Author Topic: Designated Marksman  (Read 32702 times)

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Offline KablooeyintheWest

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Designated Marksman
« on: October 05, 2005, 11:44:56 »
Does the CF have such a thing as a designated marksma (not a sniper). How does one go about taking courses in marksmanship, if there are any, and can reservists qualify on this. Does anyone have any suggestions of how to get practice on the C7 rifle? (We only actually fire it like once or twice a year, which isn't much practice to get really good at a weapon)

Offline George Wallace

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Re: Designated Marksman?
« Reply #1 on: October 05, 2005, 12:14:54 »
In a way there are 'Designated Marksmen', but nothing as glamorous as you think.  No 'special' courses.  Just being selected within a Section/Platoon/Unit as being the/one of the Best Shots and employed as such in any case that that unit sees fit.  In Riot Control, there are Designated Riflemen who will carry out Drills as Ordered should an incident escalate to the use of Deadly Force. 

On another note, you can qualify for your Marksmanship Badge during your PWT and have that qualification for a year, after which you have to qualify again.
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Offline kkwd

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Re: Designated Marksman?
« Reply #2 on: October 06, 2005, 23:41:50 »
You might want to contact the Dominion of Canada Rifle Association or one of the provincial associations.  I don't have experience with any of these groups, but you may want to check them out. Maybe other army.ca members may have an opinion they can share concerning these organizations.
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Offline KablooeyintheWest

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Re: Designated Marksman?
« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2005, 18:04:37 »
Hey, thanks a lot, i will check that out. By the way, does anyone have any information on these groups?

Offline rogi

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Re: Designated Marksman?
« Reply #4 on: October 09, 2005, 00:44:18 »
you can also get on to DP2A infantry platoon support weapons course.  part of the course is learning to coach firers to group and zero the c-7, and zeroing the c6, c9.  i took the course and it helped me to become a better shooter.

Offline MikeH

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Re: Designated Marksman?
« Reply #5 on: October 09, 2005, 01:49:02 »
Go buy a 556mm(223 Remington)ieAR15 or some other weapon type and just go to your local civilian range and shoot alot. Practice makes perfect!!! :bullet:
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Offline paracowboy

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Re: Designated Marksman?
« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2005, 11:05:53 »
Go buy a 556mm(223 Remington)ieAR15 or some other weapon type and just go to your local civilian range and shoot alot. Practice makes perfect!!!
actually, troop, save yourself several hundred dollars and go buy a .22 LR rifle. The marksmanship principle remain the same, no matter the firearm employed. The rifle will be vastly less expensive. You will not draw the unwanted attention of others fearing you to be some sort nut with a 'scary army gun'. The ammo is hugely cheaper, allowing you to buy more, thus shoot more. There is even less recoil than with a 5.56 mm (.223 cal.), and less muzzle flash, and less "bang!" preventing the formation of bad habits - flinching, blinking, etc.

Get a .22 LR rifle. Shoot. Shoot some more.
...time to cull the herd.

Offline Old Ranger

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Re: Designated Marksman?
« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2005, 11:20:47 »
Shoot. Shoot some more.

You could also start out with a Pellet gun, for basement shooting. Good practice for breathing and posture(s).

Don't get me wrong, if you have access to a range or back woods......22LR.
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Offline Britney Spears

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Re: Designated Marksman?
« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2005, 11:22:11 »
All the above posters are ROTL. The easiest way to become a designated marksman is to buy the biggest, blackest rifle scope you can find and swap it on to your rifle when your sect. commander isn't looking. An after market bipod wouldn't hurt, either, tie some scrim to your helmet and webbing, and don't forget the sunglasses too. When your picture shows up in the paper and on militaryphotos.net,  everyone on the planet will know EXACTLY who the designated marksman in your section is. 
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Offline Old Ranger

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Re: Designated Marksman?
« Reply #9 on: October 09, 2005, 11:25:33 »
All the above posters are ROTL. The easiest way to become a designated marksman is to buy the biggest, blackest rifle scope you can find and swap it on to your rifle when your sect. commander isn't looking. An after market bipod wouldn't hurt, either, tie some scrim to your helmet and webbing, and don't forget the sunglasses too. When your picture shows up in the paper and on militaryphotos.net,   everyone on the planet will know EXACTLY who the designated marksman in your section is.  

