait...that
would only be because there would be a central standard...you can do fifty
situps in a minute, twenty push ups, run a 5:30 mile whatever...when I was
in, at all ages, I could do that...but a ****  of a lot of suck-heads could
not yes Don, I ran it a lost faster......fine...just don‘t place them in
the same medically defined category as me...as in they are "unfit" for the
same duty.
So, yeah, desrtrat, you make some great sense!
Does the status quo?
I really don‘t think so...but you are asking the most politically
insensitive "person" on the whole www...
John
----- Original Message -----
From: "The MacFarlanes‘"
To:
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 10:05 PM
Subject: Re: Maintaining the status quo
> Of course, my Unit sub-unit was in a small town 5,000 with an economy
> that was pretty sparse, so the picture I paint is entirely different. Our
> recruiting went in cycles, it seemed feast or famine. We did the malls,
we
> did the high schools. We pulled many of our recruits in from outlying
areas.
> I think it was easier to be visible in a small community. We comprised a
> large part of the Remembrance Day parades, in a number of the small
> communities around. On occasion we held a Volksmarch. We did a lot of our
pt
> runs, route marches, etc., around town. We held a levee at New Years, and
> made sure the Mayor was invited - we attended the Town‘s. We had many
guest
> associate members at our Combined mess, and drew people from the local
law
> enforcement community, and others as well. We tried to put a vehicle in
> every little rinky dink festival - "Turnip Days" "Old Home Week", the
> "Brussel Sprouts parade, or whatever. We tried to hold "open houses" quite
> often, and occasionally invite employers to a Field Weekend.
>
>  I must say, and this relates to another recent thread, that our
recruiting
> headaches began, when they took the "responsibility" away from us, at the
> Unit. Now, let me throw in a statement, before I go down this road. I
truly
> see the reasoning behind centralizing these activities, and creating and
> maintaining standards. There was a lot of room for abuse, and lowering the
> bar, in little outposts, such as Woodstock, NB. I feel we were lucky in
that
> respect, though, and turned out a pretty damned good quality soldier, as a
> rule. I enlisted in 83, took my release in 96 - these are the only years I
> can comment on. When I signed up, the Doc was local. The admin was
completed
> at a local level. The recruit course was run at the Unit. People knew the
> Militia hired in September - we were in training, usually, by October. If
> you couldn‘t make it, you were released. Sometime in the early 90s, IIRC,
> the Recruiting Center was going to look after recruiting, and screening,
and
> processing. Folks had to drive to another city for medicals. Another place
> for interviews. Then they had to wait until Xmas break, because the
recruit
> course had changed format, and had to be run in CFBG. We started having a
> million problems with shoving people through the process. Now, all that
> being said.. take my comments in context... the old system seemed to work,
> for my Unit, in my town. I can see hundreds of flaws in the old system,
and
> reasons why the change should have been better. I am simply relating my
> opinions. One thing I thought we did wrong, and was a personal pet peeve -
> we focused our efforts on High School kids. Kids who would get in, be
around
> 2 or 3 years at most, and be gone. I always felt we should be including
> older/more stable/more permanent citizens in our efforts. A beef, rightly
or
> wrongly, with a lot of folks in our Unit, was that many of our higher NCO
> positions BSM,RSM, BQMS, MTNCO were held by regular force retirees.
> Sometimes this was great, sometimes not. Regardless, it was our own fault
in
> a way, because we rarely had anybody stay in the Unit long enough to get
the
> courses, thus the promotion, thus the position. No employer legislation to
> help employees get to courses, and structuring courses around students‘
> vacations just added to the problem.
>
> Enough ranting. I haven‘t said much for awhile, so you got 6 cents‘ worth,
> instead of the usual 2.
>
> Ubique
> MacF
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ian Edwards"
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 12:02 AM
> Subject: Re: Maintaining the status quo
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
> NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> message body.
>
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Offline Milnet.ca

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Re: Maintaining the status quo
« Reply #12 on: September 23, 2002, 22:24:00 »
Posted by Beth MacFarlane <elljay@nbnet.nb.ca> on Fri, 23 Mar 2001 09:00:24 -0400
Hey Marsh!
Is that 6 cents US or C?  I think you are right on about this!  Although I don‘t
recall the Brussel Sprouts Parade but there was something about Turnip
Queens.......hmmmmm!   Apparently, according to the Padre, recruiting is now on
the upswing locally.  Go figure!
Beth
The MacFarlanes‘ wrote:
> Of course, my Unit sub-unit was in a small town 5,000 with an economy
> that was pretty sparse, so the picture I paint is entirely different. Our
> recruiting went in cycles, it seemed feast or famine. We did the malls, we
> did the high schools. We pulled many of our recruits in from outlying areas.
> I think it was easier to be visible in a small community. We comprised a
> large part of the Remembrance Day parades, in a number of the small
> communities around. On occasion we held a Volksmarch. We did a lot of our pt
> runs, route marches, etc., around town. We held a levee at New Years, and
> made sure the Mayor was invited - we attended the Town‘s. We had many guest
> associate members at our Combined mess, and drew people from the local law
> enforcement community, and others as well. We tried to put a vehicle in
> every little rinky dink festival - "Turnip Days" "Old Home Week", the
> "Brussel Sprouts parade, or whatever. We tried to hold "open houses" quite
> often, and occasionally invite employers to a Field Weekend.
>
>  I must say, and this relates to another recent thread, that our recruiting
> headaches began, when they took the "responsibility" away from us, at the
> Unit. Now, let me throw in a statement, before I go down this road. I truly
> see the reasoning behind centralizing these activities, and creating and
> maintaining standards. There was a lot of room for abuse, and lowering the
> bar, in little outposts, such as Woodstock, NB. I feel we were lucky in that
> respect, though, and turned out a pretty damned good quality soldier, as a
> rule. I enlisted in 83, took my release in 96 - these are the only years I
> can comment on. When I signed up, the Doc was local. The admin was completed
> at a local level. The recruit course was run at the Unit. People knew the
> Militia hired in September - we were in training, usually, by October. If
> you couldn‘t make it, you were released. Sometime in the early 90s, IIRC,
> the Recruiting Center was going to look after recruiting, and screening, and
> processing. Folks had to drive to another city for medicals. Another place
> for interviews. Then they had to wait until Xmas break, because the recruit
> course had changed format, and had to be run in CFBG. We started having a
> million problems with shoving people through the process. Now, all that
> being said.. take my comments in context... the old system seemed to work,
> for my Unit, in my town. I can see hundreds of flaws in the old system, and
> reasons why the change should have been better. I am simply relating my
> opinions. One thing I thought we did wrong, and was a personal pet peeve -
> we focused our efforts on High School kids. Kids who would get in, be around
> 2 or 3 years at most, and be gone. I always felt we should be including
> older/more stable/more permanent citizens in our efforts. A beef, rightly or
> wrongly, with a lot of folks in our Unit, was that many of our higher NCO
> positions BSM,RSM, BQMS, MTNCO were held by regular force retirees.
> Sometimes this was great, sometimes not. Regardless, it was our own fault in
> a way, because we rarely had anybody stay in the Unit long enough to get the
> courses, thus the promotion, thus the position. No employer legislation to
> help employees get to courses, and structuring courses around students‘
> vacations just added to the problem.
>
> Enough ranting. I haven‘t said much for awhile, so you got 6 cents‘ worth,
> instead of the usual 2.
>
> Ubique
> MacF
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ian Edwards"
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 12:02 AM
> Subject: Re: Maintaining the status quo
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
> NOTE:  To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> message body.
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