Fell of my chair, thanks...
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Pain is not a Right!, It's Earned!
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Offline KablooeyintheWest

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Re: Designated Marksman?
« Reply #10 on: October 14, 2005, 01:02:26 »
Ba ha ha ha. :P So would anyone else have any recommendations as to firearms I should invest in? Also, in the winnipeg region, what are some good ranges? does anyone know what i have to do to purchase a weapon, and registration and laws surrounding it, especcially and ar15. I personally don't find the bite of the c7 bad at all, nor its noise. I think i'd probablly prefer to train on a weapon as similiar weight and calibrewise.
RfnPhil
ps, what in the world does rotl mean??? ???

Offline kkwd

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Re: Designated Marksman?
« Reply #11 on: October 14, 2005, 03:41:51 »
The AR-15 is designated as a restricted weapon. You can find all the info on such weapons on the following link to the Canadian Firearms Centre.

http://www.cfc-cafc.gc.ca/info_for-renseignement/factsheets/restricted_e.asp

It will mention PAL on this page, you need one of those. To get a PAL you need some safety training. Then you need to think of a purpose you want the AR-15, target shooting in your case. You must provide proof that you have access to an approved range or shooting club. Then the CFO may approve your request and let you acquire the rifle. After you have it in your mitts you need a Authorization to Transport (ATT). This is a permit to take the rifle to a range. It used to be called a Permit to Carry, I guess that title is no longer acceptable. The ATT is only good for 1 location at a time and even has a section to tell the route you take to the range from your home. Another consideration is storage. You will need a good steel gun safe. A filing cabinet with a lock or one of those wooden racks won't do. I should mention verifiers, they will enter the chain of command as well, but don't worry about that, it is minor stuff.

There may be some stuff i have missed, feel free to check the firearms centre site, they have loads of info there.

PS ROTL - Right Out To Lunch
« Last Edit: October 14, 2005, 04:06:29 by kkwd »
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Offline sdimock

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Re: Designated Marksman?
« Reply #12 on: October 14, 2005, 12:46:41 »
So would anyone else have any recommendations as to firearms I should invest in?

Since you asked, 22 LR and shoot lots, spend your hard earned money on rounds not an AR15.

Myself and probably millions of other youngsters grew up shooting a Cooey .22 and I'm sure you could get one without breaking the bank.

The priciples of marksmanship are the same whether its a pistol or a sniper rifle.

I personally don't find the bite of the c7 bad at all, nor its noise. I think i'd probablly prefer to train on a weapon as similiar weight and calibrewise.

I don't know the specifics off the top of my head but a Cooey is similar in size to the C7.

Staying small calibre is a good idea, you could probably get an old 303 cheap as well but after 50 rounds your shoulder will try to convince you to stop.

You can shoot a 22 all day (if you have the rounds) and it won't hurt you, (you do need to keep aware of the barrel temperature).

As an aside the 22 isn't loud and if it's not a semi-automatic doesn't spit casings out as you fire, but I recommend ear plugs and safety glasses, protecting your eyes and ears is always a good call.

Chimo
« Last Edit: October 14, 2005, 13:21:45 by sdimock »
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Offline Old Ranger

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Re: Designated Marksman?
« Reply #13 on: October 14, 2005, 20:46:02 »
You can shoot a 22 all day (if you have the rounds) and it won't hurt you, (you do need to keep aware of the barrel temperature).

Not just the Barrel temp.  Semi-auto Cooey sears can't handle too much and tend to turn full auto.......No not cool, very Dangerous!
Some People are Dying to meet a Paramedic! Please Don't Drink and Drive!
Pain is not a Right!, It's Earned!
Don't let the Pain Hurt You, You Hurt the Pain!
Paramedics were created, because Firefighters need Hero's too.
I'll see your Jihad, and raise you a Crusade!...All In!
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Offline KablooeyintheWest

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Re: Designated Marksman?
« Reply #14 on: October 14, 2005, 22:16:55 »
Crazy
BTW, thanks for that web address. How often do reg force guys get to do live fire ex's?

Offline paracowboy

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Re: Designated Marksman?
« Reply #15 on: October 14, 2005, 23:14:06 »
How often do reg force guys get to do live fire ex's?
not nearly often enough. I have seen years where we have fired live twice. Once, being the test. "Odd, private Bloggins hasn't improved his scores at all since last year."
Gee, ya think?
Not that it makes me bitter, or anything.
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Offline MikeH

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Re: Designated Marksman?
« Reply #16 on: October 15, 2005, 01:30:04 »
I have a cooey .22 cal its so old it has no serial number. :o.As for saying about buying  AR15/ 223 it would be nice to shoot same caliber as the C7.I dont i shoot a 270 win and a .22cal  maybe 1 day.The only thing i dislike about .22 cal is the range its very limited its easier to shoot close than far.(So you can hit a tin can at 50 m can you hit it at 200.) :bullet:
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Offline MdB

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Re: Designated Marksman?
« Reply #17 on: October 15, 2005, 02:14:15 »
not nearly often enough. I have seen years where we have fired live twice. Once, being the test. "Odd, private Bloggins hasn't improved his scores at all since last year."
Gee, ya think?
Not that it makes me bitter, or anything.

Hmm, not bitter, but it's kinda depressing. How should infantry be professional with that few live training? How could they be confident in weapon handling? Hmm, now the brass and Gov't say that this is a very professional army. Some times, I think to myself, let's pretend, eh.
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Offline sdimock

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Re: Designated Marksman?
« Reply #18 on: October 15, 2005, 13:43:43 »
Not just the Barrel temp.   Semi-auto Cooey sears can't handle too much and tend to turn full auto.......No not cool, very Dangerous!

We had the one with bolt action so never hear of this problem, thanks for the info.

Hi MikeH,

The range is shorter but my experience has been that if you can consistantly hit a pop can at 50 M with the open site Cooey, getting a tight grouping with the C7 shouldn't be a problem.

Chimo
« Last Edit: October 15, 2005, 13:59:32 by sdimock »
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Offline paracowboy

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Re: Designated Marksman?
« Reply #19 on: October 15, 2005, 16:39:51 »
The range is shorter but my experience has been that if you can consistantly hit a pop can at 50 M with the open site Cooey, getting a tight grouping with the C7 shouldn't be a problem.
precisely. You're working on developing the principles, as both of us have stated in our posts. You can hit with open sights at 50 meters, you can hit with optics at 1000.
...time to cull the herd.

Offline KevinB

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Re: Designated Marksman?
« Reply #20 on: October 16, 2005, 12:39:38 »
para - any shooting over 300m needs a knowledge of reading wind

 I agree with cheap training (Pellet ot .22LR) but there is a limit to what you cant do -- Dry fire training is an EXCELLENT method as well - many high end competitive shooter state that 90% of your training shoud be dry (I'm not sure I agree with that) and they point to there is not bad rounds (misses or poor shots) in dry firing.

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Offline paracowboy

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Re: Designated Marksman?
« Reply #21 on: October 16, 2005, 12:54:23 »
para - any shooting over 300m needs a knowledge of reading wind
as well as an understanding of the balistics of the particular round you're employing, and a host of other factors. I was exaggerating to make a point in a humerous way. Evidently, I failed.

Quote
I agree with cheap training (Pellet ot .22LR) but there is a limit to what you cant do -- Dry fire training is an EXCELLENT method as well - many high end competitive shooter state that 90% of your training shoud be dry (I'm not sure I agree with that) and they point to there is not bad rounds (misses or poor shots) in dry firing.
as well, if you have the capability to re-load, you can make under-powered cartridges with wax bullets to shoot indoors. There are products on the market employing lasers that allow you to shoot in your home. There is a hand-grip device that allows you to practice trigger squeeze, release, and follow-through. Also, you can stick a pencil in the barrel of your weapon and aim at the wall (from an inch away). Everytime you "shoot," the pencil hits the wall. If you're steady,and following the marksmanship principle, the lead should hit in the same place, creating a single dot. Then, there's the old "coin balanced on the barrel" trick.

But, I still maintain that .22 LR is the single best calibre for practicing shooting.

...time to cull the herd.

Offline KevinB

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Re: Designated Marksman?
« Reply #22 on: October 16, 2005, 15:46:33 »
IF your on a budget.  ;)

 For my own value - Dont think anything can replace real rounds down range  DCRA Service Rifle and TR shooting will give the shooter a world of experience - for .mil shooters consider the F Class category of TR  300-900m events.
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Offline paracowboy

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Re: Designated Marksman?
« Reply #23 on: October 16, 2005, 17:32:24 »
IF your on a budget.  
even for hard-core shooters such as yourself. Go from grown-up guns to .22 LR once in a while, and you will pick up bad habits you're developing. You may surprise yourself.
...time to cull the herd.

Offline KevinB

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Re: Designated Marksman?
« Reply #24 on: October 16, 2005, 21:27:34 »
True
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